Trackside with Erik and Mike, Vol. 68

[edblysard]

Well,

It reads like you just were, though.

I was under the impression you guys posted this section to get input and the reaction from the readers, be it good, bad or indifferent.

This kinda sound like you would rather not read the criticism or the indifference, with only the "I like" replies being welcome.

I think what Mookie was saying was neither photo lit her fire, so to speak, and I find that I agree with her.

After becoming so used to much better work from both of you, this weeks offerings both seem uninspired.

I could offer a critique, both as to why I chose Erik's photos, and what I disliked about both, but it feels safer if I just leave it at this.

 Yawn..

It's a good thing I'm not petty. If I were, I would be tempted to move over to the coffee shop and give your posts the same treatment.

Bergie

[CShaveRR]

As it happens, I feel pretty much the same way, and have refrained from voting this time (again).

I'm not sure pettiness is the force in play here.  Sometimes we just have bad days, or bad experiences, that affect or alter what we're trying to say.  Lord (and Erik) knows, I've had some lapses in judgement that have caused reprimands, banishments, and losses of friendships (some more valued than others).

Jen's response was vintage Mookie, and on another thread would have been taken in stride.  On this thread, probably a little more should have been said to avoid denegrating the efforts of our two "competitors".

But Erik, don't you know her?  Do you really think she'd deliberately say that two of her friends did lousy, or boring ("yawn") work?  You must have been having a bad experience of your own.  Did I just have an eye-opening vision about another of our members?

[DadH]

Well, sort of like comparing Red Apples to Red Apples; ya' gotta pick a Red Apple. I'll go with Mikes'. DadH

[espeefoamer]

When  I saw Mike's photo,I said wow! Bright shiney GE on a manifest train on a bright sunny,but cold day.There is snow on the walkway on the side of the unit,and snow on the front.Then I saw Erik's shot.Two EMDs with standard cabs pulling a solid string of auto racks.It was a hard descision,but the older units and the solid consist of auto racks won me over to Erik's photo.

Aside to Mookie: Is'nt that just like a cat.Sees two great photos,yawns,and says "I think I'll take a nap now."

[Bergie]

Well,

It reads like you just were, though.

I was under the impression you guys posted this section to get input and the reaction from the readers, be it good, bad or indifferent.

This kinda sound like you would rather not read the criticism or the indifference, with only the "I like" replies being welcome.

I think what Mookie was saying was neither photo lit her fire, so to speak, and I find that I agree with her.

After becoming so used to much better work from both of you, this weeks offerings both seem uninspired.

I could offer a critique, both as to why I chose Erik's photos, and what I disliked about both, but it feels safer if I just leave it at this.

 Yawn..

It's a good thing I'm not petty. If I were, I would be tempted to move over to the coffee shop and give your posts the same treatment.

Bergie

 

Let me try to clear the air...

Below is a portion of an e-mail I sent to Mookie yesterday to clear things up:

----------------------------------------------- 

Mookie, I'm just using you as an example so people can get the idea that they need to be civil to one another. Would you like it if I - or someone else in the forum - added "yawn" as a reply to some of your posts? I think not.

Mike and I let people express their opinion about our photos every single installment. Rarely do we go in and argue with someone over their viewpoint. "Yawn" is rather rude, in my opinion. You're not saying what it is you don't like about the photos, you're just making it sound like we just wasted your time.

Take Akofyholic's post on page 1, for example:

"Sorry guys, didnt cast a vote this time as neither shot did much for me. Composition wise they were equal. Seen these types of shot time after time after time after time ad infinium"

He's in the same boat as you, but at least he's expressing why he didn't care for the photos instead of using "yawn."

[Snip] 

----------------------------------------------- 

My point is that replying to a post with "yawn" is a smack in the face. I rarely go in and refute the comments someone has made about my photos. To the contrary, I think I have rather thick skin when you consider that for the last three years I've been willing to let people vote and comment on my photos. Yes, it is frustrating occassionally; but the comments criticizing a photo are always outweighed by the overall interaction of our readers. Your participation is amazing, so the critiques don't really get me down.

However, when I read "yawn" it just didn't sit well with me. As I explained, I'm open to your comments and critiques, but the yawn comment was a little on the disrespectful side. Leaving my fellings aside, I don't want any of you to disrespect another member like that. If that's the way you feel, just don't post a reply. On the contrary, if you have constructive criticism to share, share it.

