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Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates (Plus Barstow-Daggett)

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, May 20, 2013 4:45 AM

Triple-Tracking That Is NOT Triple-Tracking:  Is It a New “Ground Zero” for Cajon Pass?

Part “E” (of A-F)

So, what is the idea of a “Ground Zero”?

To satisfy monopoly concerns in the SP-UP merger of 1997, UP agreed to grant BNSF rights between Oakland, CA and Salt Lake City, UT, and Salt Lake City to Denver over the D&RGW Moffatt Tunnel route.

So, BNSF trains traverse the trackage through Moffatt Tunnel.


A more close-up view:


This very rocky and mountainous area around Moffatt Tunnel has greatly commercialized in the last 30 years.


It is K.P.’s understanding that such Oakland-Denver BNSF powered BNSF trains are crewed by UP trainmen and NOT BNSF’s own labor forces!

Most BNSF traffic from Northern California goes over Tehachapi to Barstow, and takes the Transcon to Chicago, and vice-versa.  Thus, the limited, token BNSF traffic over Donner Pass and the Feather River Canyon, and through the Rocky’s, to save exorbitant staffing costs with little return, BNSF contracts with UP to provide crews!  Apparently BNSF unionized trainmen see the wisdom in such an arrangement.

Continued in Part F

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, May 20, 2013 4:34 AM

Triple-Tracking That Is NOT Triple-Tracking:  Is It a New “Ground Zero” for Cajon Pass?

Part “D” (of A-F)

One thing that pops out to an onsite Alray observer is that the ballast there is extremely high, maybe four feet!


The 2007-2008 altered right-of-way width of the grading is probably wide enough for three-tracks, but because the ballast is so high here, the illusion is that three tracks might not fit.

At the same general location, a westbound view towards I-15:


If a BNSF-UP connecting track did come this far from the Silverwood area, it would have to end near where the Tunnel 2 once was, because there is no grading for a third-track to the west.  And, there is only an old two-track bridge over the public dirt road.  Note the guard railing on the photo background middle-right.


Continued in Part E

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, May 20, 2013 4:29 AM

Triple-Tracking That Is NOT Triple-Tracking:  Is It a New “Ground Zero” for Cajon Pass?

Part “C” (of A-F)

On Sunday, May 13, 2013 K.P. visited Alray, and below are four resultant normal to heavy telephoto photos.  From left to right are Mains 1 and 2.  The steeper Main 3 is nearby on a different route (out of view on the right).





In comparing the above four photos with the first photo in Part A, it is not clear if another track could fit through the Alray cuts.  The above four views were where Tunnel 2 used to be.

Continued in Part D

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, May 20, 2013 4:25 AM

Triple-Tracking That Is NOT Triple-Tracking:  Is It a New “Ground Zero” for Cajon Pass?

Part “B” (of A-F)

BNSF could save 40 miles if trains went via UP, passed Ansel …


… Palmdale Junction (left) …


 … approached the northwest slope of Cajon Pass …


… then transferred to the BNSF track near Silverwood and go under that “old” signal bridge between Silverwood and Alray, and get back on the BNSF at Alray.

Continued in Part C

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, May 20, 2013 4:21 AM

Triple-Tracking That Is NOT Triple-Tracking:  Is It a New “Ground Zero” for Cajon Pass?

Part “A” (of A-F)

Union Pacific has “I-5 Corridor” trains between the Pacific Northwest and Southern California, i.e., Seattle, WA-Los Angeles, CA.  BNSF has a similar, competing operation, though on a more circuitous, out of the way route.

Since 2008 K.P. has anticipated BNSF in Cajon Pass eventually putting in a long connection between UP’s Silverwood and BNSF’s Alray.  Instrumental in forming that opinion was the 2008 erection of a relocated, now twenty-year old three-track signal bridge midway between those two mentioned points.  The ground seems graded for a third-track.


Word has come through K.P.’s grapevine of contacts that UP has run a few BNSF trains for BNSF over the Palmdale Cutoff.

Both UP and BNSF trains go over Tehachapi …


… but at Mojave the BNSF heads east to Barstow, and in taking the long way around transfers to the Transcon at Jewell (turnout route on background left) …


… and eventually goes through Summit in Cajon Pass on its way to Los Angeles.


Continued in Part B

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:46 AM

Update as of Sunday, May 12, 2013

Ranchero Rd.

