bakupolo wrote: Without diesels, I would not be a railfan! Electric trains are ok to ride on, but they suck as spectator events. There is absolutely NOTHING soul-stirring about a pure electric train.
Without diesels, I would not be a railfan! Electric trains are ok to ride on, but they suck as spectator events. There is absolutely NOTHING soul-stirring about a pure electric train.
Obviously you have never stood trackside when a GG1 roared past at 90+ with a 20 car Florida train in tow. Nor have you been trackside when a Trio of Bricks (E44s) pulled an ore train out of Greenwich Yard. And it appears you never saw a Screamer (E2B) and a P5Am MUed pulling a time freight up the low grade toward Lancaster at no more than a walking pace. The blowers on the Screamer living up to thier name, and the motors on the P5 straining so hard that they shake the ground. Nor have you seen an Amtrak E60 rounding the curve at the lower end of New Brunswick at 80+ and fishtailing so violently that you wonder whether to take the photo or to run. Even watching the parade of MU cars on the PRR or Reading during a snow storm was a treat, pantographs arcing where the ice and snow accumulated on the wire.
JonathanS wrote: bakupolo wrote: Without diesels, I would not be a railfan! Electric trains are ok to ride on, but they suck as spectator events. There is absolutely NOTHING soul-stirring about a pure electric train. Obviously you have never stood trackside when a GG1 roared past at 90+ with a 20 car Florida train in tow. Nor have you been trackside when a Trio of Bricks (E44s) pulled an ore train out of Greenwich Yard. And it appears you never saw a Screamer (E2B) and a P5Am MUed pulling a time freight up the low grade toward Lancaster at no more than a walking pace. The blowers on the Screamer living up to thier name, and the motors on the P5 straining so hard that they shake the ground. Nor have you seen an Amtrak E60 rounding the curve at the lower end of New Brunswick at 80+ and fishtailing so violently that you wonder whether to take the photo or to run. Even watching the parade of MU cars on the PRR or Reading during a snow storm was a treat, pantographs arcing where the ice and snow accumulated on the wire.
I saw all of that, but the P5A and E2B. Great stuff. I remember being in Metropark on a freezing cold morning, no one else around, the air crystal clear... and the rails and catenary starting to sing -- announcing a freight with GG1s, E44s or if you were really lucky, the rare E33s. Man those were all powerful brutes.
JonathanS wrote: Even watching the parade of MU cars on the PRR or Reading during a snow storm was a treat, pantographs arcing where the ice and snow accumulated on the wire.
Arcing of 3,400 vDC on the Milwaukee. Ice on the contact wire on St. Paul Pass. Both pantographs of Little Joe E-70 are up. It was quite a show.
MichaelSol wrote: owlsroost wrote: I think the French decision to develop 50Hz electrification was only partly political (France suffers badly from the 'not-invented-here' syndrome, probably more so than the US).By the 1950's France had a considerable amount of 1.5kV DC electrification (the 1955 rail speed record runs used 1.5kV DC locomotives), but the limitations of the system were becoming apparent in high-power applications (thick and/or double contact wires to handle the high currents, closely spaced feeder stations etc) making it expensive to install.Ironically, one of the largest surviving 1500 vDC systems outside of Holland is in ... France, which retains nearly 6,000 miles of 1500 vDC line, compared to Holland's 2061 miles. Spain, Switzerland, and a few other countries retain some 1500 volt systems. Serbia retains the title, however, with 6,082 miles.While urging everyone else to convert on the basis of economics ... France found little economic justification at home, even as Great Britain was furiously dismantling its 1500 v systems.
owlsroost wrote: I think the French decision to develop 50Hz electrification was only partly political (France suffers badly from the 'not-invented-here' syndrome, probably more so than the US).By the 1950's France had a considerable amount of 1.5kV DC electrification (the 1955 rail speed record runs used 1.5kV DC locomotives), but the limitations of the system were becoming apparent in high-power applications (thick and/or double contact wires to handle the high currents, closely spaced feeder stations etc) making it expensive to install.
I think the French decision to develop 50Hz electrification was only partly political (France suffers badly from the 'not-invented-here' syndrome, probably more so than the US).
By the 1950's France had a considerable amount of 1.5kV DC electrification (the 1955 rail speed record runs used 1.5kV DC locomotives), but the limitations of the system were becoming apparent in high-power applications (thick and/or double contact wires to handle the high currents, closely spaced feeder stations etc) making it expensive to install.
Ironically, one of the largest surviving 1500 vDC systems outside of Holland is in ... France, which retains nearly 6,000 miles of 1500 vDC line, compared to Holland's 2061 miles. Spain, Switzerland, and a few other countries retain some 1500 volt systems. Serbia retains the title, however, with 6,082 miles.
While urging everyone else to convert on the basis of economics ... France found little economic justification at home, even as Great Britain was furiously dismantling its 1500 v systems.
