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Gunn Speaks Out

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  • Member since
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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:05 PM
....Simply look on page 2 for Mr. Rowland's post.

Quentin

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:13 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

Hey lotus 100 billion to the airlines in the last 4 yrs mean anything to you plus all of the bankrupt ones dumping the peinsions on the goverment to pay. that adds another 22 billion just from United alone with Delta and northwest maybe another 10 billion. Amtrack in 35 years has recived 35-40 billion 1/3 of what the airlines have gotten since 9/11. And what I am talking about is the cash just given to them to keep them afloat. This does not include the subsisedized cost of the ATC program. What we spend on Amtrak a year is about what is takes to fund the building of a Nimitz class carrier per year. Maybe Bush is trying to finish his dads carrier before he dies. The next carrier to be commisioned is th George HW Bush in 2 years.. Lotus just remember this I am a Republican and I can not stand W Bush either.
Ah-ha, it's the old "but the airlines do it" ploy. I was thinking about this with the NEC, wouldn't having Amtrak own the track but other trains running on it be similar to the way all airlines run on government maintained airports? Railroads even in heavy traffic zones don't have too much problem with other railroads running on trackage rights, so why is the NEC so much different? Even PRB coal trains have to keep schedules.

Also I think that carrier is a bit more important than trains that most people can't afford to, and don't ride on. With the exception of commuters Amtrak is not very useful, it doesn’t haul express good or mail, we need to do something; and Gunn didn’t want to do anything, in fact in the interview he states that if we just keep throwing money at the problem; which as history has proven never works.



No, maintaining an airport with several carriers is not the same thing as having separate NEC ownership. A better analogy would be if the tower at the airport and the runway maintenance crew belonged to different companies.

You are wrong about RRs operating with trackage rights on heavy traffic lanes. This is a HUGE deal to the RRs and not easily handled.

PRB coal trains do not adhere to schedules with any precision coming anything close to what's required on the NEC, particularly between Trenton and NYP.

Which are these Amtrak trains that "most people can't afford and don't ride"? I'm not aware of any that fit this description.

You can make a case that we don't get much for what we spend on Amtrak, but lets stick to some facts.

Also, does it bother you at all that the critizisms that Mineta has of Amtrak from the GAO report by and large rest with the Amtrak board, of which he is a memeber (and he never has attended a board meeting) and of which Mr. Gunn is NOT a member?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098
Ah-ha, it's the old "but the airlines do it" ploy. I was thinking about this with the NEC, wouldn't having Amtrak own the track but other trains running on it be similar to the way all airlines run on government maintained airports? Railroads even in heavy traffic zones don't have too much problem with other railroads running on trackage rights, so why is the NEC so much different? Even PRB coal trains have to keep schedules.



Unfortunately James, the analogy falls apart right after the planes get off the ground and up to cruising altitude. They can fly at many different altitudes and on routes that keep them separated by more than a safe margin laterally. Even with this advantage, the air lanes in the eastern US are reaching capacity.

This is the big difference, there's only an average of four tracks wide of routes in the NEC and over 60 trains each direction every weekday (I counted them in the timetable), and they all travel at the same altitude. And this only counts the trains run by Amtrak, not the local commuter agencies using the Amtrak owned tracks.

The BIG difference is sheer volume of trains in a relatively small area. The right of way occupies an area about as wide as a 6 lane highway (small by northeast standards) and moves MANY times the passengers as the 6 lane highway would be able to handle. Also, since this part of the country has been settled for a couple hundred years, the real estate to expand the roads or the railroads just isn't available.

The number of trains on the Powder River Basin tracks doesn't even come close.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:31 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098
Also I think that carrier is a bit more important than trains that most people can't afford to, and don't ride on. With the exception of commuters Amtrak is not very useful, it doesn’t haul express good or mail, we need to do something; and Gunn didn’t want to do anything, in fact in the interview he states that if we just keep throwing money at the problem; which as history has proven never works.



