Two CN trains collide !!

[CrazyDiamond]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/04/train-burning.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070804/train_derailment_070804/20070804

 

This only days after they get charged for enviromental damage, and in the same week as an inquiry into CN's safety has begun.

 

 

[CliqueofOne]

CN's management have another 'Procedural Error'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUwObb3AZc

[CliqueofOne]

CN Derailed Trains Operated By Management ?
http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/6665/3/cn+derailed+trains+operated+by+management+%3F

[lenzfamily]

Cliqueofone

I was talking with one of your craft just this afternoon. Among other things we talked about the state of railroading, CN style. To say the least it is a sad story.  It appears as if the company has some more lessons to learn about safe train handling on the BC Railway, which it will always remain as far as I am concerned. CN (in my personal view) is still a primarily 'flatlander's' railway as far as operating procedure is concerned. They are about running as much tonnage as possible with as long trains, as little power and as few crew as they can get away with (as far as I can see). This is all in aid of the bottom line. IMHO they will have to learn (even more than they might have done so far!?) to adjust their operating methods to something different than the specific operating conditions of the Edson, Albreda, Ashcroft and Yale subs if they are going to do better in this particular area of operation. They have not learned, in my view, to deal in a satisfactory corporate manner with sharp curvature, steep grades and distributed power matters as well as other techniques necessary to operate successfully in this particular (and very mountainous) environment. The accident at Lillooet last year (2006) with the runaway power (without dynamic braking ability) and a loaded centrebeam car on one of the steepest grades on the subdivision (NE of Lilloet) is a case in point.  In another area of concern, a recent example is the bridge collapse  just east of Tete Jaune Cache on the Edson sub two years ago. The TSB report and its description of how bridge inspection and maintenance slipped through the organizational 'cracks' (because of reorganization and expansion of bridge engineers territory at Kamloops) is sad yet instructive reading. Let's hope CN  learns its operating lessons soon in these specific instances, or better yet, return the BCR to those who actually know how to run it and with the personnel, equipment and money necessary to do so. BTW, the BC provincial government 'lease' of BCR to CN is an ongoing and rather sad piece of news, even now, in BC.

 Charlie

Chilliwack BC

 

 

[CliqueofOne]

Hunter Harrison's funeral pyre or just another smoke signal for the shareholders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b8E8we4rCc

[CrazyDiamond]

Charlie, that knowledge or learning does exist inside the CN today. Those with BCR that are now CN do know how to do this....they did it years and years before.  Therefore, because they are not doing it now, implies the upper 'brass' mangement has dictated to them to not do what they did before, and thus the increase in these ridiculous events. It appears CN has choosen to choose profit over safety. 

 

They have not learned, in my view, to deal in a satisfactory corporate manner with sharp curvature, steep grades and distributed power matters as well as other techniques necessary to operate successfully in this particular (and very mountainous) environment......... Let's hope CN  learns its operating lessons soon in these specific instances, or better yet, return the BCR to those who actually know how to run it and with the personnel, equipment and money necessary to do so.

 Charlie

Chilliwack BC

 

 

[CliqueofOne]

Just great! Now the Canadian people are getting all upset over something that happens, if not daily, almost daily. If only the 'New CN' could keep a lower profile and make those shareholders filthy rich beyond their wildest dreams. What's an environmental catastrophe every now and then in the backwoods of Canada when there's profit to be made.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070804.wcnderail0804/CommentStory/National/home

[Murphy Siding]

      Are CN's *big* problems only on the former BC Rail lines?

[CliqueofOne]

      Are CN's *big* problems only on the former BC Rail lines?

It really makes the news if it happens on former BC Rail property or anywhere in BC. But the 'New CN' actually has these happenings all over Canada much too frequently. It's just that most of Canada's media has been reined in. Fortunately BC still has freedom of the press.

[lenzfamily]

Crazy D

Sorry for the confusion.

