GEs GEVO are a pile of junk

[chicagorails]

well fer around 500,000 dollars a unit less than gm whacha expect !!!

[wctransfer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by samfp1943

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

Good thing G.E. doesn't make airplanes....Whoa, they DO make airplane engines....oh, boy!

Well it might be the time for General Electric to start BACK, putting their jet engines in locomotives again!![:D] All the railroads would lhave to do is not stop them under stuff that was sensitive to high temperatures and, oh, yes, run them where noise is not a problem[:D]. Rename the engineer position to pilot, and on that basis renegotiate all the work agreements [banghead][4:-)][censored], just look at the money saved![:-,]
Sam

Lol, i can see it now........

Yard Master: Its a bird, its a plane, oh ***!, thats the Z train!

Alec[:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Don't buy into the rumors that GE locomotives do this on a regular basis , I have patched 100s of EMD crankcases after a rod came through the block. Working on 645 , 20 cylinder engines I have seen lots af broken crankshafts too .
I have spent enough time around the SD80-mac and the Sd -90 mac to know that they have some serious electrical issues.
This particular GEVO had connecting rod failure, this is so far the first one I have heard of , doesn't sound to me like Ge has a quality problem yet . In fact if you ask people in the know, EMD is suffering the bulk of the QC problems.

I don't think GEs do this on a regular basis. But this connecting rod failure was just a freak thing. It could happen to any engine. EMD ain't perfect- a MRL SD70ACe had a sensor go defective and then it can't tell if the wheels are slipping and then the wheels started slipping and it burned the rails. But after that MRL still bought SD70ACEs.

GE is just trying to get too much power out of 12 cylinders. It can be done, but I think they should have done a little more testing. Just looks at ALCo PAs. They had one 2000 HP engine which was ahead of it's time (as far as how much power can be extracted) they threw rods quite a bit. Again, if they had been tested a little more this MIGHT not happen.

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE:
The C-30-7s have been exported to South America, THAT's why you don't see them running here.

And also into Estonia, Europe, and Gabon, Africa

Dominique

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddechamp71

QUOTE:
The C-30-7s have been exported to South America, THAT's why you don't see them running here.

And also into Estonia, Europe, and Gabon, Africa

Dominique

Estonia got a fleet of C36-7s

[eolafan]

We have been maligning the G.E. GEVO units, and perhaps that is justified (I am not enough of a RR technician to know whether or not it is justified), but don't most of us agree that just about everything we buy and use today is built to a lower standard of quality than that which was built long ago? We are basically a "throw away" society and just about nothing gets repaired of fixed these days. Comments (wow, what a hornet's nest this one will open)?[soapbox]

[kenneo]

EMD's H-block and the GEVO put out the same HP per cyclinder. The H-block gets 6600 HP out of 16 and 4400 out of 12.

What causes a crankcase explosion is when the blow-by gasses don't properly vent. Then the pressure increase eventually blows off the crankecase inspection covers. Real mess. Bent sheet metal.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddechamp71

QUOTE:
The C-30-7s have been exported to South America, THAT's why you don't see them running here.

And also into Estonia, Europe, and Gabon, Africa

Dominique

Estonia got a fleet of C36-7s

Used GEs are not a sought after item here in the states. The SD40-2s are still in high demand despite their age. (That just shows how well they were originally built.) Therefore the GEs can be purchased for much, much less and sent overseas.

[Anonymous]

If you want to hear more things that are wrong with the GEVO take the fact the GE company is so cheap in building these brand new engines that the air flow meter that is on these units "that measures the amount of air being pushed from the head end to the rear of the train in cubic feet per minute" but anyways the device they installed for the air flow came from the old C-30 and now they are malfunctioning. When temperatures get cold "like only in the 10's" ,and the engineer releases the air the flow will go up like it should then as the air pumps up on the train the flow comes down, but the screw up is when it gets down all of a sudden it will shoot back up, and after this happens about 3 times on a dp unit the unit will isolate its self, and that unit is just 146,000 pounds of dead weight on the rear end. The dynamic breaks suck also. The DC version of the GEVO takes forever for the dynamic brakes to start working, then when is finally starts working it only goes up about 4 amps at a time until it gets about 15-20 amps then finally takes off now that I picked up so much speed that I had to grab air in its absence. The AC version can't even hold the rail when it needs to. Getting down at about 20 mph to when you get stopped the wheels slip, the engine starts jumping up and down and about feels like the engine is on the ground. Never mind using the sand to help the slipping you can't until you are at 15 mph. Good job BNSF lets buy more of this STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!!

