Why should Amtrak cook there food ON the Train When they could just order Ahead and have catering?

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

WATCH OUT Dan or they'll throw you to the WeeeBlows...LOL...

LC

Is there a Food Service Merit badge?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

WATCH OUT Dan or they'll throw you to the WeeeBlows...LOL...

LC

Is there a Food Service Merit badge?

Yes...but the scouts have to join the union to get it...

[UPTRAIN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

WATCH OUT Dan or they'll throw you to the WeeeBlows...LOL...

LC

Is there a Food Service Merit badge?

Yes...but the scouts have to join the union to get it...

Pay the dues, kid.[xx(]

[cnw4001]

I've got a better idea, let's go back to the Fred Harvey model. Stop and everyone gets off the train, goes inside and eats and the train is back on the way in 30 minutes. ATSF pulled that off for years.

Or then there's the system used in India where they take the order, it is sent ahead and you get your meal when the train arrives at the station where the food is prepared.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

WATCH OUT Dan or they'll throw you to the WeeeBlows...LOL...

LC

Is there a Food Service Merit badge?

Yeah, you have to cook smores and use a dutch oven in the woods to get it though...

LC

[conrailman]

Amtrak Should Hire TGI Fridays or Denny to run the Dining Car?

[Puckdropper]

QUOTE:
Or then there's the system used in India where they take the order, it is sent ahead and you get your meal when the train arrives at the station where the food is prepared.

The dispatchers don't get to eat until Amtrak is to the station also! That'll solve the on-time problem too. : - )

[UPTRAIN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman

Amtrak Should Hire TGI Fridays or Denny to run the Dining Car?

That sounds good, but if they wouldn't even let Subway do it, I doubt that would work.

[daveklepper]

1. The concept would work in the corridors, where trips are short, economy of scale applies, and the caterers could be located right at or across the street from or next door to the stations. No reason at all. Some railroads actually did this. I once rode a Southern or Seabord train in the late 50's or early 60's between Atlanta and Birmingham, not the Southerner or the Silver Comet, where the conductor took orders and box lunches were delivered at a stop down the line. If a privatized Milwaukee - Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City corridor operation were to be set up, this is one way to make it profitable. (Hourly trains Milwaukee - Chicago - St. Lous, with every two hours extended to KC., stops at Milwaukee Airport, Glenview, Joliet, Bloomington, Springield, Independence. Not all trains make all stops.)

Long distance trains are an entirely different issue for the reasons discussed. The Empire Builder regularly carries extra food just in case of a real delay or tie-up in winter.

[Modelcar]

....We actually do have a McDonald's line side here in Muncie....on NS Frankfort line as it enters Muncie....
Item: Yesterday we were setting in a "family restaurant " right across the street from the east / west CSX route..{ex. Conrail, double track line}, and one train went east and not far behind came another one creeping forward and stopped right adjacent to the restaurant and it pulled to a stop...I figured it was at a stop signal being too close to first train..{just my guess}, and one of the crew climbed down from the lead engine and hiked to another restaurant on the other side of the tracks and brought back two super sized cups of coffe....So that was a convienient stop......

[passengerfan]

Many years ago Continemtal Trailways Golden Eagle Bus service between Seattle and Los Angeles served soup, sandwiches and drinks on the buses and the stewardess passed around a breakfast menu in the evening with three or four choices. The next AM the bus stopped and passengers got off the bus to have their breakfast in a cafe cnd everything was ready when the passengers sat down.
Rode a WP RDC between Oakland and Salt Lake City that all meals were served at station stops so don't see why it couldn't work.
Look at the old Harvey Houses where passengers left the Santa Fe trains and went into the station to eat then reboarded the train to continue their trip.
The dining cars have always been labor intensive the PRR at one time had few through dining cars instead they only operated in the trains during meal hours. They were still labor intensive and then they had to switch them in and out.
I read somewhere where one of the western roads only had dining car crews aboard during meal hours between certain stations but can't find the article right now.

