$60 a barrel for oil?

[Anonymous]

vsmith I love your post.

Especially the part about Inoculating children with DVD video players in teh back seat.

That took me back to my child hood. Road trips to Strasburg RR near Lancaster PA from Baltimore were all day affairs.

Us three kids packed in a small import without airconditioning made do rather well. When the sun got too hot we would deploy a horse blanket. Drank lots of water and as long as dad kept moving we had really good air flow. Drank lemons at midday and lots of sprite. (No pepsi or Coke as caffine worsens the situation)

People will deploy whatever vehicles they want to. The inattention to the driving is kind of not worth arguing about here in this thread. However I will understand that when used properly Onramps and off ramps do not give problems to traffic. I have spent years making allowances for other people's mistakes.

Not anymore. Any lane is a travel lane, they will either need to speed up or slow down to merge.

I hear you loud and clear on the SUV sales with GM. I suspect that Hybrid technology will make it possible for us to have vehicles that are roomy and rather safe.. but still get 30-40 miles to the gallon.

When Toyota released the first Hybrid that looked like it did not have any back wheels.. I seriously considered replacing my cars with that one model as you can take it downtown everyday and park it anywhere you want to. More importantly you got like 600 miles on what was 15.00 worth of gas and still had the air conditioning and radio.

I have seen prototype designs for a in-line ceramic engine that is really nothing more than a 1500 pound turbine that burns fuel and drives a generator powering electro motive engines under the tandems of a 18 wheeler semi. This design was forecast to generate almost 30 miles to the gallon in Class 8 Vehicles grossing 80,000 pounds at 50 mph.

I was very excited, but back then it was 1996 and the attitude was that they will NEVER see that design on the american highway because of the greed and lust of Uncle Sam for desiel fuel taxes that we happily pay as long as we never break the 10 mpg barrier.

I have had the privelidge of driving some of the most advanced vehicles using desiel and have achieved close to 9.0 Mpg in some areas of the United States.

Imagine going from 9 MPG to 30 the fuel costs savings alone is in the thousands per month.

[Anonymous]

I'm tired of hearing the lies that large pickups with V8 engines get 28 to 30 MPG. Who do you think you are kidding?

Read this federal site for the Year 2005 gas mileage reports:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2005_GasolineVehicles.pdf

A small V8 might get 21 MPG highway..... A big V-8 gets 18 or 19 MPG. Whether Ford, Chevy, or Dodge....

This test is done on a dynameter..... which reflects absolute perfect conditions: warm day, no wind or rain, straight driving.....

It even says at that site, most of us will get 10-20 percent less for normal driving, 20-40 percent less for aggressive driving....

A SAINT CAN'T GET BETTER MILEAGE!

[edblysard]

Don,
Sorry, but not only did I do the math long hand, but the digital read out in the dashboard backed up my mileage.

A 2005 Dodge Magnum Station wagon.

Build date, 08/2004.

5.7 liter MDS Hemi engine.

Car weighs 4400lbs.

Drove Houston to San Antonio on June 16th.

27.1 mpg, at 75 mph.

On the return, 28.5 mpg,,, which I contribute to the majority of the trip being downhill.

Either way, I don’t lie...

Funny, your chart shows the Chevy Cobalt...which is not in production yet, only the prototypes exist.
I know, I tried to buy one, last week, and was offered a chance to get on the production list.
The figures in your "Federal Chart" are not real world figures, they are projections, based on pre-production numbers and estimated mileage, whether it is on a dyno or not, they don’t reflect the real world numbers the cars give.

I guess you have a problem with the real world intruding on your "facts".

That’s what I love about the "eco righteous", they are as intolerant as the "moral" and the "religious" righteous, and as self centered and insulting when someone is silly enough to present facts that do not agree with their party’s view of what’s right and wrong in the world.

Does it really bother you that much that Daimler Chrysler came up with an 8 cylinder engine that drops to 4 when the need for all 8 isn’t there?
Not only does my behemoth meet the California emission standards, it routinely exceeds the EPA mileage expectations on the window sticker.