I hope this clears everything up.

Bergie

[NightrainAFD1987]

I am more of a silent voter, I see these installments, and usually like what I see. I just don't make my votes public.

But as far as the comment goes, I did think of it as disrespectful as well, seeing that it didn't carry any weight on it's own. And others insisting that people should "get to know the character before placing judgment" doesn't seem right either. Since they are one of the forum regulars from a thread that is more or less....off topic, for lack of a better term

I know about the person in question, and like her. She is a pretty nice person, at the same time, a comment like that can hurt, because the reader, especially new people can get thrown off by reading something like that, feeling disregarded, and not really understanding why. I guess it's more tactful to explain why you agreed, disagreed, or decided not to vote or participate, rather than....."yawn"

So Erik I can understand definitely where you are coming from, and why that comment bothered you.

Again this is just my two cents worth, I surely don't intend to attack anyone with what is being said here.

I guess since I am here I will voice a vote, and I went for Mike's photo, It looked a little more clear, I liked the bright shiny units, and the background suited the image well.  

[edblysard]

I understand...having been used as an example myself.

But, try putting the shoe on the other foot...instead of the bite, why didn't you write exactly what you did in the email, and post it instead of the smack up side the head?

Don't know about you, but my Mom raised me with the understanding that two "wrongs" don't make a "right".

I think what I am trying to get across is that, as the forum moderator, you have to behave in a manner above reproach...kinda lead by example.

In this instance, your example is just as "bad" as what you objected too.

My two cents worth...but you could have emailed her first, expressed your feelings, then waited till she posted a clarified response...then no hurt feelings on either side, no one is publicly embarrassed, and the end result would be the response you were looking for in the first place.

 

And she did apologize...more than most would have offered.

Ah well, I guess we wont see the ear ringed cat around for a while, and I think I have said enough myself.

[wctransfer]

I went with Eriks. More dramatic light, and definately a cooler scene as far as power and the "fog" go.

Alec

[ferroequinologist]

Well, I have to go with Erik... like those autoracks kicking up the snow/dust as they go by; kind of remind me of an Amtrak I got our in Rifle, CO as it came 'round the curve, kicking up all kinds of dust as it whizzed by....

[broarthur]

The shots looked very simular to me this week, I enjoyed them both.  I voted for Mike's shot because the color saturation caught my eye and I thought it was a better shot.  Thanks for the good work that both of you do.

[gabe]

Well,

It reads like you just were, though.

I was under the impression you guys posted this section to get input and the reaction from the readers, be it good, bad or indifferent.

This kinda sound like you would rather not read the criticism or the indifference, with only the "I like" replies being welcome.

I think what Mookie was saying was neither photo lit her fire, so to speak, and I find that I agree with her.

After becoming so used to much better work from both of you, this weeks offerings both seem uninspired.

I could offer a critique, both as to why I chose Erik's photos, and what I disliked about both, but it feels safer if I just leave it at this.

 Yawn..

It's a good thing I'm not petty. If I were, I would be tempted to move over to the coffee shop and give your posts the same treatment.

Bergie

 

Let me try to clear the air...

Below is a portion of an e-mail I sent to Mookie yesterday to clear things up:

----------------------------------------------- 

Mookie, I'm just using you as an example so people can get the idea that they need to be civil to one another. Would you like it if I - or someone else in the forum - added "yawn" as a reply to some of your posts? I think not.

Mike and I let people express their opinion about our photos every single installment. Rarely do we go in and argue with someone over their viewpoint. "Yawn" is rather rude, in my opinion. You're not saying what it is you don't like about the photos, you're just making it sound like we just wasted your time.

Take Akofyholic's post on page 1, for example:

"Sorry guys, didnt cast a vote this time as neither shot did much for me. Composition wise they were equal. Seen these types of shot time after time after time after time ad infinium"

He's in the same boat as you, but at least he's expressing why he didn't care for the photos instead of using "yawn."

[Snip] 

----------------------------------------------- 

My point is that replying to a post with "yawn" is a smack in the face. I rarely go in and refute the comments someone has made about my photos. To the contrary, I think I have rather thick skin when you consider that for the last three years I've been willing to let people vote and comment on my photos. Yes, it is frustrating occassionally; but the comments criticizing a photo are always outweighed by the overall interaction of our readers. Your participation is amazing, so the critiques don't really get me down.

