zugmann wrote:I see some getting so worlked up about that "rail pictures" website, and trying to shoot to their definitions. Please. Can you imagine OWL sending photos tothat site? Bad motive, eh, too much foreground clutter...
I see some getting so worlked up about that "rail pictures" website, and trying to shoot to their definitions. Please. Can you imagine OWL sending photos tothat site? Bad motive, eh, too much foreground clutter...
Well, I'm sure Ogle had his share of rejects as well. We only get to see his good stuff.
Bucyrus wrote:So to answer your question: There is no guarantee that film entries will be equally unaltered because there is no requirement that they be unaltered.
So to answer your question: There is no guarantee that film entries will be equally unaltered because there is no requirement that they be unaltered.
So what you're saying is film entrants CAN be altered? Hmmm....
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann wrote:That is the problem with cheaters. If they spent half as much time learning technique as they do in figuring out how to cheat - they wouldn't need to cheat!!!!
Exactly.
Anyway, if I happen to catch an image that I think is relative to this contest, I might submit. And if I do, I will send one unprocessed RAW and one processed JPG. If they don't want to take the time to review my entry because I included a "true to life" processed image, then so bet it. I will not switch to shooting in JPG mode just to try to capture an image for a contest.
zugmann wrote:It is just that people are blaming Trains for trying to make the contest fair - when we know that there are just too many dishonest people out here.
It is just that people are blaming Trains for trying to make the contest fair - when we know that there are just too many dishonest people out here.
well..I dont think anyone is blaming Trains for trying to make the contest fair..
trying to make the contest fair is a good and noble thing.
the problem is that the rules that have been given to "try to make the contest fair" are unenforceable..thats what all the controvesary is about.
and now the original rules seem to have been relaxed a bit, so first the original rules were inpossible to enforce as stated, so Trains magazine clarified them a bit in this thread, which was good, but the clarification contradicts the original rules! which are still in place..
that, in a nutshell, is what this all is about.
Trains magazine is trying to do the right thing, but because of the technology of digital photography, they simply cant have the rules they would like to have.
IMO, digital alterating of digital photographs is no different than doing manual dodging and burning in the darkroom..they both "alter reality"..
Not one single Ansel Adams photograph you have ever seen was "real".. He heavily altered the scene to make shadows lighter and highlights darker..its called the "zone system" and Adams invented it..it involves changing the negative, in developement, AFTER the photo was taken! ;)
much like digital improvements after the picture is taken. Ansel Adams would be disqualified from this contest because of the way he made his photographs.
And the real "problem" here that Trains is trying to fix, is that some people will complain about "fairness"..
"its not FAIR that someone else knows how to use photoshop and I dont! wahhh!"
well..is it fair that someone knows how to use an 8X10 view camera and you dont? they might have better pictures than you because of that! is it fair?
is it fair that someone has a digital SLR and you dont?
is it fair that someone knows how to make good use of filters on the lens and you dont? (ohhh..which reminds me..technically filters should not be allowed, because they alter reality! ;)
its all just various photography skills.. digital skills are no different than film skills. I was a photography major in college, I can do Ansel Adam's zone system to vastly improve B&W photos..is that fair? sure it is..I learned it, I should be able to use it..same with photoshop.
Im repeating things I have already said in other forums on this topic..(or was it THIS forum?? I lose track! ;) but I wills ay it again anyway:
IMO, all of this is a big fuss over nothing..99% of what makes a good photograph takes place in the photographers mind before the shutter is pressed.
You can own a $10,000 professional digital SLR and know Photoshop backwards and forwards..but if you dont have the skill, you wont take a great photo.
conversely, if you have the skill, you can take a prize winning photo with a pin-hole camera made from a pepsi can!
Trains is just trying to placate the whiners, to make "everyone happy"..it cant be done... no matter what you do, someone wont be happy..this "photos cant be altered" rule probably made more people angry than it made satisified! because GOOD photographers understand what digital editing means, and how its a good and necessary thing..and they understand this rule is impossible to enforce, making it meaningless, and only harms the contest, not helps it.
Scot
I see photography in two subjects: photo as in art - and photo as a captured moment in time. The latter would get post processing to make it look like what actually happened. The prior - well, that's when you can delete mountains and add wires - or the reverse if you will.
Sorry, I'm not a photographer major though.. so my definitions are purely made up in my own head.
Scot,
The points you made in the above post are all well stated and right on the money. Nobody is suggesting that people look for ways to cheat the contest. And nobody is complaining about TRAINS trying to make the contest fair. My point is that they might bring about the unintended consequence of making the contest unfair if they impose a rule without any way to verify that the rule has been adhered to by the contestants.
I am confident that TRAINS will modify the rules of the contest to reflect what Mr. Danneman has suggested in an earlier post in this thread.
Bucyrus wrote:Scot,The points you made in the above post are all well stated and right on the money. Nobody is suggesting that people look for ways to cheat the contest. And nobody is complaining about TRAINS trying to make the contest fair. My point is that they might bring about the unintended consequence of making the contest unfair if they impose a rule without any way to verify that the rule has been adhered to by the contestants.I am confident that TRAINS will modify the rules of the contest to reflect what Mr. Danneman has suggested in an earlier post in this thread.
thanks..
but I suspect it may be already too late to change the rules for this years contest, because the rules have already been printed in at least one issue of Trains magazine. once its "out there" in print, I dont know if they could change the rules now..maybe they can, I dont know..im sure we will hear either way.
scottychaos wrote: Bucyrus wrote: Scot,The points you made in the above post are all well stated and right on the money. Nobody is suggesting that people look for ways to cheat the contest. And nobody is complaining about TRAINS trying to make the contest fair. My point is that they might bring about the unintended consequence of making the contest unfair if they impose a rule without any way to verify that the rule has been adhered to by the contestants.I am confident that TRAINS will modify the rules of the contest to reflect what Mr. Danneman has suggested in an earlier post in this thread. thanks.. but I suspect it may be already too late to change the rules for this years contest, because the rules have already been printed in at least one issue of Trains magazine. once its "out there" in print, I dont know if they could change the rules now..maybe they can, I dont know..im sure we will hear either way.Scot
Bucyrus wrote: Scot,The points you made in the above post are all well stated and right on the money. Nobody is suggesting that people look for ways to cheat the contest. And nobody is complaining about TRAINS trying to make the contest fair. My point is that they might bring about the unintended consequence of making the contest unfair if they impose a rule without any way to verify that the rule has been adhered to by the contestants.I am confident that TRAINS will modify the rules of the contest to reflect what Mr. Danneman has suggested in an earlier post in this thread.
It seems like the rules have already been changed in this thread by Mr. Danneman.
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