THE RISE AND FALL OF AMERICA

[Anonymous]

Let us assume that railroads are the glue of our economy; that railroads, with enlightened leadership and employees, can indeed hold this nation together. Not only CAN they do all this, but they WANT to do it. No bureaucrat worth his government pay grade will let it happen. The bureaucrat is the sticky glue that holds (and holds up!) everything together. The bureaucrat is the most important particle in the economy; he can circumvent the Congress, the President and all the enlightened railroad management simply by failing to act! And like Italy, the US has more red tape every year to gum up the best laid plans. And since the legislator is reluctant to legislate, he leaves all that up to-you guessed it- the bureaucrat! Read good books and abstain from profanity.

[Anonymous]

No dude,..you are not a Racist,...you are a realist

Nothing wrong with being a realist.

It's just the liberal mindset that will call you a racist for looking out for #1, but it's just a tool used to get you to abandon your priorities, and adopt theirs.

the quicker we all wake the heck up and realize this, and get back to an agenda that matters, the quicker we can enjoy the good times again..

[Anonymous]

>> The Roman Empire was not a liberal one.
Perhaps I was not very clear on that one.

The Roman Empire that Prospered was a Conservative one.

The prosperity made the fostering of Liberal thought a possibility.

When the liberal mindset took hold,...that's when the decline began..

And in an ultimate display of liberal type thinking,...look no further than the council of Nicea...the 'death rattle" was near.

[edblysard]

Sorry to dissapoint you Skeets, high school grad. But had parents who pused their kids to take a chance. If we wanted to know something, we were encouraged to go and do, see or live it.
Dad was a Chief Petty Officer, U.S.N, mom was a english immigrant. I am the grandson of a german jew, who came here at the begining of WWI. He spent the war in a pow camp outside of Alvin, Texas, became a US citizen, and never looked back.
Most of the railroaders I know started back in their teens, and never worked anywhere else, so most really dont know what goes on in the "real" world, all they have every known is railroading. Which dosnt leave a lot of time to see or experience other things. Most dont have college hours, they view it as a waste of their time, but almost everyone of them I know has made their kids go, so they "dont have to do this for a living".
I did get to live overseas a lot with my dad, he was with the naval attache unit for a long time. So I got to see Japan, Great Britian, Canada for a month, San Fransisco, San Deigo, even went to the U.S.S.R, that was a really eye opening trip. Any body here who thinks they have it so hard should go and see. Primitive is the best word I can think applies to they standard of living.
Japan was kinda funny, try being the only blonde, white guy over 60" tall, in a highschool room full of black haired, small japanese kids. Talk about standing out. And I got a first hand taste of racisim there. It seems that the japanese either love everything american, or they hate us completly, no real in between. And the most angrering thing is when they stand there, speaking japanese on purpose, knowing full well you cant keep up, even though they know english as well as you do. Its kinda a snub in their society. So not so much a philospher as a real lucky guy. Been a lot of places, met a lot of diffrent peoples. And I still came home to Texas. Never been more happy or grateful as when I plop my fanny in a saddle, and ride through the hill country. No other nation would allow you to take your rifle, saddle bags and bed roll, and ride out into the country to stay as long as you wanted. I had a lot of choices of places to live, and I'll take America, with all her "faults", any day of the week. Dont know if college could have taught me that.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

The more services you demand of government (and the less you demand of yourself), the more bureaucrats you will spawn. Support tax cuts, reduced services, individual responsibility, and more community and family interdependence, and you will, over the years, reduce the bureaucracy at all levels. (We must also demand more of the bureaucrats we find ourselves stuck with.)

By the way, anyone know which lines operated M1 Mountain steam engines?

[Mookie]

I salute you sir, for doing what you like. You have had a varied and full life and seem to be enjoying it to its fullest.

Maybe your daughter can work on the railroad after Vet school - until she can find a job? Ah the best of both worlds....

