Ohio Runaway Train

[Anonymous]

Anyone have any comments regarding the recent unmanned CSX train out of Toledo, OH? (See link to article from trains.com homepage)

[Anonymous]

HoboDave2
How can that happen? Thought someone had to hold the throttle at all times?

[GerFust]

I'm not that into railfaning, but am curious. I thought that the engineering had to have some activity in the cab (speed change, brake, horn, etc.) within a given period of time or some safety device would kick in. Here's my question - does the engineer leave the throttle 'in gear' while stopped, even if the brakes are set?

[wabash1]

the saftey device is a alerter if not reset by hitting the whisker or sanders horn bail independant throttle movement then we get a penalty applacation of the brakes. as far as in gear when stopped i center the reverser. now some railroads have been experamenting with romote control units. for road use. think about this if you get hit at a crossing and no body is on the engine at 3am in the morning . whos gonna know you were hit. who gonna get you help.

[Anonymous]

some older engines do not have alerters installed. the alerter is a rather new invention, it's been with us for many years but a lot of old engines still in use within yards do not have them. When an engineer leaves a cab of any engine they are to set the brakes, center the reverser, and shut the generator feild off. If the engine is shut down, brakes applied to head locomotive. Air alone is not to be relied on to hold a train. If the engineer was ill of injured and could not do any of these things then another engineer would be asked by a yardmaster and/or trainmaster to secure the train, a lot of times the conductor or brakeman will do it, under some supervision by the engineer to speed up the proccess. If in an emergency setting if all else failes set the train in emergency application of the air. It will be very INTERESTING to find out what really happened IF CSX will even tell!!

[drgwandsp]

If these engines don't have alerters, what about deadman's pedals?

[wabash1]

ok what i said earlier was true about the romote control units. but at work that topic come up and straight from the road forman mouth the engineer got off that train for reasons unclear. with the throttle in notch 3 or4 and the train left him and it went 66 miles before they got it stop, i wont get into much more detail than that. and as far as dead man pedals those are gone. that could be blocked down anyways. but there are some engines with no saftey devices on them and this csx train was one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anyone got any pics of the train itself? There was a small amount on the news yesterday, but was late getting in, so missed it!

[GerFust]

Try http://www.msnbc.com/news/573748.asp. Yesterday they had the video from the news story, but I can't find it today. Perhaps you'll have better luck. Note the second engineer climbing into the cab.

[Soo2610]

This web page had a pretty good article that brought out some additional information in today's news wire update. It is probably more accurate than anything in the papers which are trying to make us think this was a trainload of hazardous materials careening through peaceful neighborhood backyards just barely missing the back end of the houses!

[Anonymous]

Tried to find the site you suggested; no luck. Thanks anyway.

[Anonymous]

The reason why the CSXT 8888 (CR 6410) is because it was a modified unit in designated service when it was on Conrail before the merger. The CR 6410 was in Pennsylvania Power & Light's Strawberry Ridge power plant coal service. The alertors, and yes they had them, were modified to permit "free standing" of the train while dumping of rotary dump cars and positioning by power plant equipment. No independent nor automatic brake is applied during the unload except on the last few cars. So the alertors were set up to not to apply the brakes when the engineer was not there or when the train was moving. Apperently CSX did not know that when they acquired the locomotive from the merger. Hope that clarified one aspect of the situation that happened in Ohio.

[Anonymous]

Hi, I checked into this website to see if there was any info on the recent CSX incident. My husband was the engineer on the 8392, the engine that "caught" the runaway. He read with interest this article describing the happenings of the day. He says it is correct and well detailed. He also says he's glad it's over!