Hesperia, CA

On the east slope of Cajon Pass, in the southern part of Hesperia, the new Ranchero Rd. divided roadway is now paved under the new triple-track bridging.


The sun was low in the evening light, and shadowing was severe when a BNSF westbound happened by.

Is Cajon Pass a New “Ground Zero”?

Most of us that are old enough remember well Ground Zero of September 11, 2001 and what happened at the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers.  K.P. perceives another Ground Zero brewing, but this one involves TWO railroads, labor, and Cajon Pass!


Very recently the Alray area of Cajon Pass was visited and some photos taken there for a planned upcoming ‘Ground Zero’ posting series.  The above photo is a resultant view looking eastbound at Alray to where Tunnel 2 used to be.  The planned series will look at what K.P. perceives as a major labor conflict brewing very peculiar to the rail routes passing through Cajon Pass.

By the nature of the BNSF right-of-way in that Alray area, an onsite inspection proved somewhat inconclusive about the location’s future, but one of two future physical plant possibilities (“possibilities”), one at Alray, the other a mile of two to the east, are likely to be involved in a potentially hostile management-labor environment.

Sometime in the relatively near future K.P.’s hope is to finish putting together the series on what he knows of the situation, and it then will be shared with the forum for its own analysis and opinion formation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 3:36 AM

The Freeway Walling at the Far Western Foot of Cajon Pass

Part II (of I-II)

The BNSF walling and I-215 / S.R. 259 Baseline Rd. off ramps being watered:


A lot of dirt will have to be removed.(lower middle).  Note the walling curves with the tracks (far right).  The I-215 Freeway southbound lanes should be closer to the BNSF tracks north of the 16th Street bridge (piers upper right).


The BNSF tracks can be seen under the Baseline Rd. off ramp right next to Baseline Rd.


A closer view of the presently ungraded future southbound I-215 lanes:


Those unpaved future dug down lanes use to be at track level and right next to the triple-track mains..

The freeway construction project should be finished by the Fall of this year, 2013.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 3:21 AM

The Freeway Walling at the Far Western Foot of Cajon Pass

Part I (of I-II)

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 K.P. had opportunity to photograph the new, pronounced I-215 / BNSF walling north of Baseline Rd. in San Bernardino, CA.


Above, the under construction 16th Street bridge over the BNSF and I-215 Freeway is seen.  When it opens, tt will give a view of the walling never before seen.

An overview of all the present temporary Interstate 215 (I-215) / State Route 259 (S.R. 259) Freeways junction lanes with the BNSF on the upper left:


A combination of I-215 and S.R. 259 southbound off ramps will be next to the tracks, with S.R. 259 lowering and junctioning into I-215 southbound (presently not concrete laid on the lower right).


Continued in Part II

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by BarstowRick on Monday, April 8, 2013 12:48 PM

Just a word of caution from a member of the choir.  To look at or use the signals as a tell tale for what's going to happen next may be misleading.    Signals are usually the last thing that goes in before the track is opened for traffic.   Santa Fe, UP, SP, and now BNSF & UP all have used temporary signals to allow for the safe movement of traffic.    To be used and maintained until the project is complete.  

Barstow has been known for stock piling bridge parts for further projects.   Not surprised to hear mention of such here.     

Oddly enough I've arrived at the same conclusions you have by reading the all to familiar tell tales.   So, we are on the same page.    Just don't be to surprised when it doesn't quite go the way you think it will.   Those boys and girls in the railroad engineering departments have ways of sabotaging our best guesses.    

From the side door Pullman:   KP you mentioned a signal bridge and referred to it as old, that's a relatively new signal bridge.    The old ATSF signal bridges were black with heavy metal plate construction.    The one pictured is pipe in construction.   That be new!    Picture taken at the Summit Crossovers before the 3rd main had arrived...right?

Looking forward to more of KP's and Rad's aka Robert, fine input here.  Keep it coming and if you don't mind I will throw in my two cents in from time to time.

RickH

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, April 8, 2013 10:42 AM

K.P.

If I remember correctly (Which is a challenge at times), That 3-Track bridge came out of Barstow when they did some track work there. Not sure if it was a surplus reuse or part of a bigger master plan.

When they did the work at Summit adding the third main (Then a siding) to Martinez, a BNSF employee told me that they had extending the culverts to support a third track all the way to Main St. in Hesperia. Although the signals do not show it, I would bet they could be easily extended to match the single support three track versions that are down at Cajon. I think this just applies to the ones at Lugo, but the other intermediates would need replacing.