[Mookie]

Skeets - sad isn't it about our education situation today. I look over papers college graduates write and I shake my head.

I also knew a railroader/philosopher - one of the
most level-headed people I have ever known and he had only a high school education that took 21 years to obtain. But he had good common sense, and followed the work rules, something that seems to be lacking today - in railroading and the real world, too.

[edblysard]

Ok Jenny, its your turn.
Not to sound sexist, but it is somewhat a oddity to find a female railfan, although I know y'all are out there. You are obviously literate and articulate, so a guess would have you being a professional of some type, with a Masters?
From a railroad family, or close relative workes or worked for a railroad. You take photos, so I also bet your like to draw or paint, maby design things, some type of creative outlet.
As for Elizabeth, my 9 year old, she still has time to make up her mind, but whatever she decides, she's going to be good at it. She one of those lucky people who learns without trying, she just soaks up knowledge. Kinda scary when your kid is smarter than you, and dosn't realize it.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Mookie]

I have to smile at your thumbnail sketch of me - you are part right - and after I divulge my personal info, no one will probably ever answer my musings again.

I am female - late 50's - love to watch trains, but not creative enough to draw, paint or photograph. (I gave that to my daughter - a great artist - I can barely write legibly). Only have one year of college, but a lifetime of loving to read and studying people. Grandfather and dad were fireman/engineers for about 80 years combined. I know just enough from being a railroad brat to be dangerous - I would have gladly worked my heart out for the railroad, but they didn't "do" women. And I wanted to be on the engine - not in the shops or a caller...I, too thought about being a "vet", but couldn't get through Chemistry class with the grades necessary to get there. Plus the years of college were a little intimidating. I work for a university now -(University of Nebraska in Lincoln)& that will be as close as I come to my degree. So my train time is just watching and studying them as they go by and reading over people's shoulders on the forum. Granted, a cheap date, but I never tire of seeing those big engines coming toward me!

And we are Frosty - it is snowing like mad!

Jen

[edblysard]

Dont sell yourself short, your skill with words betrays your real intelligence. If you work at the university, you should take advantage of that. Dont they offer classes for employees? You read like you could teach, so why not try? How about working with the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, your knowledge shouldnt be kept to yourself. And who says you have to get a degree?, After all, the knowledge is what your after, right? My father in law is 65, still takes classes at the comunity college in Alvin, just because he wants the knowledge. He got his teaching certificate 10 years ago. Never used it, but the pride in the achievement was worth it. My wife is 37, works full time , at the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, in the Child support division,( how she handles it after nine years is beyond me, I could only hack it for six) she deals with out of state cases, and she goes to school on line, the University of Phoenix on line. Depending on how it works out for her, I may give it a try myself.
One of the most important things my parents ever drilled into my hard head was that once you have knowledge, no one can ever take it away from you, it yours forever, to use as you see fit.
You dont sound like you intimidate easily, and I would bet you inheireted some of you dads and grandfathers stubborn attitude, to never quit, hang in there and stick it out. If your willing to put this much info about yourself out here, then you must be pretty happy with who you are, and fairly confident in what you do. Did you think of writing a short story or article for a magazine? Nebraska has some pretty interesting train history. The worst they could do is say no, and that would put you right back where you are now. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
And just to rub it in a little, here its 70 degrees, clear blue skies, and I think I will throw a few shrimp on the barbie for dinner.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, We have some of those "tunnel vision" railroaders also. But the old heads of the WW2 generation saw alot more of the world than they wanted to. Several old engineers were at Normandy; one fellow was trapped behind German lines in the Bulge with his tank crew, and one fellow was left to share a small Pacific island with the Japanese for two years before they fled from the Marines. That guy was creepy; you could be having a conversation with some guys and all the sudden, you realized he was standing there. The point is, some of the old heads were of a philosophical bent. Maybe the young bucks of today are less prone to think.

