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Op Ed - "Railroad monopoly is drag from factory to the supermarket"

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Posted by alphas on Friday, August 17, 2007 9:16 AM
Edbenton's point about truck weight is well taken.  Plus there's too much cheating going on with the weight.    One of the more reknown engineers in the country had told me that the standards for interstate and similar highways should be raised uniformly to require 36 inches of concrete for new and total rebuilt construction instead of the current 18.   That would be more costly in the short run but more cost saving in the long run.   This move has been heavily resisted by politicians of all stripes and the highway maintenance lobby (which includes the various unions as well as the companies). 
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Posted by n012944 on Friday, August 17, 2007 8:44 AM

 futuremodal wrote:
Name for me any other industry where the customer is labeled as "the competition".

 Up until last year GM boughts engines from Honda for use in the Saturn Vue, making GM a customer of Honda.  I am sure that even you consider GM as competition to Honda, right? I don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.  The railroads have to prove to the JB Hunts and UPSs of the world that putting their trailers on the railroad is better than driving them themselves. So the railroads are in competition with the trucking companys over costs for transporting the trailers.  If it became much cheaper to drive the trailers from say LA to Chicago, I am sure you would see much less UPS traffic on that corridor.

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Posted by edbenton on Friday, August 17, 2007 6:23 AM
Dave here is an interesting thing to THINK about.  When the US Interstate system was designed trucks were weighing a max of 73280 on 5 axles the engineers knew what they were facing.  Then all of a sudden in 1980 the limit was raised to 80K ever noticed it has been since then the roads in the country have gone into disrepair could not have been the simple fact the shipping company lobby got what it wanted an extra 10% increase in weight yet the roads were not designed for it.
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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:53 PM
 futuremodal wrote:
 n012944 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

The last time I looked, railroads and truckers did compete with each other, hardly a monopoly.

Yep, I just read where JB Hunt was thinking of entering the Powder River Basin to haul coal to Midwest utilities!  Meanwhile, Schnieder is thinking of contracting with Cargill to move Montana grain to the pacific coast ports, and Navajo will soon start their own single stack road trains to haul containers from LA to Chicago!

Yep, them truckers provide tons of competition for the rairoads! 

(insert sarcastic smilie here)

 

Dave

"...of the People" - Learn it, love it, live it!

Thats right, I forgot that in Daves little world, industrys are supposed to be punished when they become more efficent than their competition. 

 

As for your little absurb twisted statement above, one of similar mindset could apply that to the artificial GVW and length limits placed on truckers - certainly that's an example of an industry being punished for "efficiency", isn't it?

As long as you don't own the right of way that you operate on, you gotta play by other people's rules. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:32 PM
 n012944 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

The last time I looked, railroads and truckers did compete with each other, hardly a monopoly.

Yep, I just read where JB Hunt was thinking of entering the Powder River Basin to haul coal to Midwest utilities!  Meanwhile, Schnieder is thinking of contracting with Cargill to move Montana grain to the pacific coast ports, and Navajo will soon start their own single stack road trains to haul containers from LA to Chicago!

Yep, them truckers provide tons of competition for the rairoads! 

(insert sarcastic smilie here)

 

Dave

"...of the People" - Learn it, love it, live it!

Thats right, I forgot that in Daves little world, industrys are supposed to be punished when they become more effiecent than their competition. 

Only the railroad industry considers it's most predominant customer as "the competition".  Not good business sense, is it?

Name for me any other industry where the customer is labeled as "the competition".

As for your little absurb twisted statement above, one of similar mindset could apply that to the artificial GVW and length limits placed on truckers - certainly that's an example of an industry being punished for "efficiency", isn't it?

PS - care to tell us your name?