Of course all this happened before "BB" (Before Buffet)

Robert

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, April 2, 2013 8:03 AM

Ranchero Rd. and Intermediates

Hesperia, CA

North of the below underpass grading (photo bottom) …


… it is estimated that between 1000 and 1500 feet are now color light signals (that replaced old target signals at the same location).


While it is now established that the new underpass bridging at Ranchero Rd. is for three-tracks, the signals this side of Lugo all the way to Frost utilize masts (one on each side of the two-tracks) for the new signals and not cantilever bridging structures.

As has been pointed out herein, BNSF seems to be in NO hurry to lay a third track on the east slope of Cajon Pass, and the NEW mast signals seem to back that up.

Replies:

Paul D. North Jr. (3-28):

You are so right, Paul.

blue streak 1 (3-29):

No 2:  Not being privy to inside corporate masterminds, it is difficult to say if BNSF is anticipating an influx or not of traffic from Mexico bound to traverse Tehachapi, but I doubt it.  BNSF wanting additional tracks on Tehachapi is probably only to make their heavy Bay Area to Chicago traffic more fluid. (See also the reply to BarstowRick.)

No. 4:  BNSF’s Mojave-Barstow trackage is a nifty speedway to say the least, and meets are swift.  To go into a siding, trains are limited to 30 M.P.H. (because of the red over yellow signals), but can exit at 40 M.P.H. for anything more favorable than yellow!

BarstowRick (3-29):

In my opinion, BNSF desires to use UP’s line south of Mojave and to Cajon Pass via UP’s Palmdale Cutoff to Alray.  That was the conclusion I reached many months ago because of the now 20-years old three-track signal bridge at an intermediates location for Mains 1 and 2.


K.P. sees no other rational explanation for such an old bridge among …


… a bunch of two-track new one!

Take care all,

K.P.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:47 PM

The Ranchero Rd. Underpass

Hesperia, CA

Part “C” (of A-C)

The master game plan is for Ranchero Rd. to be such a wide passageway all the way west to the I-15 Freeway, where presently an interchange is in the early stages of being constructed.



Presently, locals that desire a quicker access to I-15 southbound take Summit Valley Rd. that straddles the BNSF tracks for much of the way (upper left).


With a wide Ranchero Rd., however, traffic patterns undoubtedly will change.

A Google Maps puts matters into perspective.  Key roads:  I-15, Ranchero Rd, Highway 138, and Summit Valley Rd.

LINK:  Overview Map

Most parts of Ranchero Rd. are now narrow, as the below road closed informational sign view shows.  The narrow roadway is on the photo’s lower left.


Access to the area, especially to view three-tracking, has had its trials.  But things will undoubted improve with the new Ranchero Rd.  If nothing else, it will lighten the danger of Summit Valley Rd.  Presently, the speed limit on some parts of the two-lane road is 30 M.P.H., but people doing 70 M.P.H. are often seen.  Railroaders and railfans traversing it more or less put their lives in jeopardy!  That will be lessened after the Ranchero Rd. overpass at I-15 and the underpass at the BNSF are open.

Now, if only more three-tracking of Cajon Pass was as certain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:40 PM

The Ranchero Rd. Underpass

Hesperia, CA

Part “B” (of A-C)

The new roadway is highway-like wide.


Looking west into the sun:


An eastward view … going into the distance:


As seen in the photos above, Ranchero Rd. will be a wide, artery-like passageway for a community that the railroad basically cuts in half with limited ability for the community to travel between those halves.

Continued in Part C

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:36 PM

The Ranchero Rd. Underpass

Hesperia, CA

Part “A” (of A-C)

On the afternoon of Friday, March 29, 2013 K.P. returned to the Ranchero Rd. underpass area, and quickly found the general vicinity of where that “proof” of three tracks wide bridging photo was shot from.  And, he took several photos himself …


It definitely looks like a three-track wide structure.


It especially has a three-track width look in this view:


Continued in Part B

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by BarstowRick on Friday, March 29, 2013 7:32 PM

K.P.  I hope you don't mind my jumping in here.

To answer Blue Streak's question about BNSF routing traffic into San Joaquin Valley.   The hump yard in Barstow was located there for a purpose.    To run all traffic destined to go eastbound or north bound to Barstow for Classification, then made up into trains and dispatched.