It sounds like you're quoting one of Minetta's statements that has already been proven wrong about the Amtrak statistics. The "trains that most people can't afford" part falls apart if you've ever tried to check availability of accomodations on a train, for example the Sunset Limited. Even though it doesn't run all the way to Orlando since the Gulf Coast took all that damage from Katrina, there's no Bedrooms available through July of next year (that's where I gave up checking).

The other part about "and don't ride on" sounds like another of his infamous misspeaks where he stated that trains were running empty. The ridership figures show this to be outright WRONG.

As far as "Gunn didn't want to do anything" he didn't want to destroy Amtrak by making it another plum to hand out to Bush cronies that were probably as well versed in running a railroad as a former horse judge was at running an Emergency Management Agency. His big mistake was building Amtrak into a viable,efficient running operation which would make it harder to justify breaking it up and parceling it out this way.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 25, 2005 12:25 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by co614

IMHO David Gunn was the first capable CEO since W.G.Claytor,Jr. What he and his team were able to accomplish in the last 3 years DESPITE an Administration dedicated to destroying Amtrak,was truly remarkable. Therein lies his doom.
Had he been another bungler like Warrington he'd still be there. His successes were ruining the Administrations game plan to implode the Company, and they feared that further progress would surely end any chance of getting rid of it.
Firing Gunn however may yet prove a very stupid strategic move as it has substantially energized many in Congress who heretofore were not all that caring on this topic and has led several key members of Congress to put the Administration on notice that it expects 4 new nominees for the Amtrak BOD shortly after the Holidays and that they will be people with credentials in the field, and the recently approved enabling legislation is being "codified" with language insuring the continuance AND future expansion of the LDT's.
From the 5 years I served on the BOD(1982-87) I can tell you first hand that at the end of the day the game is decided in the halls of Congress, not in the White House nor the DOT.
The next few months should be very interesting to say the least!!
Ross Rowland



For those wanting to know a little more about Ross Rowland try this website:

http://www.co614.com/history.htm

I first found out he was a member here about a year ago. Heck, that is longer than some people have been on this forum. [;)] But maybe this will add a little weight to his previous post. Of course some people will never accept his knowledge and experience or that it means anything.
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Posted by edbenton on Friday, November 25, 2005 7:49 AM
Louts you are the typical NEOCONSERVETIVE regardless how much conflicting data you get. You only beleive what you want to beleive. I know Amtrak is a money pit but it is no worse that the 3 billion it is going to cost to expand ohare or the money pit that is Iraq. Even the Iraqis want us out now and that is from their goverment. So 2 words B*** ME!
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 25, 2005 9:59 AM
Minetta's qualifications for his position....He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. :(

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by edbenton on Friday, November 25, 2005 10:04 AM
W Bush qualificaions None. He has no clue what is going on. even his staff say we can not bring the bad news if we do we are out of a job. So much for compassinate conservitism unless you are haliburtian. then uit is here is the key to the Treasury take whatever you want out of it no one will care.
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 25, 2005 10:25 AM
I can see logical won't convince this forest. I will shut my yap. Also I would highly suggest everyone reread won't Ross Rowland said. What I don't like is Iraq and Amtrak are entirely seperate matters. One is a transportation system no-one in this state can even use. The other is a WAR in which we are kicking some terrorist rear-end.
I am finished here, carry on with the dogma.
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Posted by edbenton on Friday, November 25, 2005 10:28 AM
Yes I finally got him to be quiet
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 25, 2005 10:42 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

I can see logical won't convince this forest. I will shut my yap. Also I would highly suggest everyone reread won't Ross Rowland said. What I don't like is Iraq and Amtrak are entirely seperate matters. One is a transportation system no-one in this state can even use. The other is a WAR in which we are kicking some terrorist rear-end.
I am finished here, carry on with the dogma.


So much for dented karma

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by jeaton on Friday, November 25, 2005 8:15 PM
Like Idaho really has to worry about terrorists from foreign nations.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 25, 2005 10:44 PM
Is it safe to come out now...FOFLMAO...

LC

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