[edtrain]

Hi Holly,
Thanks for posting the comments from your husband.
Please tell him that he did a HE** of a job in coupling on the end of the moving train. I worked in train service many years ago and I can tell you that it is a tricky maneuver at the best.
He has my full admiration and respect. He is one of the heroes of this incident. Thank you.
Best wishes, Ed of Cincy

[Soo2610]

Holly, It's kind of nice to hear from someone actually involved in the incident and even better to know that the reports we are reading on this web page are accurate. My congratulations to your husband on a job well done! I'm sure he wore out your ears telling you about it.

[Anonymous]

Hi Hollie,

Well done to your husband! I hope CSX gave all three an extra month's pay or something - they deserve it.

[Anonymous]

What I have read on CXS's site is that the engineer was supposed to have set three different brakes, but set the throttle at Run 3 or 4 instead of setting the third brake. The only brakes I know of (I'm no expert) are the train brake, independent engine brake, and dynamic brake. Is there another? Can someone enlighten me?

[PaulWWoodring]

CSX's handout for employees on the incident states that the engineer of the train (Y160) was warned about a switch against him while pulling out a cut of cars to either kick or hump and apparently forgot about it until he was almost to it. Since this was a switching move none of the cars had air connected to them. Trying to prevent a run-through switch (typically a minor infraction that usually gets the crew a slap on the wrist) the engineer applied the independent fully, took 20 lbs. off the automatic brake (probably a knee-jerk reaction, since the train brakes weren't connected), and thought he was putting the train into full dynamic, but instead opened the throttle to run 8, thinking the sound he was hearing was the fan on the dynamic grid starting, but was really the engine revving up. He then got off the moving loco and ran to throw the switch, realizing too late that it was in power and not dynamic, tried to reboard the engine, but slipped and was draggeed 50-80 ft. before dropping off. Even if the unit was equiped with an alerter, it would not have functioned because the independent brake was fully applied. At the end of this memo the company gave a long list of rule violations involved. So in trying to prevent a minor infraction the engineer really put his foot in it, and will probably have a long unpaid vacation to think about it. He may get "fired" for awhile, but as most railroaders know it's hard to permanently get rid of an employee short of them murdering someone.

For a really good explanation of what happened go to WWW.washingtonpost.com, type in Don Phillips in search and click on his article about the incident. As usual, he does a great job of explaining the whole thing.

[Anonymous]

The diesel engine starts to rev up when the dynamic brake is set up so that there will be current generated for the cooling fan for the grids. It would sound the same whether the throttle is opened up or the dynamic brake is set up and opened.

[Anonymous]

Well I hate to say it as an engineer myself, but a man with 30+years of experience certainly knows the difference between the dynamic brake an the throttle, something sounds fishy about this to me.
for one thing depending on which control stand this engine had, the throttle and dynamic brake handles work in opposite directions. if it had the older style stand with a selector lever then they do work in the same direction, however, it would do you no good to put the unit in dynamics with the independant fully set, as there is an interlock, called the dynamic brake interlock (dbi) that virtually knocks out the dynamic brakes (except a very small amount) when the independant brake has more than 20psi on it. more than likely what happened is he hit the throttle with his hip or leg as he was getting up to go line the switch, this would nock the throttle in the right direction, unfortunately he probably figured he could save a step and just left it opened. then the train would slowly come to him as he lined the switch, got back on and back to work, saving the steps back to the engine. i would say it just got too fast for him, or he miss stepped trying to get back on. the story he is telling doesn't sound like the truth. but stranger things have happened.

[wabash1]

the story was fishy from the start. that is why i havent wrote anymore about it. everything you said about the dynamic,independant,and if he did put the automatic on the dynamic canceled it out for the engines only. the rule violations alone are enough to get the man fired. i just wonder what the fra is going to do.

[Anonymous]

What about the engineer that drove the "catch" engine? He deserves as much recognition as the guy who jumped on the runaway. Both of them are heros. But think about the other engineer that would have been sucked up into the fireball if the train derailed.

[wabash1]

the original plan of the csx was to derail the train but when they thought about the hazardous material on the train they decided on option 2 and eveyone knows the out come of that. its all in a days work.