 

One of the interesting things about the mega mergers of BN & SF,  UP & SP  the now BNSF and UP both railroads gained specific trackage rights over each other's rails.     Today UP can use the Barstow to Mojave tracks to move trains from the old UP, LA&SL lines over the former SP later traded to the AT&SF.   In case I lost you.   UP can now  route trains between Barstow to Mojave, CA.   Giving UP's westbound trains  direct access over the Tehachapi Pass and into the Gateway to the San Joaquin Valley via Bakersfield, CA.    Avoiding having to go all the way into Colton, Ca. and back out.  Perfect for unit trains. Did I confuse you yet?   

 

What I don't know about... is whether or not BNSF and UP came to any trackage agreements  with regard to the old SP Colton Cut Off.   If unknown to this author.... BNSF and UP did arrive at any trackage agreements with regard to BNSF running the Colton Cut Off, Westbound.   They would need to build a BNSF to UP crossover to allow trains to move from the old AT&SF to the old SP somewhere (I presume) near Devore, CA.    Difficult at best but not an  impossible task to accomplish.

No speculation on a future third track from Summit, Ca. to Barstow, Ca.    Give them time to get'r done.   Unless the green minded ones decide...well....to put a halt to the project.    

RickH

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, March 29, 2013 1:42 PM

KP;;  Some pure speculation of the triple tracking Summit --  Barstow.

1. As you posted elsewhere UP is adding sidings / 2nd main track on the Tehachapi - Bakersfield route at the apparent behest of  BNSF.

2. Could it be that BNSF expects a growth of traffic from the LA basin to the SAN JOAQUIN valley ?

3.  If so that traffic could reduce the fluidity to unacceptable levels on the Summit - BARSTOW SEGMENT. 

4.  Maybe one of our posters can provide info on the  BNSF   BARSTOW  ---  SOUTH MOJAVE track as to how much traffic on that segment and if any major infrastructure improvements as well ??

Maybe a little in left field but ??

Of course if Perris  -  Oceanside  was still in service  ????

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Posted by BarstowRick on Friday, March 29, 2013 11:39 AM

The one thing I appreciate about K.P.'s presentations here is:   He uses "Tell Tales" to deduce what is happening.   Not always accurate as we've all been fooled into thinking one thing oddly enough  to discover the railroad is thinking and doing something else.    After looking at some of the pictures he has shared here I have to say I've agreed with most of his conclusions and he hasn't been to often wrong.   

Now with the bridge pillar thing... well, anyone could make that mistake.   BNSF has unofficially informed their staff that they will eventually three track all the way from the Summit, CA. to Barstow, CA.   However, it isn't on the highest priority of things to do as other areas are needing track replacement or double tracked.   

The key to all of this:  Should the merchandise being shipped continue to come in from off shore, there will be a need to increase the number of trains to deliver said goods.    The bottle neck starts in the L.A. Basin  but is more pronounced  between San Bernardino, CA. and Daggett,CA., just east of Barstow, Ca.   Keeping in mind from Riverside eastbound to Daggett UP has trackage rights over the BNSF tracks.

One of the advantages to the west slope of Cajon Pass, is the BNSF and UP are joined at the hip with a crossover just before the Summit giving both railroads the use of a total of four tracks and two sidings to negotiate the steeper grades of the pass.  

The downhill grade on the east side of Cajon Pass, Ie., Hesperia down to the Upper and Lower Narrows at Victorville, CA.   Has been graded for a third track.   Looking at the tell tales you can and will most likely conclude that BNSF, will eventually add a third track.    

Also, old news perhaps but Metro at one time wanted to base commuter trains in Victorville to run between the High Desert and Los Angeles Communities.   

Because, most of us don't have access to or are privy to the board room tables and decisions made at the administrative levels for the various railroads.   We will have to put some things on hold.    Take a wait and see attitude and stand by to see what happens next.

K.P.  I do enjoy your reports and speculation as you read the tell tales.   Keep your reports coming.  They are appreciated by this participant.   Adding, the only real time news we seem to be getting.    Thanks!

 

RickH

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Friday, March 29, 2013 12:14 AM

Big Money in Devore

The Devore, CA area was triple-tracked a number of years ago (but less than a decade).  It has been known that Glen Helen Parkway (formerly Devore Rd.) was projected to have a grade separation built.  K.P. was by there the late afternoon of Thursday, March 28, 2013.  What was seen cause him to stop and take a few photos.