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfengineer

If you want to hear more things that are wrong with the GEVO take the fact the GE company is so cheap in building these brand new engines that the air flow meter that is on these units "that measures the amount of air being pushed from the head end to the rear of the train in cubic feet per minute" but anyways the device they installed for the air flow came from the old C-30 and now they are malfunctioning. When temperatures get cold "like only in the 10's" ,and the engineer releases the air the flow will go up like it should then as the air pumps up on the train the flow comes down, but the screw up is when it gets down all of a sudden it will shoot back up, and after this happens about 3 times on a dp unit the unit will isolate its self, and that unit is just 146,000 pounds of dead weight on the rear end. The dynamic breaks suck also. The DC version of the GEVO takes forever for the dynamic brakes to start working, then when is finally starts working it only goes up about 4 amps at a time until it gets about 15-20 amps then finally takes off now that I picked up so much speed that I had to grab air in its absence. The AC version can't even hold the rail when it needs to. Getting down at about 20 mph to when you get stopped the wheels slip, the engine starts jumping up and down and about feels like the engine is on the ground. Never mind using the sand to help the slipping you can't until you are at 15 mph. Good job BNSF lets buy more of this STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!!

Sounds like you have issue with Westinghouse airbrake as far as your flow meter problems, I think Westinghouse is online ! www.wabtec.com

[Randy Stahl]

Curious how long you have been running trains , bnsf ?

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfengineer

If you want to hear more things that are wrong with the GEVO take the fact the GE company is so cheap in building these brand new engines that the air flow meter that is on these units "that measures the amount of air being pushed from the head end to the rear of the train in cubic feet per minute" but anyways the device they installed for the air flow came from the old C-30 and now they are malfunctioning. When temperatures get cold "like only in the 10's" ,and the engineer releases the air the flow will go up like it should then as the air pumps up on the train the flow comes down, but the screw up is when it gets down all of a sudden it will shoot back up, and after this happens about 3 times on a dp unit the unit will isolate its self, and that unit is just 146,000 pounds of dead weight on the rear end. The dynamic breaks suck also. The DC version of the GEVO takes forever for the dynamic brakes to start working, then when is finally starts working it only goes up about 4 amps at a time until it gets about 15-20 amps then finally takes off now that I picked up so much speed that I had to grab air in its absence. The AC version can't even hold the rail when it needs to. Getting down at about 20 mph to when you get stopped the wheels slip, the engine starts jumping up and down and about feels like the engine is on the ground. Never mind using the sand to help the slipping you can't until you are at 15 mph. Good job BNSF lets buy more of this STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!!

[|(] Now let's not hold back...please tell us how you REALLY feel.

[zardoz]

Give me a few SD40-2's any day. The only thing I didn't like about them was that the whistle was mounted right above the cab.

[Anonymous]

I've been a engineer for 4 years and with the railroad for 8 years.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by farmer03

maybe you could elaborate some on the crankcase overpressure...?

Now as far as telling you what gets overpressure on the crankcase. I am not sure what exactly happens, but I will give you an exert out of the mechanical book the railroad gives us. "The diesel engine crankcase normally operates at a vacuum. If pressure is detected in the crankcase, the device will cause the LOW OIL button to protrude for the governor, and the diesel engine will shut down." That all it tells us. Like our instructor told us we are paid to run the trains not to be a machinist.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Curious how long you have been running trains , bnsf ?

Hmmmmm....

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: What causes a crankcase explosion is when the blow-by gasses don't properly vent. Then the pressure increase eventually blows off the crankecase inspection covers. Real mess. Bent sheet metal.

That's what I wanted to know.

QUOTE: The AC version can't even hold the rail when it needs to. Getting down at about 20 mph to when you get stopped the wheels slip, the engine starts jumping up and down and about feels like the engine is on the ground. Never mind using the sand to help the slipping you can't until you are at 15 mph. Good job BNSF lets buy more of this STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!!

Maybe BNSF won't buy GE after they see how nice their SD70ACes are.

bnsfengineer I'd like to know what you think of DASH 9-44CWs and AC4400s too.

[Anonymous]

ah ha...too much blow by. gotcha. hole in the piston, bad rings, bad valve guides...yada yada yada.

a while back we had a tractor w/an N14 come-a-part with a bad injector sleeve causing excessive blow by, enough pressure to blow oil out past many of the seals. luckily there are 3 heads on the motor and the offending head (middle one) ended up being junk. professional out of frame rebuild my ***.

