Distributed power question

[Anonymous]

Distributed power is becoming increasingly common at least in my area(Montana)and the area I visit most often (UP in Northern Oregon). My question is are the mid and rear sets on a DP setup individually controllable from the front set? In other words, as the lead portion of the train crests a hill, can the lead set start using dynamics on the downgrade while the rear set(s) continue to push upgrade? If they are individually controllable, how does the engineer know just when to put following set(s) into dynamics?

[Anonymous]

yes they are independantly controllable from the head end, except the only comination that is not allowed is to have the head end pulling while the others are in dynamics (for obvious reasons, although it might be nice in certain situations). as for knowing when, it's just a matter of skill and judgement as to where the middle/rear units are in the terrain. generally though, they work quite nicely even when all are operating in syncronous mode.

[Anonymous]

Derek, Thanks for your reply. Good answer. I saw the preview of the August issue of "Trains". looks like it will cover the topic in depth. Ron

[Anonymous]

just got that issue yesterday, indeed it does do a good job of explaining DPU's and their operation. happy reading.

[favuprailroadfan]

I think it went very in depth on how helpers work. I am from Kansas so I don't see that much helper activity here. It sucks. That picture that starts the story of the coal train in the PRB, just makes me want to take some days off, and go up there and see this spectacle.

[Anonymous]

Got my issue of "Trains" Tuesday. Good articles that answered my questions and then some! Ron

[Anonymous]

lot's of DPU's in Kansas, though, especially on UP's Marysville and Kansas subs, Coffeyville and Parsons subs too. Just a little tidbit, I run Herington to KC and Herington to Pratt, on that westbound KC run, we occaisionally have to shove trains up Alta Vista hill if they are too heavy or loose a unit or something, it's kindof fun doing it but, it seems wierd having those cars in front of 'ya instead of behind!

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, I live in McPherson, and I am usually over at Canton at my mother in laws. She lives right there at the Main Street crossing. When one goes by, I am usually out there watching it go by. Maybe I have seen you. I just have one question. There about 3 or 4 miles east of Canton, the tracks go around a tight very superelevated curve. What is the degree of this curve? ( If you know). And is there a speed restriction on it. Because I was out there on Wednesday, and a stacker went by, and I thought the thing was going to stringline itself. It was very impressive to see. I would appreiciate the help.

Thanks, Dru

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry I don't know the degree of this curve, but there is no speed restriction there, it's 70mph, same for that curve just on the west side of canton, (i love that curve, you just keep leaning and leaning). there is currently a 45mph restriction about 3-4miles west of canton, at the east end of the new siding they are putting in. trains that are good for 70 usually aren't going 70 through canton because it's at the top of a hill both directions, especially westbound, but that curve you are talking about east of town is at the bottom of a hill, so we are usually screaming through there, unless we have to meet, or just met a train at the siding at waldeck. I'll keep my out for ya there at canton, which side of the tracks? I've always wanted to get a pic of an easbound coming around that curve at canton, maybe with one of the "winged wonders" leading into the sunrise, think it would be a cool picture. just a little tidbit, there is an interlocking at McPherson, right by that refinery place, it's 50mph, we really slam that one.

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, I am usually on the south side of the tracks right at the Main Street crossing right there in Canton. I knew that westbounds were headed uphill into Canton, but I didn't know that eastbounders were also. I was over at the curve east of town on Wed. and a westbound was getting up to speed after meeting a eastbound at Waldeck( it had seven units very impressive I might add). I chased the eastbound to Waldeck, and hurried back to the curve. I didn't see the westbounds power, until he started around the curve,(he had a 70M, 2SD60M's, and 2 SD40-2's). It was around 6:30 in the evening, and he had a "winged wonder" on the lead. This was the time in which I had my camera. Everything was perfect. I had a good angle, light was beautiful, going around that curve into the light, leaning around that curve just added to it. But I do have another question, why are they putting in a new siding west of Canton, when there is one at McPherson, just 6 miles away, and Waldeck, I think 10 miles away, and how long will it be? One other thing, I have seen one of them 70M's leaning into the sunrise at Canton. One word to describe it. "Beautiful". Maybe if you get the chance, we could meet some day and go chase in this area. There are lots of spots to go hunt. Which one of the curves is tighter. West of town, or east of town?