The land in the far background has been cleared.  Previously, on the left (above photo), was a rural restaurant, and on the right possibly old houses.

So, the grade separation must by near.  It is supposed to be an overpass, so temporary track relocations won’t be needed.

The SANBAG website lists the project as costing nearly $26 million.

LINK:  Glen Helen Pkwy Technical Project Info

It is listed as having a completion date of June 2015.  So, if that still holds, the start of the project theoretically should be soon.  The fact that the nearby lands have been cleared substantiates that.

Very nearby, the almost a third of a billion dollar I-15 / I-215 interchange revamping is getting close too.

LINK:  Diagram of I-15 / I-215 Project

Railfans will be interested to know Cajon Blvd. will be made a through road in that project.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:31 PM

K. P. Harrier
Update as of March 26, 2013

The New Signals, an Underpass, and Assessing Matters

Part III (of I-VIII)

At this point in the presentation, it might be good to consider the new, still under construction (North) Milliken Ave. Flyover in Ontario maybe 35 miles east of Los Angeles, a flyover on the Union Pacific Sunset Route.



As seen in the last photo above, that structure has FOUR pillars, and the end product will be a two-track flyover!

In contrast, the NEW Ranchero Ave. underpass in Hesperia has THREE such pillars, hence, the bridging ONLY HAS A TWO-TRACK WIDTH!



Through logical deduction, then, since this is a new bridge, THE EAST SLOPE OF CAJON PASS WILL THUS NEVER HAVE THREE-TRACKS!

The trackage by this Ranchero Ave underpass is on a moderate uphill grade between FROST to the east (right) and LUGO to the west (left).

Continued in Part IV

There's no reliable, absolute, or definitive correlation between the number of pillars (columns) under a bridge with the number of tracks on the span above (although it's tempting to conclude that is the case).  The bridge's longitudinal beams and the thick horizontal pier cap on top of the columns can carry and spread out the loads, with informed choices as to the depth (height), internal reinforcing steel, column spacing, etc.  So, the number of columns to be used is pretty much at the discretion of the designer, as long as it is economical, provides some redundancy, and can reasonably withstand extreme loadings such as earthquakes.  For examples, consider "hammerhead" piers with only a single column, or some bridges with many piers/ columns, and so on.

- Paul North.   

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by BarstowRick on Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:35 PM

Count me in.   I want to go too.Angry     Maybe for anger management...heeheehee. 

 

LOL

RickH

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mvs
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Posted by mvs on Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:31 AM

K.P., I'm not really a Jimmy Buffett fan, but I suggest a Cheeseburger in Paradise or Margaritaville? Smile

Kidding aside, I wish I would've posted those links sooner.  I've had them bookmarked for at least a year.

Thank you, as always, for your excellent work!

K. P. Harrier
Convulsions Central

K.P. is starting to think he needs to take a medical leave FROM the forum …and the Ranchero Road underpass … 

...

Anybody know of a good place that K.P. can check himself into for recovery rehab?

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:43 AM

If you find some place, find out if they have group rates .. Big Smile

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:25 AM

Convulsions Central

K.P. is starting to think he needs to take a medical leave FROM the forum …and the Ranchero Road underpass … 

It had been understood that the Ranchero Rd. underpass only had a two-track wide spanning.  The official “Riverside Construction Company, Inc.” website, which K.P. could not find a physical address for, so he is assuming it is an earth based outfit and not from outer space (though K.P. has learned NOT to assume things), speaks of that bridge as a “bridge for the two BNSF tracks.”  In hindsight, that is an interpretive phrase, NOT limiting the bridge to just two tracks.  Top side visuals spoken of and posted here at the forum seem to indicate the bridging is indeed for three-tracks, though only two-tracks are presently laid over it.

So, we are back to square one, and Ranchero Road area could eventually have three-tracks eastward to who knows where!

Anybody know of a good place that K.P. can check himself into for recovery rehab?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:59 AM

Great links ... This photo from http://www.trainmaster.ch/ shows what looks like the tracks centered over the columns with room for a third.

mvs
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Posted by mvs on Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:29 AM

K.P., thank you for the great set of photos!

However, I have to question your reasoning w.r.t. the Ranchero Road bridge:

  • From the City of Hesperia website, here is a link to two webcams of the project.  Doesn't the bridge look wide enough for a future third track?
  • A website (http://www.trainmaster.ch/XC-11.htm) features photographs by local railfans of the Ranchero Road bridge going back to the project's beginning.  The webpage opines that the bridge is designed for three tracks.