I was referring to the management when I referred to returning the BCR to those who know how to run it. I had friends in management in the communications/signaling department of the BCR. They had years of experience and many of them left BCR when CN took over. The new management (if I may call it that!?) was out of their depth here and certainly had a steep learning curve to contend with. IMHO they still do. I believe that railroads, no matter how we look at them, are directed by their management in the final analysis and not by the running crews. The Lillooet derailment occurred with a CN unit which was not equipped with dynamic braking. In the 'good old days', the BCR management would have been all over a situation like this. A unit with dynamic braking capability would have been the unit switching the mill spur east (and significantly upgrade) of Lillooet. CN, as I said previously, is a 'flatlander's' railroad without the corporate (and thus management) ability (or will) to adjust to these mountainous operating conditions. The crews know how. Their management cannot or will not do so. Sad, but there it is. Line staff are the ones who do the work. As in many other corporate situations, their input and knowledge are ignored all too often. The consequences are obvious.

charlie  

[Doc Murdock]

It does seem as if Canadian National has had a number of problems on the B.C. Rail lines they overtook. It seems out of proportion to their main line in the Fraser Canyon or on the prairies. Is this true or am I not hearing of problems Canadian National is having elsewhere in Canada or in the States?

[CliqueofOne]

There are many ways to find out about the 'New CN's' track record.

Join Running Trades and take a look under 'Derailments';
http://www.runningtrades.com

Transportation Safety Board of Canada;
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/rail/index.asp?section=1

Unfortunately not all derailments are investigated.

TSB Rail Statistics;
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/stats/rail/index.asp

Unfortunately only up to 2005. Severely under budgeted by the Canadian government and really don't have the manpower, resources, and time to investigate all derailments. Many of the large ones unless there's loss of life, environmental damage, or public inconvenience just slip through the cracks.

Transport Canada;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/railway/en/menu.htm

Regrettably extremely useless when it comes to dealing with the operating practises of the 'New CN'.

Transport Canada - Railway Safety Consultative Committee;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/railway/rscc.htm

Railway Safety Act Review;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/tcss/RSA_Review-Examen_LSF/toc_e.htm

Railway Safety Act Review - Submissions Received;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/tcss/RSA_Review-Examen_LSF/submissions_e.htm

Try Google; http://news.google.ca/
Type in "CN Rail", "Canadian National Railways", Canadian National Railway", CNR, etc.

Try the company's own site. Warning! Very simplistic and always out of date. Not that informative, lots of misinformation.
http://www.cn.ca/customer_centre/ebusiness/state_of_railroad/en_state_of_the_railroad.shtml

The Cheakamus River incident;
http://www.riversedgefishing.com/32101/index.html

Caper;
http://www.capercanada.shawbiz.ca/index.html

There are many more ways to find out what's happening. But best of all is to actually be an employee and get the chance to photograph these derailments. Something to enter in the company's yearly calendar. As an employee you actually get see and hear about the daily mishaps on CN. And you get the chance to actually see the upper management in reaction and listen to their simple minded chants. Plus another nice thing about being an employee of CN is that once you retire you still have contacts on the inside to send you info such as company edicts and such. Still get to hear all the gory details about another brain dead idea and pictures of the outcome.

As for news of every major derailment reaching the public. Next to impossible with the strangle hold that the business elite has on the so called free press up here in Canada. CN's Rumour and Damage Control Teams are extremely effective in keeping many derailments out of the news. They are so good that many employees find out after the fact when it comes to derailments.

[CrazyDiamond]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

[CliqueofOne]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

Not yet. Being retired kind of makes it a useless endeavour. It's too bad there wasn't a government committee of some kind that wouldn't fold under pressure from CN. Where the members would refuse to be intimidated, impressed, bought out, muzzled, etc. A committee with the teeth to tear into the culture of the 'New CN' and rip it to shreds. I'd love to be a member of such a committee. Being a former employee with 37 years of actual down and dirty on the job experience, they couldn't pull the wool, I mean cotton over my eyes. The Harrison regime never impressed or intimidated me when I was employed on CN and since retirement I'm certainly not impressed by his lack of business ethics and social morality even now.

[CrazyDiamond]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

Not yet. Being retired kind of makes it a useless endeavour. It's too bad there wasn't a government committee of some kind that wouldn't fold under pressure from CN. Where the members would refuse to be intimidated, impressed, bought out, muzzled, etc. A committee with the teeth to tear into the culture of the 'New CN' and rip it to shreds. I'd love to be a member of such a committee. Being a former employee with 37 years of actual down and dirty on the job experience, they couldn't pull the wool, I mean cotton over my eyes. The Harrison regime never impressed or intimidated me when I was employed on CN and since retirement I'm certainly not impressed by his lack of business ethics and social morality even now.

When I asked if you were a Caper I meant are you from Cape Breton?  