By the way, the exact same engine is in the 2005 Hemi Ram Pick up, and gets the same mileage.

Or does it bother you more that some of us don’t give blanket approval to your version of what is, or should be, the right way to live and behave?

That somehow your moral version of what we should drive, and how we should conduct ourselves is better than what we poor lying idiots can come up with for ourselves...

Well, I can’t find where I called you a liar, but apparently it isn’t beyond you to stand on your eco-pulpit and call me a liar, so...

Take your self-righteous tree hugging self, and go... a whale!

After taking a drive in my gas guzzler, I decided to edit my post here, for the simple reason it's ending stooped to the low level of of yours...

Tell ya what, you tootle around in your Volvo, or old VW all you want too..in fact, take a hint from another forum member, and ride a bicycle...save gas, and the poor whale.
Ed

[Anonymous]

There is only one solution to this situation, and that is to force accountability from those who brought this problem on to us. We need a tax on environmentalists and on those who donate to environmental groups, because it is them and only them who have created the massive economic disincentive to build and expand refineries, and drill for oil and gas in every area with even the most remote hydrocarbon promise. We need to have the IRS go back through everyone's tax records and find out who gave money to these groups and then wrote it off as a "charitable donation". Then we need to send those folks a bill equal to the total amount they have given to these groups, and if they don't pay up ASAP, then the fed should immediately garni***heir wages and/or put a lien on thier assets. Take the typical environmentalist's garish home with the mahogany siding, the redwood deck, and the seal skin rugs, sell it at auction, and use the proceeds to create a trust fund intended to provide incentive for oil companies, wildcatters, basically anyone willing to risk their own dime to bring more energy to the marketplace.

Unless and until the plethora of economic disincentives are ameliorated, we will all have to suffer for the actions of the Big Green Cult of Idiocy. Environmentalism is an economic cancer, and we are quickly approaching the point of no return in which the chances of reversing this cancer just might be possible. If something isn't done soon, we can all kiss our USA goodbye.

[Anonymous]

Why did you bother to refuel? With a 26 gallon tank, getting 28 MPG with that Dodge Hemi, you should have been able to go 728 miles. Yes, 26X28=728. Houston to San Antonio is on my map 199 miles.

Obviously, your statement above is very revealing.... You could have done it with a gas tank 60 percent full. If you filled up going there, why did you refill coming back? Everyone I knows uses the speedometer zero setting to start a new tank of gas.You use the mileage between gas fillups and the amount of gas it takes to fill your tank to figure out your mileage. Anything less is a farce....

Read this link from the Washington Post....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/23/AR2005052301937.html

Why are all of the consumer agencies complaining that the EPA gas mileage numbers are to high?

Is yours the only truck in America that actually gets 30 percent more mileage than an EPA sticker.....

I think not!

I carpool with a friend who drives a 2004 Dodge Ram Hemi pickup. He used to claim he got 25 MPG.... To test it, he drove 2 weeks one time, and I drove my 2004 Volkswagon Jetta TDI 2 weeks. It turned out he only got 17 MPG, EPA states 18 MPG Highway, while mine car got 42 MPG, EPA states 44 MPG Highway....

Consumer Reports says no one gets the EPA estimates..... NO ONE.... The link above explains why.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark

Why did you bother to refuel? With a 26 gallon tank, getting 28 MPG with that Dodge Hemi, you should have been able to go 728 miles. Yes, 26X28=728. Houston to San Antonio is on my map 199 miles.

Obviously, your statement above is very revealing.... You could have done it with a gas tank 60 percent full. If you filled up going there, why did you refill coming back? Everyone I knows uses the speedometer zero setting to start a new tank of gas.You use the mileage between gas fillups and the amount of gas it takes to fill your tank to figure out your mileage. Anything less is a farce....

Read this link from the Washington Post....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/23/AR2005052301937.html

Why are all of the consumer agencies complaining that the EPA gas mileage numbers are to high?