[Anonymous]

Jenny, Some years ago, a listener sent a copy of a test given to 8th grade students for graduation to a radio program. The test was from the 1890's in Iowa. It's a crime what the Education Industry has done to the nation's youth. Each generation is less educated than the one preceeding. I think it is quite intentional.

[edblysard]

I bet the did see more than most, that was my dad generation also. But the guys I was referring to started around the 50s or 60s, as kids. I didnt mean to imply they were or are un educated, most are pretty smart, and you have to have a lot of common sense to do this for a living, no matter how easy it looks. But most of them came railroading right out of highschool, and why not? The money was good for the times, you didnt need a college education, and after a while, they didnt want to do anything else anyway. But like I said, almost everyone here who has kids have sent them to clooege, they dont want their kids doing this as a livelyhood. But after working with the same group of guys year after year, and sitting in a locomotive for hours on end, you kinda get in each others pocket, so to speak, and you start to let your hair down. After all, you end up spending more time with these people than anyone else, so who else are you going to talk to?
Stay Frosty, Ed

[edblysard]

Ok, either this silly machine has to learn to write what I meant, or maby I need to get some schooling myself. Then again, maby sleep would help...

[Mookie]

I heard that "test" on the radio, also. It was not all that easy either! But I am intrigued by your last statement. Care to elaborate? I do agree with what the Education Industry has done to our education system, but would be interested in hearing about the intentional part...

[edblysard]

Kinda wondering myself. I dont know if its intentional or not, but I suppose that when school district's budgets got to the hundred of millions of dollars mark, it became more of a business than a school, or a educational system.
I know here the HISD no longer offers a education, it offers to prep kids for the SATs. Teachers can't teach the course, just to impart the knowledge, they have to teach to the test, and are required by the school board to have a certain percent of their students pass a pre- test. They no longer teach all of the applied math course, they teach only the parts of the course thats appear on the SATs. Its become a numbers game. School boards no longer take pride is showing how many kids the graduated that went on to college, they now point to how many kids they "cliff noted" into passing the test. And of course, the federal funds they receive are, in part, based on what percent of their students pass the SATs, or whatever test your school district uses, so giving students a well rounded education is not a priority, getting them to cram for the test is. Thats why courses like wood shop, metal shop, auto mechanics, almost all of your art courses and music courses are gone. They no longer care about teaching your kids how to survive in the real world by giving them the skills they needs, or teaching them a trade they can use, they focus on keeping their numbers up, so they can apply for more Federal funds. We just passed a 450 million bond issue here..450 million? I remember 30 plus years ago, when I was in school, the big debate was weather 10 million was an excessive budget for the entire HISD. And they want another 450 million in two years...When you get to that kinda money, teaching is no longer a priority, numbers are.
My 16 year old daughter can do algebra problems, but she never memorized her multiplication tables, and can't do simple division or addition and subtraction on a sheet of paper, she has to have the calculator they use in class to add up more than five numbers. And it's a shame, because they never taught her that skill, from 5th grade on, she has been taught to the test, not taught to the course. Basic skills, like how to add two numbers, or how the cut a piece of wood in half, or weld, or even who Beethoven was and why his music matters, are gone from public schools, they even did away with the home economics course. Think about it, running a home, keeping your personal budget balanced, paying your bills, all of that is just as hard as running a small business, yet your school no longer teaches that to the students, so you have a whole generation of kids who can explain E=Mc2, but can't add up their grocery bill or pay their light bill with out screwing it up, and have no idea why 10% interest on a car loan is worse that 7.1%. We got so disgusted we enrolled our 9 year old(who likes school, thank god) in a magnet school, heavy on math and science skills, and it dosnt depend on federal funds to operate, it offered by the school district for kids who show an appitude and inclination towards the applied sicences. She has better math skills than I do.. but I dont think the decline in "education" is intentional, I thinks its just the end result of school districts changeing their priorities from teaching kids to getting bigger budgets.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Mookie]

When I was managing a restaurant - I had to "teach" every one of my employees how to make change! They couldn't count back change (2nd grade)- they depended on the register to tell them how much. (what if there was a power failure or they entered the wrong amounts?) And I won't even go into their spelling/grammer skills - (we hired mostly college-age men and women.)