[CliqueofOne]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

Not yet. Being retired kind of makes it a useless endeavour. It's too bad there wasn't a government committee of some kind that wouldn't fold under pressure from CN. Where the members would refuse to be intimidated, impressed, bought out, muzzled, etc. A committee with the teeth to tear into the culture of the 'New CN' and rip it to shreds. I'd love to be a member of such a committee. Being a former employee with 37 years of actual down and dirty on the job experience, they couldn't pull the wool, I mean cotton over my eyes. The Harrison regime never impressed or intimidated me when I was employed on CN and since retirement I'm certainly not impressed by his lack of business ethics and social morality even now.

When I asked if you were a Caper I meant are you from Cape Breton?  

Nope. Living up on the hill north of the station on the Dundas Sub in Brantford, Ontario. Still hearing the sounds of the big freights climbing the hills.

[Murphy Siding]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

Not yet. Being retired kind of makes it a useless endeavour. It's too bad there wasn't a government committee of some kind that wouldn't fold under pressure from CN. Where the members would refuse to be intimidated, impressed, bought out, muzzled, etc. A committee with the teeth to tear into the culture of the 'New CN' and rip it to shreds. I'd love to be a member of such a committee. Being a former employee with 37 years of actual down and dirty on the job experience, they couldn't pull the wool, I mean cotton over my eyes. The Harrison regime never impressed or intimidated me when I was employed on CN and since retirement I'm certainly not impressed by his lack of business ethics and social morality even now.

When I asked if you were a Caper I meant are you from Cape Breton?  

When you asked that question, I had kind of envisioned a masked crusader with a cape!

[CliqueofOne]

CliqueOfOne......are you a Caper?

Not yet. Being retired kind of makes it a useless endeavour. It's too bad there wasn't a government committee of some kind that wouldn't fold under pressure from CN. Where the members would refuse to be intimidated, impressed, bought out, muzzled, etc. A committee with the teeth to tear into the culture of the 'New CN' and rip it to shreds. I'd love to be a member of such a committee. Being a former employee with 37 years of actual down and dirty on the job experience, they couldn't pull the wool, I mean cotton over my eyes. The Harrison regime never impressed or intimidated me when I was employed on CN and since retirement I'm certainly not impressed by his lack of business ethics and social morality even now.

When I asked if you were a Caper I meant are you from Cape Breton?  

When you asked that question, I had kind of envisioned a masked crusader with a cape!

No need to be confused if someone had read my previous post.

Caper;
http://www.capercanada.shawbiz.ca/index.html


On a lighter note CN in all it's wisdom came clean on who was behind this very minor Procedural Error. My, my. It was a manager doing a union mans work. He must have thought he could do a better job. A better job at causing a pile up because of his ignorance and arrogance coupled with childish behaviour. The New CN at it's finest. Maybe this time the Canadian government won't be so easily swayed by smooth talk and graft as they have been the last 5 to 7 years and come down hard on the company. Big money can buy/bribe/influence only so much in any given period of time.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=b7b6dd6f-3c91-4356-a5fd-799da453e48d&k=81205

Still a lot of double talk and general evasiveness in answering I see.

Just a little snip; The employee involved was an experienced manager who was also working in a unionized position doing this kind of handling".

Now hand me the comics section will ya.

[Murphy Siding]

When you asked that question, I had kind of envisioned a masked crusader with a cape!

No need to be confused if someone had read my previous post.

Caper;

I see my error now.  I didn't check out all the links on the list.  It makes sense to me now.  Thanks

[CliqueofOne]

The fire may be out but the heat's still on for CN. This may be the straw that broke the camels back, so to say.

If a train crashes in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it make any noise?
<http://www.pgfreepress.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=26&cat=48&id=1040673&more=0>

“Train length was not a factor in the incident,” she said.
<http://www.pgfreepress.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=26&cat=23&id=1040640&more=0>

"When CN was given charge of BCR it was argued it would run a more efficient railroad."
<http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=101550&Itemid=264>
Justice may finally be served after this one.

"Transport Canada has served CN Rail with a list of conditions under which it must operate on the rail line where a pair of trains carrying hazardous materials collided on Saturday."
<http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=101483&Itemid=239>

"But CN representative Kelli Svendsen reiterated that the collision was caused by "employee error," and insisted that train length had nothing to do with what happened. When asked to explain further, however, Svendsen said she could not disclose the nature of the error."
<http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=8fa08f32-e100-4e20-b4a4-0a4a9425a303>

Lots more reading; <http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ned=ca&q=CN+Rail&ie=UTF-8&scoring=n>

Yes, yes, yes. Out of the frying pan and right into the heart of the fire. This one has hit the radar.