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Posted by edbenton on Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:56 PM
Called the mega carriers like Swift JB Hunt Scheinder and Werner gave away alot of things that when the trucking industry was regulated to get more customers.  They allowed the shippers to hold their trucks for hours and DID NOT CHARGE THEM DETITION TIME FOR THE DRIVERS.  Therefore those shippers kept giving them more and more loads and forced smaller carriers to do the same to same afloat.  Now the drivers are pushing back and the carriers do not know what to do.  The drivers are now logging everything as it happens meaning they get stuck at a shipper or reciver 14 hours sorry I can not move til I get a 10 hour break.  The carrier goes move it or it is your job the driver turns them into the DOT for forcing them to voilate the HOS regulations then the carrier gets a HUGE fine and then the carrier hits the shipper with detetion time after 2 hours from now on and see how fast they move.
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Posted by alphas on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:51 AM
Money is only part of it.   The most common complaints of OTR drivers are the long hours away fom home, driving in lousy weather, eating out so much, and  boredum.    Its basically like working for the railroads--you either really like what you are doing or its hard to stick it out.     At least the RR's have 2 in the cab so you're not traveling all alone and the traffic flow you face is controlled.
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Posted by JSGreen on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:24 AM
 edbenton wrote:

 We meaning OTR truckers are the ONLY group of workers EXCEMPT from OVERTIME AND THE FAIR LABOR ACT yet everytime we tried to get those so they applied our own CUSTOMERS fought us so they would be able to keep us sitting at the docks and use us as warehouses.

Well, without trying to belittle anyone, I wonder why folks who are treated like that dont find another line of work?  Being a free country, it would seem if you dont like the working conditions, you could move on to something more to your liking.

If fewer people put up with such nonsence, in a free market economy it would seem conditions would change or they would pay more to entice folks to the job.  Yet, this doesnt seem to be the case...I have read stories about how hard it is to get OTR drivers...perhaps its only hard to get OTR drivers for the wages the companies want to pay...could it be because if they raise their rates, they will lose business to another mode of transportation (Railroads, for instance)?  

 

...I may have a one track mind, but at least it's not Narrow (gauge) Wink.....
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Posted by edbenton on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:08 AM

Dave considering that 80% of ALL FREIGHT in this nation NEVER touches a rail then the trucks do provide major competition to the RR.  Remember Dave a OTR team can and does provide 40 service Chicago to anypoint on the West coast and OVERNIGHT to the East Coast.  Name one RR that can do that.  Also in the Produce field the RR basically gave it to the trucking industry and said here you go take all of our business from us.  Trucking is a very hard to do indusrty with regulations written in the 30's that need to be updated and when they try to do it every special intrest group refuses to listen to the group that knows what needs to be done THE DRIVERS and then the courts throw out the changes 2 times now.  We meaning OTR truckers are the ONLY group of workers EXCEMPT from OVERTIME AND THE FAIR LABOR ACT yet everytime we tried to get those so they applied our own CUSTOMERS fought us so they would be able to keep us sitting at the docks and use us as warehouses.

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:05 AM
 futuremodal wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

The last time I looked, railroads and truckers did compete with each other, hardly a monopoly.

Yep, I just read where JB Hunt was thinking of entering the Powder River Basin to haul coal to Midwest utilities!  Meanwhile, Schnieder is thinking of contracting with Cargill to move Montana grain to the pacific coast ports, and Navajo will soon start their own single stack road trains to haul containers from LA to Chicago!

Yep, them truckers provide tons of competition for the rairoads! 

(insert sarcastic smilie here)

 

Dave

"...of the People" - Learn it, love it, live it!

Thats right, I forgot that in Daves little world, industrys are supposed to be punished when they become more efficent than their competition. 

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:22 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

The last time I looked, railroads and truckers did compete with each other, hardly a monopoly.

Yep, I just read where JB Hunt was thinking of entering the Powder River Basin to haul coal to Midwest utilities!  Meanwhile, Schnieder is thinking of contracting with Cargill to move Montana grain to the pacific coast ports, and Navajo will soon start their own single stack road trains to haul containers from LA to Chicago!

Yep, them truckers provide tons of competition for the rairoads! 

(insert sarcastic smilie here)

 

Dave

"...of the People" - Learn it, love it, live it!

