end of steam

[willy6]

i need some help in solving a friendly dispute. my model railroad friend says that UNION PACIFIC was the last operating class 1 steam railroad. i contend that it was NORFOLK WESTERN because of all the coal it had access to. who is right?

[AltonFan]

First off, a steam railroad is a railroad using standard equipment. It is different from an electric railroad, which is often passenger only, and uses equipment inadequate for interchnage service. This distinction was made by regulatory agencies in the interurban era, when many electric lines were essentially long-distance trolley lines with little or no interchange traffic. The Pennsylvannia Railroad, with its electrified divisions, K-4s and M-1s, and early diesels was a steam railroad until it merged with New York Central (by which time both PRR and NYC had dieselized) to form Penn Central, another steam railroad, which never operated a steam locomotive.

(Pedantry rules!)

Now if you are asking which class 1 railroad was the last to operate steam locomotives, the honor belongs to Union Pacific, which still rosters and operates a 4-8-4 and a 4-6-6-4. (And the 4-8-4 has never been retired from service.) Norfolk & Western and the Southern Railway both had operating steam locomotives well into the 1980s, but ultimately, Norfolk Southern cancelled its steam program, and its remaining steam locomotives are on display.

Now if we are talking, regular, revenue service (not excursion trains), it's possible that N&W was the last. But I think Grand Trunk Western may have continued to use steam on commuter trains as late as 1964. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.) I also believe one or another of the Canadian roads continued to use steam in revenue service into the 1960s. The Mexican lines did as well.

[Anonymous]

Of course the Nickle Plate didn't become part of the N&W till 1961.
7/18/1959 The last NKP steam engine in service, the 212, is laid up in Conneaut

http://nkprr.railfan.net/history.html

No. 3985 last operated in "regular" train service in 1957. It was retired in 1962 and stored in the roundhouse in Cheyenne, Wyoming, until 1975, when it was placed on display near the Cheyenne depot. A group of Union Pacific employees volunteered their services to restore the locomotive to running condition in 1981.

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/excurs/up3985.shtml

[ironhorseman]

Well, there's a book called "The Last Steam Railroad in America," but after looking through it much of the text is about how O. Winston Link set up the shots. It's more a lesson in photography than written history of the NW in the 1960s. It's still an excellent book.

I also consulted the book "Cinders & Smoke" (Durango & Silverton's mile by mile guide). I thought I had read somewhere that these steam engines have never been out of service, that they've been in continous operation since the 1870s-80s. But, alas, I can't remember where I read that and I didn't find any such statement in the book. They were once apart of the Rio Grande which was a Class I RR one time.

From what I've learned over the years I'd have to side with AltonFan on this one. UP has never retired their 4-8-4, but the NW the last USA railroad to have the most steam (as a Class I).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan

I also believe one or another of the Canadian roads continued to use steam in revenue service into the 1960s. The Mexican lines did as well.

Actually, both CP and CN stopped using steam in 1960. Of course steam was used for switching at non-railroad industries and short lines well after. Actually, here in North America, we stopped using steam long before most other countries. In Britain it was 1968. Porbably every other country in the world was using steam past 1970. In fact, in 1971 over 55% of the world's trains were still hauled by steam locomotives.

[Modelcar]

....I won't try to quote who was last to use steam but will give a little insight on an experience. I entered a troop train on the northwest coast at Seattle to travel to the east coast back in 1954 and as we traveled I kept a very close lookout for steam engines all the way across America. Obviously this took several days and we were held for an unknown reason in the Chicago area yards for four hours and eventually ended up in Ft. Meade, Md. where I was separated from the service. On that total trip of probably 3000 miles I saw a total of eight...[8], steam engines [including any I saw in the Chicago yards]. So the writing was on the wall...they were on the way out in use on main line operations at that time.

[bigboy4024]

in my books they say the GTwas the last passenger service in the early 1960's and the N&W was the last mainline freightin the late 60's early 70's big boy

[dknelson]

This is a technicality but the mighty Burlington Northern had a steam locomotive, in continuous service, at a tie plant well into the 1970s BUT it was not "revenue" service (I think it was lettered BN however!). And from time to time excursion steam engines have been pressed into revenue service, and the UP often has its steam engines pull freight when they go from location to location. So the answer to this question is largely a matter of defining terms.
Dave Nelson

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Colorado & Southern ran steam into 1961 or 1962. NKP last steam was some 0-8-0's at Calumet Yard in 1960. NdeM ran 4-8-4's around Mexico City into 1968.