There is no 1500V DC in the former Yugoslavia. Slovenia has 3000 V DC, plus a little piece of 15kV AC near the Austrian border, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia-Hercegovinia, and Macedonia are 25kV AC. The Swiss and Spanish 1500V DC are narrow-gauge lines. France is set to lose a small piece of 1500 V DC near Geneva, Switzerland as the Swiss government is contributing money to upgrade the connection. With the exception of some lines in the area of Switzerland and possibly the line to Italy via the Frejus Tunnel, I think the 1500 V DC is safe for years to come. SNCF has very little interest in investing in anything other than the LGVs (Ligne Grande Vitesse - High-Speed Lines).
bakupolo wrote:There is absolutely NOTHING soul-stirring about a pure electric train.
I sometime's think I was born in the wrong generation as I'd love to see a GG1 roarin' by at 100, or gettin a 40+ mail train rollin' on a hill.
With the current revamp of the Harrisburg - Philly line, the GE oilburners have been replaced with electrics and I'm impressed. Even saw an E60 when I was younger and went wow.
Even though i'm a die hard black smokin' oilburnin' diesel fan, straight up elecric power amazes me and why I'm an Electrical Engineerin' major.
Adrianspeeder
USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
adrianspeeder wrote: bakupolo wrote:. I sometime's think I was born in the wrong generation as I'd love to see a GG1 roarin' by at 100, or gettin a 40+ mail train rollin' on a hill.
bakupolo wrote:.
Randy Stahl wrote:100 miles an hour ... What .. you want to watch it go through a slow order !?!?!?!
AND THE AWARD FOR BEST LINE OF THE DAY GOES TO RANDY STAHL!
I record engine numbers (easy to do with a digital, i just shoot off some pics that will get tossed, but back then, with a pen and a pad of paper). With the GG1s, if a train had more than two units, forget it. There was no way to get the numbers. They flew.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
wallyworld wrote:My favorite ride under catenary was on the CNS&M. After trundling through Green Bay Junction, the motorman would wind out to balancing speed at 80 mph. No air conditioning...windows open...sometimes end doors. When you passed a train bulleting in another direction, the combined speed of the two was felt through an open window....as a jet blast of air..horn blaring for gate crossings, the doppler effect of crossing bells...catenary supports a blur...a feast for the senses...
Sounds great -- we had very similar feeling east coast rides... speedy open window electric cars I got to ride include the Reading Bluebirds, Pennsy MP-54s, Erie Lackawanna whickerliners (actually commuted regurlarly on those), and of course, my favorite, the Bullets and Stafford cars on the Norristown High Speed Line.
I rode in an E60 once on a NYP to Phila clocker. Only locomotive I ever rode where the cab seat armrests were a REQUIREMENT. But, they could pull those long clockers at 90 mph, no sweat.
Even those little Swedish meatballs can be pretty awe-inspiring, too. They'll give you a steady push in the back all the way up to 100 mph. You can actually feel the engineer throttle back at track speed.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Erie Lackawanna wrote: I saw all of that, but the P5A and E2B. Great stuff. I remember being in Metropark on a freezing cold morning, no one else around, the air crystal clear... and the rails and catenary starting to sing -- announcing a freight with GG1s, E44s or if you were really lucky, the rare E33s. Man those were all powerful brutes.
Yes, the sounds of electrics. The singing of the wire, the roar of the blowers, the grind of the traction motors (expecially the old 25 cycle AC motors), and the popping of the pantograph when it momentarily loses contact. And if you were on one of the old PRR owl eyes or a Reading pre Silverliner MU the intermittent thumping of the compressor.
Those P5Am motors sure were ugly. I liked the looks of the straight P5A much better, but I know the crews liked the "m"s better in case there was a collision.
MichaelSol wrote: Ironically, one of the largest surviving 1500 vDC systems outside of Holland is in ... France, which retains nearly 6,000 miles of 1500 vDC line, compared to Holland's 2061 miles. Spain, Switzerland, and a few other countries retain some 1500 volt systems. Serbia retains the title, however, with 6,082 miles.While urging everyone else to convert on the basis of economics ... France found little economic justification at home, even as Great Britain was furiously dismantling its 1500 v systems.
The UK didn't 'furiously dismantle' it's 1500V DC system - there was never very much to start with, just:
London (Liverpool Street) to Shenfield (about 35 miles of quadruple track mainline electrified in 1949) which was converted to 6.25kV 50Hz in 1962 and eventually to 25kV over the next 20 years or so - the justification for this was extension of the electrification by another 50 miles at 25kV 50Hz,
Manchester - Sheffield - Wath (about 60 miles of double track electrified in 1954) which remained 1500V DC until abandonment in 1981 of most of the route - the remainder was converted to 25kV 50Hz,
Manchester - Altrincham (about 9 miles of double track electrified in 1931) which was converted to 25kV 50Hz in 1971 when the equipment needed replacement.
There is actually still some 1500V DC overhead electrification in the UK - the Tyne & Wear Metro system uses it, and some of the track is shared with the national rail system.
There were much bigger plans for 1500V DC electrification in the 1940's/1950's e.g the East and West coast mainlines, but by the time the money became available it had already been decided that 25kV 50Hz was the way forward.
Tony
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