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Posted by edbenton on Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:37 AM
Dave if you look at the balance sheets who is the largest source of REVENUE for the RR overall.  The trucking industry then the container companies then the coal companies UPS alone causes the RR to fight for the business remember the Speed train that UP tried and failed at.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:35 AM

The last time I looked, railroads and truckers did compete with each other, hardly a monopoly.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:19 PM
 MichaelSol wrote:

What on earth does the militia have to do with rail monopolies?

Just another attempt by the rail monopoly deniers to hijack the thread, per the usual.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:17 PM
 jeffhergert wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

Dave doesn't have the Second Article of Amendment phrased properly anyway.  "of the people" isn't in it.

Also notice that he hasn't defined a "real" American.

Every place I have seen the Second Amendment reproduced, the words, "of the people" is in it.  I would agree to the extent that the "militia" has evolved into today's National Guard, however I don't believe all courts have ruled that ONLY the government has a right to keep firearms.  If that had been the case, all guns would've been confiscated long ago.  (I would almost think a reading like that would mean even the full time US Army couldn't have firearms, only that portion subject to call during a national emergency.)

I didn't even look at the Wikipedia version, there are so many other places to read it. 

As for the rest of the argument over railroad monopolies, re-regulation, open access et al, FM your on your own.  In those areas I don't agree with you. 

Jeff

That's alright Jeff, upstanding people can disagree on those other subjects since there's so much subjectiveness to them.  But there is no subjectiveness to the fact that "of the people" is right there in the 2nd Amendment.  It is inarguable, and those who claim otherwise are just plain ignorant fools.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:07 PM

 edbenton wrote:
Paul remember this about Dave he goes off anytime anyones disagrees with him on anything at all.  I had a MONSTER arguement on the number of trailers and was getting my numbers from the very agency that regulates trucking and my cousin a COO of a major leasing company.  Yet he was still claiming there are 4.7 million trailers in the country and my figures way lower then he started the personal attacks on me to the point the thread was DELETED.

There was no argument, just the fact that I referenced with links the 4.7 million figure, aka the CORRECT number of truck trailers plying the roads, while you just claimed to have talked to your cousin.  Ergo, unless you can provide more credible evidence of your claim, aka with linkable references, you lose.

BTW1 - that's not a personal attack.  It's a personal attack when you start degrading the person's place of residence, race, religion, intelligence, et al.

BTW2 - the thread was deleted because of your personal attacks as per BTW1 above, as you just couldn't resist throwing in references to tin hats and back woods shanties.

BTW3 - I also notice you're nowhere to be seen when I'm out there defending the trucking industry against the "truckers don't pay their own way" myth.

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Posted by MichaelSol on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:58 PM

What on earth does the militia have to do with rail monopolies?

But, while I'm here, the pertinent provision of the US Code, one of the oldest provisions of the US Code, and which provides the acutal definition of "militia" as used in the Second Amendment, makes it quite clear what the "militia" is.

10 USC 311

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are- (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

 

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Posted by SALfan on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:35 PM
 jeffhergert wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

Dave doesn't have the Second Article of Amendment phrased properly anyway.  "of the people" isn't in it.

Also notice that he hasn't defined a "real" American.

Every place I have seen the Second Amendment reproduced, the words, "of the people" is in it.  I would agree to the extent that the "militia" has evolved into today's National Guard, however I don't believe all courts have ruled that ONLY the government has a right to keep firearms.  If that had been the case, all guns would've been confiscated long ago.  (I would almost think a reading like that would mean even the full time US Army couldn't have firearms, only that portion subject to call during a national emergency.)

I didn't even look at the Wikipedia version, there are so many other places to read it. 

As for the rest of the argument over railroad monopolies, re-regulation, open access et al, FM your on your own.  In those areas I don't agree with you. 

Jeff

Jeff    

The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the right to keep and bear arms is an INDIVIDUAL right, not limited to the National Guard or any organized group.  Any male between the ages of 18 and 65 not in some branch of the military (Army, Army Reserve, National Guard, etc.) is considered a member of the unorganized militia.  Until the Supremes reverse those past decisions, end of discussion. 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:46 PM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

Dave doesn't have the Second Article of Amendment phrased properly anyway.  "of the people" isn't in it.