[Anonymous]

The last steam locomotives to run in the US for non-railfan purposes were at Northwestern Steel & Wire in Steerling, Illinois. They used 16 former GTW 0-8-0's until the early 80's. They were donated to the IRM, but unfortunately not all of them ended up being preserved. For the whole story go to http://lostengines.railfan.net/morelost.htm .

Steam almost came back in the late 70's/early 80's with the ACE project. Because of the high prices of diesel fuel there were plans to build modern coal burning steam locomotives, wich would save an awful lot of money on fuel costs. BN and Chessie were going to participate in this and the steam locomotives got really close to being built, but unfortunately it didn't happen. The only downside was that the plans for them looked just like a diesel on a steam locomotives frames rather than a conventional steam engine. Go to www.trainweb.org/tusp/ult.html . I'd have loved to see this actually happen. Just imagine how different railroading might be today if it had.

[dharmon]

On the link, the photo caption shows them in Galt, Ill. Wasn't John Galt the name of the railroad in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged? HMMMM ...there's that conspiracy thing again...

[dknelson]

I saw those Northwestern Steel and Wire 0-8-0s in Galt (which also has a neat bridge on the CNW/UP main). They got rusty fast -- I had also seen them in service. I believe they were former GTW engines. Somehow I could not find them this summer when I drove through "town" (Galt is a farm community). There is a preserved 0-8-0 in Sterling itself.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

How long did D&RGW run thier 2-8-2s to Silverton before they sold off that line? It was well into the '60s if not the '70s.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

D&RGW abandoned the Alamosa-Durango and Durango-Farmington narrow gauge lines in 1968. This was the last narrow-gauge besides the Durango-Silverton line. I'm not sure when that line was sold.
The Alamosa-Antonito line was dual-gauge. Only the narrow gauge was abandoned.

[Anonymous]

There are still steam locomotives in regular service in India. I am thinking of the Darjeeling-Himalayan Railway. I also read recently that Cuba still uses steam during the sugar cane harvest and in fact had China renovate all their 70 year or more old locomotives.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Scottydog

There are still steam locomotives in regular service in India. I am thinking of the Darjeeling-Himalayan Railway. I also read recently that Cuba still uses steam during the sugar cane harvest and in fact had China renovate all their 70 year or more old locomotives.

I hate to say this, but most of the steam you're talking about is gone now. Indian Railways quite using steam in 2000. The Darjeeling-Himalayan Railway has also recently dieselized (I'm still fuming over this!!!!!!!). They're using some small diesels obtained from the Festiniog Ry. in Wales, but have changed the horns so that they sound like the whistle of the old steamers (like that makes a difference). The worst part is that the railway was recently declared a World Heritage Site just before they dieselized. This really angers me. They can probably kiss most of the tourism on the line goodbye now that steam's gone.

Cuba's many sugar mills used steam for hauling cane which were mainly early American-built engines. There is some steam left, but it's hardly anything when compared to before. The engines would get worked during the Zafra (sugar harvest). The Zafra of 2003 was an absolute disaster for railfans (Zafra of 2002 still had lots and lots of steam). The reason for this is because international sugar prices dropped dramatically and as a result, over half of the sugar mills in Cuba closed.

A very excellent site to check out for information on all the steam locomotives still running in the world today is http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/internat.htm . It's by far the best site on the net for information in surviving steam, which there is actually a lot more of than most would think!

[jeffhergert]

I agree with those posting the DRGW. It may have been narrow gauge but they were a class 1 railroad. I believe the Durango - Silverton line was sold in 1981.

[Anonymous]

Sask_Tinplater. I am so bloody sorry to hear that. In 1978, my company was asked to bid on a job for Tata Chemicals so I took the opportunity to go to India to be part of the negotiating team. The Indians were very cordial and took me to all the sights I wanted to see in particular, the Darjeeling Railway. What a ride, you could walk faster but not for as many miles as this 'little engine that could' up such large climbs. I'm with you, I am really teed off they got rid of that little steamer.