[Anonymous]

In the hopes of making some sence back to the topic I started...
Catering Amtraks Trains is not a new Idea. Airlines have been doing this for years and have large catering companies that specialise in doing just that. I interviewed with one such companie that was based at Hopkins International Airport In Cleveland. They told me that one of the benifits was free airline travel on Continetal. The Conrail mainline tracks that Amtrak uses goes right past the airport. The ides that everyone would want to eat at the same time or would want to is antiquaited.
Hardly anybody I know eats at 6:00 and works a 9 to 5 job....More Likly they get off work at 3:00 ant eat supper at 4 or 5 or 8:00... The idea of a big sit down dinner unfortulatly is also becoming a thing of the past. There was a Book I saw on the value of a family Dinner and how it can rebuild familys.
May people are single and live from Microwave Dinner to Microwave Dinner. I dont expect much on Amtrak other then to get from A to B To C...Just let me buy or bring my own Lean Cuisine Microwave dinners and let me or the attendend zap them in the Microwave. Have Microwave on every railroad car

[Anonymous]

I took an Amtraks train from New York City to Fort Lauderdale Florida a couple of years ago. All they had was snack bar with stale prefab sandwiches, coffee, and soft drinks. Twenty seven hour trip. They wouldn't even let you in the car except for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the evening.

[TomDiehl]

Wow Turk, things have certainly improved since you rode the Amtrak trains. Full Dining Car service on most long distance trains is certainly a step up from what you describe. What I had to eat on the Empire Builder last August could easily rival the best restaurants.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

Wow Turk, things have certainly improved since you rode the Amtrak trains. Full Dining Car service on most long distance trains is certainly a step up from what you describe. What I had to eat on the Empire Builder last August could easily rival the best restaurants.

I think he probably took the Palmetto, which was primarily a daylight train points in the southeast, so it didn't carry a dining car. It was recently "improved" by cutting it back to Savannah, GA.

What's interesting is that the cafe car wasn't open for business very often. Exactly what was the attendant doing the rest of the time?

[domefoamer]

I wonder if the figures on the food services "loss" account for the free meals to first class passengers. When I rode the CZ last spring, I paid for one night's room and got free meals. I knew I was paying big bucks for more than that tiny (but delightful) room. Do Amtrak's accountants know that?

I you ride the CZ through the barren Green River desert and Nevada's Great Basin, you realize that catering companies aren't found anywhere within a hundred miles of the line between Grand Junction, Reno and Truckee. And given a high rate of unpredictable delays, it's essential that a passenger train travels self-sufficiently. Remember the City of San Francisco, stranded in the snow for three days? Think that could never happen again?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by domefoamer

I wonder if the figures on the food services "loss" account for the free meals to first class passengers. When I rode the CZ last spring, I paid for one night's room and got free meals. I knew I was paying big bucks for more than that tiny (but delightful) room. Do Amtrak's accountants know that?

I you ride the CZ through the barren Green River desert and Nevada's Great Basin, you realize that catering companies aren't found anywhere within a hundred miles of the line between Grand Junction, Reno and Truckee. And given a high rate of unpredictable delays, it's essential that a passenger train travels self-sufficiently. Remember the City of San Francisco, stranded in the snow for three days? Think that could never happen again?

I'm sure Amtrak's accountants know exactly how many 1st class meals of what kind they serve and what it costs them. I'm sure the diner gets credit for these meals.

100 miles is two hours by train or highway. There are at least two strategies for dealing with delays. Either you have secondary suppliers or your primary suplier meets the train where it is (or will be) - they have to deliver to the train in some sort of vehicle anyway. They could do it anywhere there is highway access to the railroad. Not an insurmountable logistical problem.

Amtrak trains don't stock extra food as it is. When seriously delayed, they run out of food. I remember a story about the Cal Zephyr just a few years ago where it derailed and was delayed over 24 hours and ran out of food.

Apparently Amtrak is already starting do a form of what we've been talking about. Guess it isn't so ridiculous after all.....

TEXAS EAGLE AND CITY OF NEW ORLEANS MENUS

TRAINS 21/22, THE TEXAS EAGLE, TRAINS 58/59, THE CITY OF
NEW ORLEANS, AND THE PORTION OF TRAINS 421/422 BETWEEN
CHICAGO AND SAN ANTONIO, NOW HAVE A DIFFERENT MENU THAN
THE REST OF THE LONG DISTANCE TRAINS.

MEALS, PREPARED OFF THE TRAIN, ARE SERVED ON CHINA
WITH CHINA CUPS, GLASSWARE, AND STAINLESS STEEL
FLATWARE.

TRAINS 21, 22, 58, 59, 421, 422

THESE TRAINS SERVE PREPLATED MEALS IN THE DINING CAR, AND
USE THE MENU ON THE NEXT THREE PAGES, NOT THE REGULAR
DINING CAR MENUS.

THERE ARE TWO CYCLES, ONE FOR EACH TRAIN SET NOTED.