[swknox]

All new introductions of new products esp. anything mechanical will take time to work out the bugs. Anytime there is a new car brought out on the market everyone knows to wait a year so the company can work out the bugs. edbenton's post (page 1) about the small block engines in the trucking industry was right on but now some of these high horse power engines are so small that one could almost put one in a nice size pickup truck. And speaking of pickups when Ford Introduced the new Diesel 6.0 Powerstroke in 2004 made by Ford and International they also ran into problems for the first year and a half with problems with the injector units on the motor but now they are once again the most reliable diesels on the road - sorry chevy fans but this is a proven fact[bow] . Just look at the statistics from the intro of the powerstorke in 1994 and how many are still on the road (98.5%) vs. chevys diesel, or dodge for that matter. But I think that GM did design a better diesel than GE for a new locomotive even though GM dosen't own EMD anymore[V] SHAWN

[petervonb]

Well bnsfengineer can look forward to better days.

BNSF bought GEs for years because they were darned if they were going to buy anything from General Motors after GM took ALL the auto and parts transport business and gave it to UP!

Now that EMD is no longer owned by GM, BNSF is back at the EMD store, buying up tons of new EMD units.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: BNSF bought GEs for years because they were darned if they were going to buy anything from General Motors after GM took ALL the auto and parts transport business and gave it to UP!

That explains why they have 1700 DASH 9s.

[trainfan1221]

I think NS needs a little variety, personally. Now I have a question about the already mentioned problem of engine imbalance. Didn't some railroads downgrade locos by simply depowering half the cylinders, or were the piston assemblies removed? I also seem to remember, and this is a stretch if I'm wrong, that there were locos that could shut down cylinders when moving to save fuel. Maybe I dreamed it.... Anybody have info on this?

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

We have been maligning the G.E. GEVO units, and perhaps that is justified (I am not enough of a RR technician to know whether or not it is justified), but don't most of us agree that just about everything we buy and use today is built to a lower standard of quality than that which was built long ago? We are basically a "throw away" society and just about nothing gets repaired of fixed these days. Comments (wow, what a hornet's nest this one will open)?[soapbox]

The term from several years back was DESIGNED OBSELENCE, at least that was what the automotive types called it, when they figured that the cars were lasting too long.
Sam

[espeefoamer]

Check bnsfkline's post on catastrophic engine failure[:0][B)]!

[Anonymous]

The GEVO's have had a lot of growing pains since arriving on the property. I think this coupled with EMD's seperation from GM, as well as their increase in horsepower to 4300 has spurred BNSF to go back to EMD after 7 years of snubbing. I wouldnt expect BNSF to stop buying GE anytime soon, but if the sd70aces perform, and if EMD can meet production demands (which it really can't right now), I would expect BNSF to return to EMD for SOME of their locomotive needs.

I predict that BNSF will be buying strictly AC for the foreseeable future. Coal business is booming, and DC locomotives don't like grinding up a hill at 8 miles per hour. They did the right thing by getting as many Dash 9s as they could before the new EPA regulations went into effect, and they now have their core DC fleet in the Dash 9s, Dash 8s, and remaining SD40s. Once there are enough new ACs to meet coal demand, perhaps the SD60Ms and SD75Ms can be released into normal service, and more SD40s can be retired.

The Dash 9s are reliable and perform well on intermodal and manifest trains with good hpt. They are not meant to be in coal service, and therefore an engineer in coal service would likely see them as junk, because they just aren't designed for grinding up a hill. I dont know about GE's AC locos, but junk or not, they are just going to keep coming, because GE can crank out the locomotives to meet BNSF's demand. And if 1 in 30 of them fails, que sera, the coal still needs power to move it.

Just my humble opinion.

[Anonymous]

VERY well said.

[james saunders]

any of you engineers taken a dash 8 for a spin before? and what are the older GEs like 7s and 8 like compared to todays Ges where the older ones any better/worse?

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfengineer

Well GE just keeps there awesome fleet just rolling right off of the assembly line. Coming back from Lincoln to K.C. an empty grain train with a new ES44DC BNSF 7640 blew up. The unit got a crank case overpressure, pretty nice for a new unit. Take these GE's and scrap them all. GM is the way to go.
All the GE is good for is giving the engineer a headache. All the rattleing, shaking, of the console, now that just in the cab, let alone the fact GE cannot produce a unit that can grip the rail like the GM units do.

When the latest GEs are scrapped, there will probably be rebuilt SD38/40 series still out there going strong. :-)

Dave
http://www.dpdproductions.com
- Featuring the TrainTenna Railroad Scanner Antennas -

[Anonymous]

It just has to be said, there's a reason why over half the deisels on the planet are powered if not built by EMD, and you don't have to ask why.

[Anonymous]

I Agree with randy and dingoix. This could happen to any engine. Persinaly, I realy like the CW45AC's, there my favorite Engine. :P Infact, I heard lately that GEVOS And GE-CW45 locomotives have been doing pretty good lately. (Sept for BNSF engineer of coarse :( By the way, In all honesty I think ES44AC's do better than DC's.