Also notice that he hasn't defined a "real" American.

Every place I have seen the Second Amendment reproduced, the words, "of the people" is in it.  I would agree to the extent that the "militia" has evolved into today's National Guard, however I don't believe all courts have ruled that ONLY the government has a right to keep firearms.  If that had been the case, all guns would've been confiscated long ago.  (I would almost think a reading like that would mean even the full time US Army couldn't have firearms, only that portion subject to call during a national emergency.)

I didn't even look at the Wikipedia version, there are so many other places to read it. 

As for the rest of the argument over railroad monopolies, re-regulation, open access et al, FM your on your own.  In those areas I don't agree with you. 

Jeff

Jeff    

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Posted by edbenton on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:17 AM
No I do not poke the lions at the zoo.  I was a wedgebreaker in Highschool you know on the kickoff squad the ones that have one speed and just run you over head first trying to get to the ballcarrier fastest then rip him to pieces.  Longest runback against our side was 10 yards number of injuries suffered from me 3 broken legs and 10 broken ribs I only got 2 minor concussions of course I was a goal line defender also.  
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:22 AM
I'm crazier than that, I'm played Rugby when I was youngerBig Smile [:D]
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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:13 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

 edbenton wrote:
Paul remember this about Dave he goes off anytime anyones disagrees with him on anything at all.  I had a MONSTER arguement on the number of trailers and was getting my numbers from the very agency that regulates trucking and my cousin a COO of a major leasing company.  Yet he was still claiming there are 4.7 million trailers in the country and my figures way lower then he started the personal attacks on me to the point the thread was DELETED.

Don't worry.  I'm having too much fun just prodding him.  He is one of the few people who subtracts from the sum of human knowledge every time he opens his mouth.

Do you and Ed go to the Zoo and poke sticks into the lion cages? Laugh [(-D]

Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by edbenton on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:41 AM
I know same here.  It is so much FUN to do it.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:09 AM

 edbenton wrote:
Paul remember this about Dave he goes off anytime anyones disagrees with him on anything at all.  I had a MONSTER arguement on the number of trailers and was getting my numbers from the very agency that regulates trucking and my cousin a COO of a major leasing company.  Yet he was still claiming there are 4.7 million trailers in the country and my figures way lower then he started the personal attacks on me to the point the thread was DELETED.

Don't worry.  I'm having too much fun just prodding him.  He is one of the few people who subtracts from the sum of human knowledge every time he opens his mouth.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:09 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

This is straight from Wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate, reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, had different capitalization and punctuation:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

As you can clearly see, Paul, the phrase "the right of the people" is readily apparent to all but those who are unable to read English.

Yeah, but I can log onto Wikipedia and change that right now.

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Posted by edbenton on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:44 AM
Paul remember this about Dave he goes off anytime anyones disagrees with him on anything at all.  I had a MONSTER arguement on the number of trailers and was getting my numbers from the very agency that regulates trucking and my cousin a COO of a major leasing company.  Yet he was still claiming there are 4.7 million trailers in the country and my figures way lower then he started the personal attacks on me to the point the thread was DELETED.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:35 AM

Hey everybody, FM uses Wikipedia as a primary reference.  At any rate, the courts have used the text as passed by the House and Senate, with all its vagueness, as the proper text.  So the real question is:  WHOSE right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?  I would read it as that of the well-regulated militia, now known as the National Guard.

Does anybody know if FM supports the Fifth Article of Amendment and the Sixteenth Article of Amendment?

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:42 PM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:

Dave doesn't have the Second Article of Amendment phrased properly anyway.  "of the people" isn't in it.

This is straight from Wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate, reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, had different capitalization and punctuation:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

As you can clearly see, Paul, the phrase "the right of the people" is readily apparent to all but those who are unable to read English.

 

Also notice that he hasn't defined a "real" American.

A real American is one who supports and upholds ALL of the Constitution of the United States of America.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:09 AM

Dave doesn't have the Second Article of Amendment phrased properly anyway.  "of the people" isn't in it.

Also notice that he hasn't defined a "real" American.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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