TRAINS 421/422 USE THESE MENUS BETWEEN CHI AND SAS.
BETWEEN SAS AND LAX, SEE THE MENUS FOR TRAINS 1/2.

ALTHOUGH THE MEALS ARE PREPARED OFF THE TRAIN, THEY ARE
SERVED ON CHINA. BEVERAGES ARE IN CHINA CUPS OR IN
GLASSES, AND REGULAR STAINLESS STEEL FLATWARE IS USED.
CLOTH NAPKINS ARE PROVIDED, AND THERE ARE TABLECLOTHS.

BREAKFAST - TRAINS 21, 59, 421 CHI-SAS

WESTERN OMELET, PORK SAUSAGE, BREAKFAST POTATOES .... 10.00
SOUTHWESTERN QUICHE WITH CORNED BEEF HASH ........... 10.00
FRENCH TOAST, SYRUP, HAM STEAK ...................... 10.00
RICE KRISPIES, RAISIN BRAN CRUNCH OR CORN FLAKES;
CUT FRUIT, CROISSANT, YOGURT (STRWBRY OR BLUBRY) .. 6.75

BREAKFAST - TRAINS 22, 58, 422 SAS-CHI

SOUTHWESTERN OMELET, SAUSAGE, BREAKFAST POTATOES .... 10.00
THREE CHEESE QUICHE WITH CORNED BEEF HASH ........... 10.00
FRENCH TOAST, SYRUP, HAM STEAK ...................... 10.00
RICE KRISPIES, RAISIN BRAN CRUNCH OR CORN FLAKES;
CUT FRUIT, CROISSANT, YOGURT (STRWBRY OR BLUBRY) .. 6.75

INCLUDED: COFFEE, TEA OR MILK, AND JUICE (ORANGE,
APPLE OR CRANBERRY).


LUNCH - TRAINS 21, 59, 421 CHI-SAS

ANGUS CHEESEBURGER, CHIPS, PICKLE SPEAR ............. 7.00
SANDWICH (SERVER WILL DESCRIBE), CHIPS, PICKLE ...... 7.25
BARBECUE CHICKEN, POTATO WEDGES, CORN, SALAD ........ 12.00
ADD HOT SOUP (MINESTRONE OR CHICKEN NOODLE) ......... 4.00

LUNCH - TRAINS 22, 58, 422 SAS-CHI

ANGUS CHEESEBURGER, CHIPS, PICKLE SPEAR ............. 7.00
SANDWICH (SERVER WILL DESCRIBE), CHIPS, PICKLE ...... 7.25
POT ROAST, REDSKIN POTATOES, CORN, SALAD ............ 12.00
ADD HOT SOUP (MINESTRONE OR CHICKEN NOODLE) ......... 4.00

INCLUDED: COFFEE, TEA OR MILK.

BEVERAGES AND DESSERTS - SEE BELOW

DINNER - TRAINS 21, 59, 421 CHI-SAS

BRAISED BEEF, MASHED REDSKIN POTATOES, CARROTS ...... 18.00
CHICKEN PARMESAN, ROAST POTATOES, GREEN BEANS ....... 17.50
BASIL/THYME COD FILLETS, RICE PILAF, BEAN MEDLEY .... 16.50
CHEESE TORTELLINI, ALFREDO SAUCE, BROCCOLI .......... 11.00
EVENING SPECIAL - SERVER WILL DESCRIBE .............. 12.50

DINNER - TRAINS 22, 58, 422 SAS-CHI

BEEF TENDERLOINS, ROASTED POTATOES, BROCCOLI ........ 18.00
LAMB SHANK, RICE PILAF, BEAN MEDLEY ................. 17.50
SALMON FILLET, MASHED REDSKIN POTATOES, GREEN BEANS . 16.50
GNOCCHI - PASTA ROUNDS, MARINARA SAUCE, CARROTS...... 11.00
EVENING SPECIAL - SERVER WILL DESCRIBE .............. 12.50

INCLUDED: COFFEE, TEA OR MILK; GREEN SALAD; ROLL, BUTTER.
BEVERAGES AND DESSERTS - SEE BELOW


LUNCH AND DINNER BEVERAGES
SOFT DRINKS ......................................... 1.75
BOTTLED WATER ....................................... 2.00
BEER: BUDWEISER, BUD LITE, MILLER GENUINE DRAFT .... 4.25
BEER: HEINEKEN, CORONA, SAMUEL ADAMS ............... 5.25
RED WINE: MERLOT OR CABERNET SAUVIGNON, 375 ML ..... 12.00
WHITE WINE: CHARDONNAY OR PINOT GRIGIO, 375 ML ..... 12.00