However, when I read "yawn" it just didn't sit well with me. As I explained, I'm open to your comments and critiques, but the yawn comment was a little on the disrespectful side. Leaving my fellings aside, I don't want any of you to disrespect another member like that. If that's the way you feel, just don't post a reply. On the contrary, if you have constructive criticism to share, share it.

I hope this clears everything up.

Bergie

This is wrong on so many levels.  Of all the nasty things that repeat offenders have said to people, to say nothing of the things that have been said of the magazine and Jim Wrinn no less, and this gets flaged!?!

From everything I have seen of Mookie, I cannot for a minute think she meant this malicously.

I really appreciate the photos that Eric and Mike contribute to the web page.  They are a nice refrain from things.  But, this is just so wrong.

When I initially saw Mookie's post, I took it as her saying that the photos aren't as good as your normal work.  Hardly an insult.

Gabe 

[wallyworld]

Dare I say this...but they really are equal in value through my eyes..a draw. I think photography of diesels is a difficult challenge as to pushing one's creativity in framing, lighting, etc...it seems to take more of that when you consider.it takes more in a diesel subject to differentiate one from another..not a criticism of the photographers mind you..but. quite frankly... contemporary motive power, diesels in particular.. all kind of look alike from a strictly aethestic point of view outside of color schemes. That is absolutely why location and context have risen in value when judging a strictly subjective value...ie: where is it? When I read the excellent book on Ted Rose..In The Traces..Thomas Carver noted, since the passing of steam, some of us older heads think that comparatively, a passing train is as interesting as watching a conveyor belt...I think if you had more context..it would have helped both pictures. How about some night shots? Those are always dramatic... 

[Poppa_Zit]

[Goober]

THANK YOU Poppa_Zit!!!

I am not into photography, and even I was not impressed with the photo's this time around.  I realize that it takes quite a bit to always come up with something that is photo quality.  But, I have read a lot of forums, and quite a bit from Mookie, and I never got the impression that she would insinuate "Yawn" as a slap in the face.  It is what it is, Yawn.  Sheesh!!

[Limitedclear]

"Can't we all just get along..."

                           - Rodney King

[CMSTPP]

Erik's photo got my vote. SD60s on an auto train is unheard of. That is getting rarer and rarer. Mikes, nice yes, but I see the power every day. Just not as unique as two older EMD SD60s roaring away with there train. So Erik, NICE photo.

Happy railroading

James

[eolafan]

[Krazykat112079]

I voted for Erik's picture. 

The solid line of the auto carriers behind a battle-hardened loco really caught my eye.  It might be due to an overstimulation of shiny, new locos that pushes me towards the ones that show their age (or heavy usage).  Also, I'm a slight OCD freak and much prefer all the cars to be arranged by height (puts me waaaay behind in MS Train Sim), so mixed freight is not as pleasing to me.

[adrianspeeder]

Erik got my vote with the EMD on the point.

 

Adrianspeeder 

[gannbb1]

Mike!!  For the sharpness of his photo.

[Trainmaster.Curt]

If you wan't to see some unique photos, then check out my photo site at http://trainman.cardboardcreations.net/curtweb/curtpics/curtpics.html I have some unique shots you probably don't commonly see on other sites, and especially some nice ones of our Vintage Train, the Prairie Dog Central.

This one is my personal fav, and my best photo, taken @ 4000X3000 resolution, at 12mp. This year i hope to get some of Old No.3 when it has it's 125th anniversary and after it's 2 year Overhaul.

And please give me some feedback on what you think of this photo, Thank You.

[squeeze]

Being that I am not a RR worker, just a fan, I don't normally post comments. I enjoy (most) all the communications on this site. I am in the company of most people in that the photos are close to the same shots. Not being a pro in photography, I thought that they were about equal in appeal. Most all pics are appreciated as a railfanner. Being that I was married to a non rail fan, I could totally understand Mookie's post. Anything I ever shot that was not kind of outstanding for an amatuer, I would get the same response (yawn). I can also empathise with the photographers, coming up with great shots every time is no easy task, even for the pros. I have read both authors in the past and enjoyed them. That's my 2 cents worth,

Thank you,

Jim