I meant to share these links when I first saw this particular thread.

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Posted by BarstowRick on Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:28 AM

Regarding the Ranchero Ave. Overpass.

Just a bit more information:    http://www.vvdailypress.com/articles/hesperia-29833-road-underpass.html 

And more information:   http://www.cityofhesperia.us/index.aspx?NID=844

A third bridge can be added at anytime BNSF, thinks it's needed.    One of the problems with three tracks into Victorville is the Upper and Lower Narrows.      Originally BNSF had plans to three track all the way to Needles, Ca.    Don't count that idea as lost in the scuffle.   On hold perhaps but should freight traffic pick up...if you get my drift.   

My speculation, which is about as good as K.P.'s.   I believe, eventually they will three track all the way to Daggett, Ca.,    and in a later building project continue on to Needles.    There are places where sidings already contribute to the three tracking concept.   Ie., Daggett to Barstow, Ca.

 

Keep those photos and your thoughts on the subject coming K.P.   Your guess is as good as anybody else's.

Old Rick, taking notes.

RickH

BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's

Be careful  what you ask for you might get it.Cool
  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:29 PM

KP;   maybe that 2 track bridge was agreeded to long before a possible need to three track to Barstow was considered necessary by BNSF.  ANYONE HAVE ACCESS TO CAL DOT documents on that bridge ??

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:00 PM

Update as of March 26, 2013

The New Signals, an Underpass, and Assessing Matters

Part VIII (of I-VIII)

Of course, a new element has arisen, the imminent rebuilding of the ex-Santa Fe San Jac Line to become the Perris Valley Line for Metrolink commuter trains, which will put a whole new twist to BNSF’s triple-track line from Highgrove to Riverside.



The end of triple-track in Riverside, looking eastbound:  Main 3 is on the background right.


So, very little remains to be done of ANY triple-tracking, but what does remain (about two miles) the timing of is unknown.  The fact that a bridging for an underpass on the east slope of Cajon Pass was built for only TWO tracks suggests the line to Barstow will never be triple-tracked.  BNSF must perceive the mild grades and traffic levels (possibly up to a 100 trains a day) just doesn’t warrant the expenditures of any triple-tracking eastward to Hesperia, Victorville, and Barstow.

After the final two-mile gap between Colton and Highgrove is completed, it is unknown if MARTINEZ will be revamped, so that Main 1 is the straight track of the two all the way through.  Main 2 / 3, on the other hand, is now a maverick situation, and may never ever again have a straight route, but only turnout routes – Summit and West Riverside.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:51 PM

Update as of March 26, 2013

The New Signals, an Underpass, and Assessing Matters

Part VII (of I-VIII)

There are two reasons the gap in the three-tracks has not been filled … well, three.

One:  The Barton Rd. overpass:


Two:  The two-track bridge over the I-215 Freeway (upper left):


The third element is being eliminated with the construction of the Colton Flyover.

It is unknown what will happen with the Barton Rd. overpass.

The railroad bridge over the I-215 freeway is slated to be replaced in the State’s freeway widening project, the one two-track bridge will be replaced by THREE single-track bridges.

K.P. interprets that to mean three-tracks will soon approach the Barton Rd. Bridge in Grand Terrace.  This likely will be soon (as K.P. interprets matters) because already a staging area is to the south of the bridge in Highgrove.



Continued in Part VIII

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 7,968 posts
Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:44 PM

Update as of March 26, 2013

The New Signals, an Underpass, and Assessing Matters

Part VI (of I-VIII)

Those designations stay that way over the top of Cajon at Summit, down the west slope, through San Bernardino, until Colton is reached at CP29 on the San Bernardino Sub.


(Above, looking north, which is eastbound, from left to right, foreground track to the UP, Mains 1 and 3, background Mains 1, 2, and 3.)

A side view at Valley Blvd.:  Note there is NO Main 2.


Colton currently has the Colton Flyover being built, in which the UP Sunset Route will go over the BNSF Transcon.  Looking west with an eastbound BNSF passing.


An eastward view of the Sunset Route flyover construction:


After the Colton Flyover is built and fully operational, a third Transcon track may or may not be laid connecting Colton and Highgrove, where three tracks resumes its westward journey.

Continued in Part VII

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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