Dru

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, I have a couple of more questions. Is UP going to increase the number of trains through here, or is it going to stay like it is? And how many are currently running throgh here at the present time?

[Anonymous]

In answer to your first message, I think the one just on the west side of town is a little sharper, but they both are pretty close, so it's hard to tell for sure. sounds like you had a pretty good shot there, I kind'of wondered about westbound, but it always feels like your leaning more eastbound (probably because I'm on the high side eastbound). the reason for that new siding is we don't use the one at Mac for anything except coke hoppers and MofW sometimes. too many crossings there to be much use, and it doesn't have spring switches on it either, so once you leave waldeck the next siding isn't until inman. personally I wi***he new siding was west of galva instead of east, but I guess the county wouldn't let them close a road in the middle so they moved further east. as far as length it is just a little over 2miles long, don't know the exact footage yet 'cause they haven't told us, it should probably be open sometime in the next couple months though. now for your other questions, they keep telling us we are going to get more trains (all stacks so they say), including possibly a couple of Z trains, so I'd say yes eventually we will have some more, plus it's a little slow right now, and they have been consolidating the IIMEP and the IIMLB sometimes. as for an exact number right now, it is really jumping around a lot, some days they are trying to cram through 13-15 each way and some days it's only 7-9 each way, a lot depends on grain business and auto racks. basically everyday wbd you have (some trains don't run on certain days): IIMLB,IIMEP,ICHLB,IG2LB,2IGLB(usually),AKSPX,AKSML,IDULA,MKCTU,MHNEP,various grain trains, and sometimes IDULBX (empty stacks and pigs), IYCLBX (empty stacks and pigs again), when autos are really moving 2AKSML, MKSPX, these are all westbound, then eastbound you have :ILCIM,IEPIM,ILADU,ILBCH,ILBG2,APXKS,AMLKS,MEPHN,MWCHN, and again various grain trains, and some extra autos and 2nd sections of some of the stack sometimes. I may have left some out but this is the basic linup almost every day, interestingly I don't think I've ever seen them move empty stacks eastbound, has to do with the flow from the west coast I guess. anyways hope this answers some of your questions, and yeah maybe we will have to shot some pics together. I'll look for ya there at canton, oh yeah, one other thing, you said you didn't realize it was uphill eastbound, it isn't nearly as steep, just a gradual rise, so if you have some pony's it's not too much of a problem.

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, Thanks for all the info. I didn't realize that the UP changed all the symbols around so much. Its been forever since I had seen a lineup,(since SP was still here). Are they still running the Blue Streak through here(BSMFF) or did they get rid of it? Or is there a differant symbol for it now? Write me back and tell me when your coming west again, possibly what train and about time you'll be through. I'll look for ya. I know it will be tough to tell which one, and when, but if its possible? Talk to ya laters,


Dru

[Anonymous]

sorry ol' blue is dead, even though in the merger fileing they said they were gonna keep her. there is an equivalent train, (comes from same place, same cars etc, just not the name) the IDULA is the BSM's replacement. I did forget at least one eastbound, (i figured i forgot some), the is also the ITIBP(B sometimes). Just came back from Pratt early this morning (4:30 or so through Mac) on an ol' dog MWCHN. Had a UP8553 as a leader (6000hp SD-90MAC), hadn't seen one of these for a while, they've been keeping them on the west coast, I still like 'em. Best dynamics of any engine we have. had 2 old GE's behind working, and 3 dead SD40's going to St.Louis to be sold or scrapped. If possible i'll send you note, but it'll probably be only 3-4 hrs before i come through, after i send it.

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, I didn't here ya go through, but I take you heard the news. About the derailment, I wish I could get close enough to get pics, but the police said over the radio here, that if anybody tries to get near. They will be detained. It sucks. They should almost have it open by know. They worked all day yesterday,(it happened at 2:30p.m.), all night last night. Haven't had a chance to go by today, so I don't know. Probably still are. I am a big time railfan, but my god. You should see the way those cars are piled on top of one another. It is so funny looking seeing those cars all over. I had a little bit of a smirk on my face, it wasn't because the train derailed, but it was the fact of seeing those cars like they were, and all that grain laying all over the place. Any idea who the engineer was? Which train it was? I know it was around 60 cars long. It happened just west of the Ave. A crossing here in McPherson. I was hoping to see one of them 90's, its been awhile since I seen one myself. Just send me a note when you're coming my way.