Is yours the only truck in America that actually gets 30 percent more mileage than an EPA sticker.....

I think not!

I carpool with a friend who drives a 2004 Dodge Ram Hemi pickup. He used to claim he got 25 MPG.... To test it, he drove 2 weeks one time, and I drove my 2004 Volkswagon Jetta TDI 2 weeks. It turned out he only got 17 MPG, EPA states 18 MPG Highway, while mine car got 42 MPG, EPA states 44 MPG Highway....

Consumer Reports says no one gets the EPA estimates..... NO ONE.... The link above explains why.....

Don you are one of the very few people I consider very HAPPY to debate the issue to death.

Fine.

Why did he refuel the truck? Probably for the same reason I do. When half full fill it up!

Repeat after me: "When the fuel tank is half empty, I will fill it up again."

You never know when you will need that full tank. Especially in trucking.

All three of my cars are capable of 300 miles, one can do 420 miles the other two are proven at 350 miles.

I fill my tanks at 200 miles or mid week on the active vehicles once a week.

When I take road trips, 200 miles is the fuel stop and 4 hour break. That is the way I do it.

Take your rig out on some roads out west and you will see signs "NO FUEL 76 miles" Believe me.. YOU DONT WANT TO SEE THAT SIGN NEAR EMPTY!

I dont know how the others feel, but this is my last post in this dying thread.

What a shame.

Oh by the way.. a pickup truck is designed to haul loads some distance. A tiny VW JEtta is strictly for commuting to work with good gas mileage.

[edblysard]

Man,
I love it when people don’t read what is written.
I gassed up in Houston, before setting out.
Show me where I said I gassed up before leaving San Antonio...
(Hint, I didn’t)

But you assumed I did, because that fits with what you think, and is part of your mind set.
You seem to think it is ok for you to twist what is written to fit your preconceived ideas.

My car has a computer information center, which, among other things, tells you how much fuel is in each tank.
That’s right, it has a split tank, riding on each side of the drive shaft...oh, I did forget to mention it’s a rear wheel drive.

It also tells you how many hours the engine has run, highest speed, how many miles to empty based on current gas use, ambient air temp outside, compass direction, in degrees, angle of the steering wheel (the stability program and ABS brakes use this) gas pedal position in percent, engine rpm history, oil pressure in real time, gas mileage, amount of gas in each tank, total gas left in both, digital speedo, and it does so in English, French, Spanish, German, and Portuguese, ( you have to order the last one from the factory) the list goes on and on.

Gas tanks hold 19 gallons total.
It is not that hard to stop, reset the miles run to zero, check how much gas is in the car, and write it down.
The entire car, including the radio, is controlled via computer, it doesn’t even have a throttle cable, the computer reads where the gas pedal is, and opens the throttle plate accordingly.
At idle, it’s a four cylinder, and under most conditions, such as a constant speed, it stays a four cylinder.
Tap the gas, you get all eight.
Based on throttle plate position, fuel use, ambient air temp in the intake, and several other factors, the computer looks for the best mileage/ fuel efficient settings.
The tranny is a Mercedes tranny, the computer shifts it for you, and finds the best gearing for the present conditions, it will up shift, or down shift, and you never even feel it happen.
Get on the freeway, set the cruise control, and let the computer do everything but steer.
You zip along, at 75 mph, on four cylinders, and don’t even realize it!

And, you’r such a doofus; I said it got 27/28 freeway only, not total city and freeway.
As I am smarter than you assume, and don’t live on the freeway, I had to dive a few miles on city streets.
My average city mileage is between 17 and 19 mpg, depends on how I drive.
I have managed to go out and "play" and get it down to 11/12 mpg,
I had to work at that.

Oh, and you need to buy a new map, it is 189 miles city center to city center, Houston to San Antonio.

But that’s ok; you are going to believe what you wi***o... and find more "Federal Charts" to back up your beliefs, all the while ignoring real world facts that don’t fit your belief system.

