Steamers

[Anonymous]

How are the fire boxes in steamers cleaned of the coal cinders/ash, how often and what becomes of it? Also, where is the engineer squirting the oil when he gets off at stops and walks towards the front with his 38 1/2' long oil can?

[edblysard]

Not a complete answer, but here goes.
The ash in the bottom of the fire box falls into a ashpan, similar to the ash pan found in you old fireplace. the coal would rest on grates inside the firebox, to allow air to pass under it when burning, or only the top of the coal would burn, sorta like venting your barbque pit. when the coal burned away, the fireman would dump the grates, which tilt up, into the ash pan. If the locomotive wasnt being turned, or put right back into service on another train, the service crew would dump the ash, via a door with a hopper style bottom on the ash pan, into the ash pit on the way to the round house or service area. The fire box would be washed out, and a service guy would take a quick peek inside to make sure it was all ok. The ash pit was cleaned out the old fashion way, with shovels. When the engineer has a chance, he will oil around, as some of the parts didnt have a automatic oiling system. Most likley the driving wheel bearings would get a look, even though they have a oiling system, plus the connecting rods, the reverser, any moving part he felt needed a little extra oil, but towards the front, you can bet he was oiling the valve rods, as they get bathed in steam constantly, and move rapidly back and forth inside a bronze sleeve bearing. The can has such a long spout to reach inside and behind things, most parts on a steam locomotive are really big and bulky.
And you can bet somewhere there is a steam junkie who can add to this. I got this info from a guy named Steve Lee, the head of UPs steam program, when they ran the 3985, a 4-6-6-4 Challenger steam locomotive here in Texas on an excersion. I asked him about the same question. A really friendly and gracious guy, his whole team is top notch pros. By the way, what those guys do with just "hot water" is almost beyond belife. That locomotive hit 65mph real quick and real smooth, the thing never missed a beat, and it seemed like it was designed to go a lot faster, it sure felt like it wanted to. Its easy to see why some people get hooked on steam locomotives. That may be one of the bset runs in my life.
Hope this helps,
Ed

[dknelson]

Ed, the 3985 looked gorgeous when it came up through Milwaukee this last summer. It is in immaculate condition, actually is very quiet and smooth running. It was a good summer for upper midwest steam buffs: we saw the 3985 on two consecutive days, then the Milwaukee Road 261 came through northern Illinois on its way to Chicago and then Galesburg IL, and then the Great Circus Train, probably the most strikingly colorful excursion train ever run anywhere, was pulled by 1003, an old Soo Line 2-8-2 that was likewise in perfect running order. The 1003 is coal fired and provides a good opportunity to see the ash pan in operation, as well as watching the engineer "oil around." I caught the engine going up a short but intense grade in Rubicon Wisconsin (watched a pretty entertaining small town American Legion league sandlot baseball game and bought sodas from a small town grocery store's outdoor soft drink machine while waiting for it) and I and the other photographers were showered by cinders as the engine worked hard, barking loudly, right past us. Right after the cinders, a modest shower of water because the engineer had been leaning on the whistle for the grade crossing. What with the incredible load of turn of the century circus wagons on authentic circus flat cars, plus brightly colored standard passenger cars, it might was well have been 1922 as 2002.
Dave Nelson

[Soo2610]

Ed, You were actually on the 3985? You lucky sob! Caught it when it came through Rochelle this past summer. Thing is so quiet that if it wasn't for the scanners it would actually have snuck up on us and been around the bend before we knew it was coming.
To quote somebody, "Stay Frosty"!
Best regards,
Len

[edblysard]

I didnt get in the cab, but my wife did, she had the whole crew sign the "newspaper" program they give out. This trip was hosted by the local chapter of the NHRS, and they did it up right. Got to talk to the steam crew before the run, we rode to Bat City, turned the whole train on the wye, and came back to Houston. Astounding what plain steam can do, makes you understand how the industrial revolution could so quickly change the face of the world. And later that same year, we took a two day trip from Houston the Corpus Christy behind the E units, the 951 and the 949. Funny, that was before I went railroading, and surprise, both the E units showed up in our yard last year, working their way home from another trip pulling freight. If you didnt know, the prime mover and the controls are from a SD 40, so getting parts is easy. i got to get in the cab of the 951, kinda fun.
Stay Frosty len,
Ed

[sooblue]

Hi Ed,
You got it pretty right on. The only thing that I could add is that the fire burns from the bottom up and I hope the guy that washed out the fire box did it after it cooled down for a couple of days or there could have been some major damage done to the flues.

You mentioned the Challenger; it came through to St Paul too. It wasn't so quiet here. Texas is so flat that it must have drifted most of the way!*smile*
I was so impressed that I contacted the UP and praised them for sending it up our way.
The crew rep. contacted me back and thanked me and told me that it was REFRESHING to hear a compliment. They got a lot of complaints about that %%&* teapot!
I could hardly believe it. I have to make it out to Cheyenne to see it go up Sherman Hill.

Sooblue

[edblysard]

On the trip, they dropped us all off at a clearing, backed up two or three miles, gave a whistle blast to give the photographers a heads up, and poured it on, when she came by, at 65mph, I doubt anything could have cut through the sound. It was throbbing so much my video camera vibrated, and it was on a tripod. The steam crew travel with her, the whole bunch are a little off center, and thats makes them just great. Not a one seemed to be put out by all the questions, even though they had several hours of work still left to do. You could see the pride in their eyes, in their smiles when people went "WOW', you could tell these guys, tired and grubby, were just where they wanted to be, doing exactly what they wanted to be doing. Talk about lucky, getting to run and work on something that fine, that great, and getting paid too! That must have been someone elses post that mentioned her being quite, down here she made wonderful noise. Texas aint all that flat, if you ever get here, drive through the Austin, Kerrville area, and around Bandera, the Hill Country. Kinda got it all, marshes on the louisiana side, the grass land plains in the middle, the hill country to the west, Edwards plateau, and desert from there till new mexico. Of course, in midland, they say the only thing holding back the north wind is a barbed wire fence. Tell you what, if where you live there is a group trying to restore or preserve a steam locomotive, help em out, things like that just cant be allowed to die. I have been around some pretty big machines, from Navy ships to the USAF Super Guppy, you cant compare those to this maching. Nothing but hot water, and the skill of the engineer, and they can make that girl step right on out and fly. Their right when they say a steam locomotive "talks" to you, you could hear her wanting to go even faster.
If I could chunck it all and go do that for the rest of my life, I gladly would.
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Most of yr question has been expertly answered already. The big engine terminals had ash pits, often under more than one track. If the volume warranted, the ash pits might have had conveyors to lift the askes from the pit(s) and dump them into a gon or hopper car, parked on an adjacent track expressly for that purpose.

In smaller terminal or on branch lines, the dumped ashes would be removed by men with shovels as previously posted. Hot ashes could be damaging to ties & capable of starting fires, so dumping would be confined to certain areas except in case of emergency where the fire had to be dumped to prevent a boiler explosion.

The ashes would eventually be hauled to a dump site or someplace where such material would have been suitable as fill.

Ash removal & disposal with its attendant labor costs were another reason why railroads with coal-burning steamers were able to save money with diesels

[cprted]

When I was having some of my first steam experiences I asked if their was a list of everything that needed to be oiled, the answer I got was "Everything that moves." Every point where metel rubs on metal has to be lubed, period, and not just once a day, at every chance or your trip could be cut short one day. The crew of "Bullet Nosed Betty" (CN 6060) learned that the hard way in 1986, they wanted to see how they could go without oiling her, oops!