Dru

[Anonymous]

yep, they sure do make a heck of a mess when they derail, and yeah, it does look a little wierd when cars that are supposed to be sitting normal are sitting there with their "butts" in the air. yes, i know who the engineer was, don't know him real well, i think he's a salina engineer working down here. he's currently off, investigation pending. rumor has it he was doing 55mph, at that spot just on the west end of that little bridge, there was a pretty good sun kink that had a 40mph slow order on it, that's probably what did it, although we had a level 3 heat order out that day anyway (level 3 is all trains 40mph or less) so if he really was going 55, he's in deep $#!^.might possibly be heading west tonight, don't know for sure yet, might catch midnight dodger here, just have to wait and see, extra board's pretty unpredictable right now. oh, the train was a GL.... don't know exact symbol, but i do know it was a loaded grain train. don't know if the main is back open, but they were getting around it through the siding.

[Anonymous]

hey Dru,
I just got called, going west, called on aksml for 1130pm. probably be through around 1-2 in morning, if your awake i've got the 95.., forgot the last 2 digits, anyway it will be the 4th westbound tonight. it'll be all auto racks. looks like probably headed back east sometime in the evening tommorrow, depending how quick we get to pratt.
if you happen to have a scanner you'll hear the ds giving us block authority. there is another Brady out there, but i don't think he's working west tonight.
later...
derek

[Anonymous]

Ron
Yes indeed are most new locomotives, such as AC, cabable of being run independent of the lead unit. If they are equiped with DP hardware. There is a mode, called fence mode, where engineer can operate front set differently form helper. If you know what you are doing, slack may be controlled, as well as other things. Now with a 2 2 1 combination. That is a different story. Like you may see in Colorado sometimes on a coal drag. I will have to check on that one.
Hope that helps....

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, Sorry that I haven't wrote you back sooner, my wife had her gall bladder taken out Thursday morning, so its been a real hectic weekend. You should have seen what I saw Sat. in Canton. I saw SP's first SD70M, the 9800, in the lead even. I believe that they do have the main line open, and they are running at a little bit of a higher speed, I think. I went out and checked out that new siding that they are building. That is the longest siding I've ever seen. It almost looks double track, because from the ground, it goes over that little hill and you can't see the west end. Question, is the siding going to be CTC controlled? When I was out there, I took a look at the box at the east end, and it CP( I'm sure it means Contolled Point), that is why I was wondering if it was CTC. They currently have a ballest train sitting on it. 3 SD40-2's are the units. Well maybe I'll catch you next time.


Dru

[Anonymous]

hey Dru, sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she is doing better now. I met that sp9800 later that night, we met him in the siding at janet, those sp9800's have been floating around a little bit, we used to never see them 'cause they were assigned to the I-5 corridor on the west coast, I guess the UP decided to let'em out into the rest of the SD70 fleet. I worked a ballast train at Mac on the 23rd, mainline is open although at 15mph, may be a little higher now though, I think they said it took 26 panels to rebuild it. the other rock train you saw, dumped their rock and came back to herington the same day (23rd). you should see the siding at white city, it's 4miles long. as for the CTC question, you're close on the CP, it stands for control point. as far as I know for the time being it is not going to be CTC, although I'm sure they have it set up to be in the future, they may surprise me though and do it now. also when they get it open, for a while all trains will run through the siding, so they can put some new big pipes under the main, and fix that stretch of track back up, (it's pretty rough right now). talk to ya later, hope your wife is doing o.k.
derek