And, of course, we don’t want any facts messing up your prejudice.

By the way, have you even driven one of these cars?

Fact, it really does get 28 mpg on the freeway.
Fact, the MDS (multiple displacement system) works.

Look for this technology to begin showing up on all car and trucks in the next few years...I would hazard a guess that by 2007, most cars, both domestic and foreign, will be computer controlled as much as mine is.
This thing even has an event recorder, which loops through, and keeps the last 5 seconds of control surface settings, speed, direction, stuff like that, in the event of the air bags deploying (you have an accident).

But your mind is made up...unless someone agrees with you and your view of the world; they are liars, or stupid, for not being as narrow-minded as you.

You are so blinded by your preconceived notions of "truth" you fail to see anything outside the boundaries of your own prejudice.

It is sad that you are willing to lock yourself into such a narrow world.

You and Chicken Little go on and spend the rest of your life worrying about the falling sky; I plan to spend my life marveling at the stars.


Ed

[tree68]

My 2002 GMC has the 4.3L V6. Won't do wheelies, but isn't a dog either. On a couple of recent road trips I got 500 miles out of a tank of gas (and had room to play). I think the tank is around 28 gallons. I know it's usually on the low side of 20 mpg, since I record my fuel purchases in a book. My mileage is a mix of local streets and roads, state highways, and interstates.

Sure, I'd like to reconsider my vehicle choice, but you won't see me in a Cooper Mini - I'm 6'5", 240 lbs. I like the full sized truck because I have room for me, and the stuff I carry (got room for a full set of firefighter's gear in your trunk?, plus a tool box, EMS gear, laptop computer, etc). My next vehicle probably won't be a pickup, but an SUV is still an option.

Probably the biggest factor in my decision to stay with my current vehicle is the fact that in a few months, it'll be paid off and I can put that $500+ a month to use elsewhere. Once it gets to costing more for maintenance than a new car payment, I'll think about changing over.

BTW - it was on the news last night - Ford is in the toilet now, too. Might even be worse than GM.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

...The entire car, including the radio, is controlled via computer, it doesn’t even have a throttle cable, the computer reads where the gas pedal is, and opens the throttle plate accordingly.
At idle, it’s a four cylinder, and under most conditions, such as a constant speed, it stays a four cylinder.
Tap the gas, you get all eight.
Based on throttle plate position, fuel use, ambient air temp in the intake, and several other factors, the computer looks for the best mileage/ fuel efficient settings.
The tranny is a Mercedes tranny, the computer shifts it for you, and finds the best gearing for the present conditions, it will up shift, or down shift, and you never even feel it happen.
Get on the freeway, set the cruise control, and let the computer do everything but steer.
You zip along, at 75 mph, on four cylinders, and don’t even realize it!...

...Look for this technology to begin showing up on all car and trucks in the next few years...I would hazard a guess that by 2007, most cars, both domestic and foreign, will be computer controlled as much as mine is.
This thing even has an event recorder, which loops through, and keeps the last 5 seconds of control surface settings, speed, direction, stuff like that, in the event of the air bags deploying (you have an accident)....

Ed

Hey Ed

I remember when GM first tried this MDS type system back in the early 80's, Cadillac tried out didnt they? An on board computer was supposed to control the flow of fuel and ignition depending on load and speed, it was called the 2-4-6-8 system or something like that, it was supposed to be variable from all 8 cylinders under acceleration or load down to only 2 cylinders if idling or going downhill.

I also remember it was a bloody disaster, the dam computer control system never worked right so the cars would be trying to go up grades on 4 cylinders, or idling on all 8. Guess it only took 20 years for computers to catch up with the ideas, eh?

I'm still not convinced all this 'puter controlled "drive by wire" stuff is a great idea, the biggest repair expense on my old Honda Civic was when the computer processor chip crapped out at 100,000 miles and cost me over $1K to fix. Open top of housing, pull old chip, insert new, here's your bill, sir! ...OUCH!