LUNCH AND DINNER DESSERTS

MISSISSIPPI MUD CAKE (21, 59, 421) .................. 5.00
CHOCOLATE BUNDT CAKE (22, 58, 422) .................. 5.00
NEW YORK STYLE CHEESECAKE (ALL) ..................... 3.75
FRUIT (CANTALOUPE, ORANGE, HONEYDEW,
PINEAPPLE, SEEDLESS RED GRAPES) (ALL) ............. 3.50

[jeaton]

Don-You are correct that the meal "cost" for first class passengers is tracked. A meal order ticket is prepared for every meal taken by passengers from the sleepers and then the price of the meal is entered as a charge against the revenue from sleeper car charges. The amount is reported on the monthly financials published by Amtrak.

Interesting thing. Even though the sleeper car charges are set at a level to cover charges for all meals for the duration of the trip, the meal charges against those revenues are only for the actual meals taken. I would not say it is significant, but the TOTAL revenue may be higher than it would be if sleeper charges and meals were charged separately.

No doubt the changes you noted are an effort to reduce the operating costs for meal service and it might work. I could envision a reduction of the dining car crew from 5 to three. One person handling the galley and two delivering the food. Reduced prep time and cleanup for the galley would free up time for cleanup and prep in the dining area. As an aside, on my last trip, I thought I saw some kitchen equipment in the lower level of a coach in the area that was formerly the smoking compartment. Here is the prospect. With eight tables installed in the upper level of the sightseer lounge as has been done for the Empire Builder and food prep located in a coach, or for that matter in the lower level of the loung car, it might be possible to completely remove the dinning car from the consist of those trains, such as the City of New Orleans, that have had lower dinning car patronage. No doubt that would be a rather significant reduction in costs.

Jay

[oltmannd]

It would be a start!

Now, we have to figure out how to get rid of those crew dorms (old 10-6s) cars from the trains. Or, remove the toilets and make them economy revenue sleepers again (maybe a bed w/o meals ala the old slumber coaches?). Too bad so many "escaped" to Canada.

[domefoamer]

Any potential savings from this idea should be balanced with the dissatisfaction caused by missed connections, stale meals, mistaken orders and other snafus. I imagine proponents of this are Easterners, where towns and food sources are frequent. If the best local restaurants were used, food quality might even improve, but I'd expect the low bidder would be the national chains, not local favorites.

I'm puzzled by the comment that "100 miles is two hours by train or highway." Actually, during winter in the West, 100 miles can be four hours' drive, arrival optional. Are you usually satisfied by meals cooked 3-4 hours previously? Breads and salads, among others, don't benefit from precooked storage.

I don;t understand why food bought wholesale and cooked on the train is cheaper than meals bought individually and transported to distant rendezvous points. And I wonder how the time spent in those rendezvous, loading and unloading hundreds of meals, would affect schedules, especially after you've cut the diner staff to create wage savings.

This scheme is already used when diner failure and other troubles demand it. I'd love to hear from Amtrak employees who have carried this out, to take this discussion beyond the theoretical level.

I fear it's only a step towards a future where we're eating fast-food box lunches at our coach seats. Or you will, I won't be riding much then.

I hope the originator of this believes, as I do, that some kind of dinner in the diner is indispensable element of the rail experience. Amtrak's food quality is not the only draw: the communial seating, meeting riders from around the world, is as key to my enjoyment of trains as the scenery out the window. Of course, covering up the windows would save maintenance money, too, but Amtrak is selling more than basic transporation.

[oltmannd]

When you start talking about dinner in the diner as part of an essential part of the rail experience - I agree. I love it.

But, when that dinner is government subsidized - count me out. You can probably convince a majority of Americans that Amtrak is worth the subsidy as transportation, but when it starts looking like you're subsidizing vacations for the upper middle class, you're gonna have trouble. I'd like to see the LD train stay around and I don't think the status quo is gonna get it done.

The reason you'd be able to bring locally cooked meals to the train cheaper is you only have to pay for the incremental hours to cook those meals, plus some transport. The diner staff gets big buck wages in comparison and is on the clock for the whole trip, not just meal time.

A really good chunk of the western LD route are roughly parallel to interstates for big chunks of their trips. Sunset (I-10), SW Chief (I-70, 25 and 40), Zephyr (I-80, 70, then 80 again) Emp Bldr (I-94)