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, How far is White City from Canton? Is it east of Herington, or west? I thought I might have seen you on Tuesday in Canton on the UP 6507, it was a grain bucket, becasue the engineer was turned facing the south. I could see his entire front half of his body besides his legs. He was pointing a finger at me, so I thought it might have been you. Any idea when you might be able to take a day off or something? Either I can come up there or visa versa. That 9800 was something else, it was only the 2nd one I'd ever seen, so that was pretty cool. I didn't get the local paper with the train wreck in it, had some good pictures of it in there. One interesting little fact- Did you know back in 1970, another train derailed in that same spot. It was a 100 car freight, and it dumped 23 cars on the mainline- just thought you might find that interesting. What is your phone number so maybe I can give you a call? Maybe we can figure something out. I won't be around this weekend, State softball tourney in Winfield. Oh one other thing, Monday night, I don't know whether you saw it or not, but a train left Mac eastbound. It had 2 UP units up front, then it had 6 CKRY and K&O units, eight total units. It might have been you, because I was right there at the ball diamonds when it left. He was hauling rock up front, then a regular freight behind them. It was UP 56- dang forgot the last two numbers- all I know it was a repaint B39-8( old SP unit). My wife (Tonya) says hi. She is doing great considering she just had surgery a week ago. She was sitting out with me at Canton on the picnic table. We are really anxious to meet you. I finally found my camera. I have to go. Write me back.

Dru

[Anonymous]

1st off, I was wrong about that siding at galva, just went through eastbound last night and some of the signals are up, it apparantly is going to be CTC based on the signals, (what they are setting up can only be used in CTC) so for that I am glad, i was told it wasn't going to be right off the bat, but I guess a lightbulb went off in someone's head somewhere. White city is the next siding east of herington, about 10mi east of the yard. sorry, wasn't me, I was in or on my way to, KC. didn't know about another derailment there, that is interesting, one of the MofW guys said that bridge was shifting a little bit (2inches or so) so who knows, might be another one there too! those 9800's have always been one of my favorites. the first engine I got on when I was just getting hired and going through my classes was a 9800 at the diesel shop in KC. those engines you saw were picked up at hutch. I was supposed to pick 'em up a few days before, but i wouldn't because the way you saw them coupled up was a rule violation, (hope no one got in trouble, or at least got authority to do it that way). those engines don't have the right couplers to legally be coupled that way according to our rules,(don't have alignment control couplers). glad to hear your wife is doing good, hope everything continues to improve. I won't be around either the rest of this weekend, one of my brothers turns 21 in KC so I gotta go up there and help him celebrate! Party! gonna have to lay off sick though, 'cause otherwise i'd be back at work already. anyway 785-258-3503, not home a awful lot, (just got a new Harley, gotta go ride when i get the chance), but you can give me a try. they just did a bunch of work on the curve on the west side of town, down towards the detector, speed limit is restricted to 30 right now, should go back up to 70 pretty soon, (when we don't have heat related speed restrictions). about that 56.. (b39-8), i absolutely hate those engines, at least as far as running a train goes, they are the slowest loading engines i have ever seen, (same goes w/the b40-8's too), sometimes takes 2-3 miles before they do anything besides rev up and sand! have a good time in winfield.
derek

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, I have seen those new signals that they put up and they are fancy. I went to Hutch on the 31st and a train was stopped in Inman waiting for an eatbound. When me and Tonya got to the easr end of the siding, I saw the conductor walking. It was still around 100, and I wasn't going to let him walk. The train was 5300 ft. long, that is quite a distance in that heat. The lead unit was UP 2298 (SD60M), but the eastbound that he met. Differant story, 4 units, (SD70M-forgot the number-then another SP SD70M- its number was 3998- and I think he had a C40-8, and a SD60M, but he was only 2500 to 300 ft long-if that. Short one. He probably had about 7-8 HPT. The engineer was Parker-I think- anyways. The way that they were coupled is one facing front, one facing back, so on and so forth. I didn't know that those engines weren't allowed to run on UP rails. Tonya is really doing well, she really wants to go swimming-me too. I'll keep me out for ya, and hope to see ya soon. Do you have a specific way that you honk your horn, or is it the normal way?