[edblysard]

You know, I noticed that they no longer teach employees to count back change. But that was the first thing I was taught at my first job, and its so easy. And yeah, I remember 2nd or 3rd grade playing with monopoly money and a toy cash register. My kids would have no idea what we were talking about.
Sad, huh.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Jen, I think it's probably several different groups pulling for different reasons but having the same result. The teacher's unions are for the "children", but actually are for job security and featherbedding their own nests. Look at the reading fiasco; phonetics has been teaching chidren to read for millenia, but our wise Educrats , who know better than we, declared "see and know" the way to go. You and I use S&E; I don't have to sound out many words, because I know them. That wasn't the case when I was in the first grade. The result is several generations of students who can't read the newspaper. The Ed. guys at the heights want more money for their empires. Er, scratch that. For their "children". Politicians use ed money for buying votes; for showing their sheep that they "care". It's funny. The black politicians scream about that symbol of evil, the Confederate battle flag, but have no problem with the millions of black (and white) chidren who can't fill a job application out after 12 years in the gov't schools. Then there are some who think, and I agree, that the dumbing down of the US population has a much more sinister cause. It's very simple...undereducated people are easier to lead. The US system really kicks in when a kid scores high on the SAT's. They are invited to the ivy leagues. If a young person can demonstrate high intellect, he's invited to enter the upper levels of our society, where he is groomed to help rule us. I'd better stop now; I'm getting out of hand!

[Anonymous]

This is one seriously off topic thread, there are hundreds of political discussion boards on the web, why use up space on this server discussing this here. I mean, political discussions are relevant when discussing topics such as AMTRAK funding and the like, but this is a RAILROAD relate forum..........................

[Anonymous]

I agree, Jon. They should all be ashamed of themselves!

[edblysard]

Yeah, how dare we have an open discussion about politics, mom, apple pie and all that, especialy here in america.

[edblysard]

Yeah, how dare we have an open discussion about politics, mom, apple pie and all that, especialy here in america.

[Anonymous]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech??

[edblysard]

Sushhhh, the forum police are listening....

[Anonymous]

Yeah! Maybe we should get back to the original point of this thread. Can railroads save America?

[Anonymous]

I believe railroads have the power and will to bring the country together. Railroads will pull America together. Railroads are the most patriotic transport organizations in the U.S. You saw UP put American flags on their locomotives but you didn't see that as a special on any automobiles. That is because RAILROADS, not autos, built America's economy. Take away railroad, destroy America. The automobile is causing extended pollution levels in America while railroads put out the least pollution overall. Eventually, the bad areas of transport will outweigh the good and railroads will once again reign. The government right now is very dumd in their decision to begin the demise of railroads by what they almost did to Amtrak. Eventually they will realise that railroads are part of America. As long as there are people like us out there, then railroads will exist. You don't see as many auto preservations because they aren't as much a part of America as railroads. It's in the blood. People will eventually forget about cars and those like us will continue the preservation of the railroads.
LONG LIVE THE IRON ROAD!

[Anonymous]

The problem with common sense is that it's not common.
G.Setter

[Mookie]

the more I live, the more I am seeing that! What a great loss to all of us!!!

[Anonymous]

Seeing how so many college profs and "Educators" are anti-american anymore, they probably would have talked you out of your good feelings. But you'd probable hate being a miserable sourpuss about life as most of them are. You're better off without 'em - Just about anyone can educate themselves, as you seem to have done. We are more honest that way.

OH! my wife came up with a great definition, which completely shut down a stuffy elitist professor - a definition of an "Intellectual".
"An intellectual is someone who has been educated beyond their intelligence!"

Be cool

RmC