Give me a good mechanical control systems please, at least until these things have a few years under them and are proven to last at least past 100k miles,[;)][8D]

[Anonymous]

vsmith

In Heavy Trucks on the road (18 wheelers) I drove by wire many years. While I started out thinking I will be buried with manual transmission in my hands because it is king.

Humans cannot get that last bit of really useful efficiency out of a rig. They do get close.

Everything on a typical Freightliner Classic XL or Century is driven by a computer. Very little of the hundreds of "Points" is manually configurable on the tractor.

Driving a old R model mack equippted with many gauges, you had to think about transmission heat, axle heat, manifold heat, current fuel usage, availible horsepower to the wheels etc etc etc... It is quite possible to drive across a state by keeping the 60 or so gauges "In the green" and not recall anything outside on the highway unless something like a developing accident grabbed your attention.

Now computers take care of all that. No problem. Except that in low water situations you need a peice of metal to bypass the sensor when you are only a gallon low. That is my only complaint.

When the ECM fails (The brain) there is no choice but to replace it before you can even crank it again. It is not cheap.

I long for the old days of muscle cars and a tool box from sears with extra points, wires and plugs as well as the Fluids that are usually needed to keep it running in good shape. The days of power and simplicity. I think those days are gone.

I know of several places out west where I could still purchase one of these preserved by the hot desert heat for a few thousand dollars.

But in my vehicles the computer does a pretty good job. I have a supercharged V6 in one of them and I enjoy being able to get up and go at times. But that old thing is quite consistent with the mileage.

It is going on something like 210,000 miles now and on it's second or thrid set of everything such as tires, plugs etc. And running at factory tolerances as well as the day it was first built. According to the onboard computer at the shop.

[spbed]

CNBC just announced oil hit $60.00 per barrel

[dekemd]

The sad part about the current rise in price is that it's all a bunch of speculation. The US and Britian closed their consulates in Nigeria because of a possible terrorist threat. Nigeria is a moderate oil producer, so the speculators in the oil futures markets freaked out and started buying up oil futures as fast as they could. This drives the price up. It's been over a week now and still nothing has actually happened in Nigeria. The oil is still flowing, it's just that everyone thinks that something MIGHT happen.

There are several people who have posted that they welcome and will pay for higher oil prices, because it will force others to drive more fuel efficeint cars. I want to see what these people say when high prices start hitting them in places other than at the pump. If prices stay high or go higher, guess what? Your property taxes are going to go up. All those police, fire, and ems vehicles, buses, garbage trucks, etc. have got to have gas. The states, cities, and counties, cannot and will not just eat the additional cost. They are going to raise taxes to cover it. Some vehicles, like fire trucks, just can't be downsized. "I'm sorry sir, I know your house is still on fire, but we had to get a smaller, more fuel efficient tanker and it doesn't hold as much water as the old one and we ran out." That'll go over real well.

Other things will go up in price too. The power company needs those big bucket trucks to work on the lines. Power bill is going up. Phone company is the same. Phone bill going up. Need to ship or receive something from Fedex. Gonna cost you more.

There is a lot more at stake than just what you pay at the pump.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

CNBC just announced oil hit $60.00 per barrel

MSNBC rreports that oil retreated to 59.40 close to the close, still to high. Refining seems to be part of the problem and a lack of will in the country to do anything about it. [2c]

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd


There is a lot more at stake than just what you pay at the pump.

You are correct, there will be a LOT MORE things at stake, even outside the gasoline aspect. 2/3 of a barrel of oil is used for transportation; the other 1/3 is used for those other things at stake.

[Anonymous]

Let them raise the services fees if they need to. A few dollars a year out of my 80 dollars or so property taxes to the revenuer (Yes we actually use that word here in AR) wont hurt.

I pity the poor folks back home in thier half million dollar houses where taxes get expensive.

I support Law Enforcement, Fire etc... I am ruthless in paying my fees. Let em raise it. Compared to my previous residence in another state it is not a problem.