Laters, Dru

[Anonymous]

well you just missed me that day, I headed to pratt around noon on an auto rack, had 2 CNW 8600's and about a mile of train. Yep, there's a Parker that works regular to Pratt, pretty nice guy. It seems to me I met that train too, but I think it was at Pratt, can't remember for sure, but pretty sure the outbound was getting on as we were tieing up. About those engines, they are allowed out on our tracks, there's just a bunch of restrictions when they don't have alignment control couplers, and to have 'em all behind the engines, in front of the train is a no-no. we have some switch engines that don't have those couplers either, that's why if you see a switch engine (or amtrak engines on lease also) it will be right behind the lead unit, then the rest of the engines. as for honking I'm pretty consistent, just 2 long, short, long, but I do it for all 3 crossings there at Canton, some guys don't do it that way, they just kind'of hold it for those closer crossings. the only time I do it different is if I have an older unit that won't "release" the horn (one where it just trails off for a long time). you never did say, do you have a scanner? If so, there's 2 bradys, the other brady is regular to Pratt and no, there's no relation (that I know of at least). anyway, if you have a scanner, you'll know if there's a brady out and about from them getting block authority. It's always given blah,blah,blah train with engineer "...." etc. Oh yeah, I think I remember a crew talking about the nice guy that gave'em a ride to the head end, and yes they really do appreciate it when someone gives'em a ride, especially when it's real hot or real cold or raining. so thanks for the lift!

Derek

[favuprailroadfan]

Derek, It was no problem giving him a lift. I did have a scanner at one point, but I let another train buddy of mine that lived in Kismet borrow it, and never saw it again. So I'm looking in to getting another one. I do have a scanner, but its like 30 years old and don't work that good. Is the line still under DTC authority- I would imagine so-but nowadays you can never tell with this railroad. I think that they are about ready to open that siding. They have been working on it hot and heavy recently. I think they still have some work to do on it. But I just wi***hey would hurry up and open the thing. I've already been checking it out for possible pictures. There are some really good shots in and around the siding switches. I don't know when I'll be by the tracks next, low on money, and low on fuel so when I get around to it. I'll be out there. Some times I'm also out where the wreck happened there in Mac. Where they closed that road. I go out there sometimes if I'm in the neighborhood and check things out. Well I hope to see ya soon.

Laters, Dru

[favuprailroadfan]

DEREK-

Where have you been man. I have waiting for you to come by sometime, and no Derek. I now live in Canton, about 6 blocks from the tracks. When was the last time you went through? and which train? They have been real busy recently, seems that more are running at night. I don't know whether it is due to construction on the line somewhere. But if you can remember the last time you went through, and what engine you had. Maybe I saw you. I drive a tan Chevy 4 door car. Monday night, I was where the derailment happened, parked on the north side of the tracks. Had plenty go through. I was there trying to get some pics at night. Its really hard. I am going to try to get to Herington tomorrow or either Friday. Where is the yard located at again? And how do I get there? I will be coming up 77 from Marion. Anyways, I misplaced your phone number(sorry), and was wondering if you could give it me again. If you are off the board, maybe you could meet down there. I just don't want to get into to much trouble. Plus, what of power do they have switching the yard there? I was in Hutch the other day, and seen an old DRGW GP40 with a full headlight package. Two on top, two in the middle, plus the ditch lights. Its number is SP 3086. I got some good pics of it. Only engines that I have never been on is the AC6000's and the 70M's. I really want to see the old style in the new loco. So if you get this message tonight, write me back ASAP, so I know where you are. Yesterday I saw an eastbound at Inman, with 8 units, I think 4 or 5 of them were DIC. He wasn't that long, I think it might have been a MWCKS. But he meet a stacker there, but he was mostly empties. I think he had maybe 3 full sets of containers. 2 70M's on the lead. Good pics there too. Well I guess I had better let you go. Sorry about the long letter.
See ya around down by the tracks---hopefully soon---

Laters, Dru

[Anonymous]

hey dru,
went through wed's night about 4am eastbound empty grain train, but I wasn't running, I was a pilot for an engineer we recalled from Hoisington. I put my email address on a reply to question about HLCX,HATX engines where i saw you had talked w/matt in salina, also, i think I saw you there one night at the middle crossing in canton. send me an email and i'll give 'ya my # again. sorry I hadn't been around for little bit, road my bike out to colorado springs and cripple creek this past weekend, so i haven't been around for about a week, won't be around labor day either, gonna ride to lake perry for a big party there, then should be around pretty regular after that for a while, gotta keep the company off my back for laying off!!! talk to ya later, see ya round the tracks.
derek