[edblysard]

Vic,
GM called their version DOD, Displacement on Demand...and yeah, they turned the gas off, and cut the firing to the spark plug...
The draw back was you still were dragging the pistons and the valve train around; the valves would open and close just as if the gas was still on...which meant you were compressing air in the cylinder.
And the computers were junk...

The Dodge MDS uses the engine oil to lock the valves closed on the cylinders not in use, through a pin in the lifters, and then "crack" them every few thousand RPM to vent...the air trapped inside gets compressed, and as it compresses, it heats up(expands) which helps pu***he piston up and down...
The Hemi has a coil and two spark plugs per cylinder, no "distributor" to speak of, the computer decides the perfect timing point, and can just skip the deactivated cylinders completely.
Same on the fuel rail and injectors, it adjusts each one as needed.
The computer "rotates" through all the cylinders, locking different sets of four, so the wear is even all around.

As for dependability, I have 14000 miles on it so far, not a single problem with
the engine...and Chrysler gives you a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, repair and parts, excludes brake pads after 1 year, and tires after 6 months.

On New Years Eve, we picked up a rock between the rotor and dust shield on the front brakes...made a horrible squeal...scared the rotor all to crap.
Aimee called the dealer, they sent a flat bed tow truck for me and the car, and a cab for Aimee and the kids...took us and the car to the dealer, racked it, looked at the rotor, then replaced the rotor, bearings, seals, and the pads...all at no charge, at 6 pm, on New Years Eve.

Oh, and the best part...the engine is designed to run on 87 to 89 octane. it doesn’t like the expensive stuff at all, makes the computer advance the timing to the point you can get pinging...I run 87 octane from Costco all the time, and love the performance.

And don’t tell Don, but I went to San Antonio today to pick up my daughter...reset all the gauges to zero in my driveway...halfway there, decided to take a side trip to Flatonia, (yup, its really called that) to look at their train watching pavilion...and got a few shots of the westbound Amtrak hitting the diamond...
then followed old Hwy 90 to San Antonio instead of the interstate...drove around SA for a while, showed the kids the Alamo, junk like that...

Did manage to use up 3/4 of a tank of gas, so filled up before heading home.

Drove back on IH 10 all the way, and sitting in my driveway right now, the mileage gauge says I got 23.4 mpg combined.....I would guess 90% freeway driving.

Ed

[Anonymous]

Oh man, you were in Flatonia today? I wish I'd known that, I'd have run over from Schulenburg. Did you talk to Tommy?

mike

[edblysard]

The pavilion was deserted...we were there around 10am...went to the tower and caboose in town first...nice jail you got there!
Had to get to SA, so only sat around for a few minutes.
Watched UP move a few motors out of the yard, looked like they were making a hole for something, noticed a train holding on the other side of the diamond, looked like it was inbound from Victoria...then heard the Amtrak sounding for the crossings in town...got a nice shot of it just in front of the hosue on the south east side of the diamond.

Hey, what was the little building that is right next to the pavilion, covered with ivy..looks like a old depot or freight house, and has a odd little metal tower next to the tracks?

All in all, a pretty nice set up you guys got there!
Next chance I have a day off, and dont have to play taxi for my kids, I might take a cooler and a lunch and go spend a day just watching..


Hey, send me a email, my address book got wiped out and I dont have your email address...
Ed

[Anonymous]

(06-27-05)
This morning on CNBC the price per barrel just hit $60.40.
Allan.

[Modelcar]

....Looked in to an investment office when we were out to lunch and sure enough on the screen...crude was listed at 60 plus a bbl....! Just in time for a majority of Summer vacation driving....Now isn't that a coincidence....

[spbed]

Based on @ $50.00 per barrel gas was around $2.20 per gal then $60.00 oil equates to $2.40 per gal gas

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Based on @ $50.00 per barrel gas was around $2.20 per gal then $60.00 oil equates to $2.40 per gal gas

or at least for now that is.
Allan.

[markperr]

Read an article in the Sunday paper about Cargill producing fuel ina plant somewhere in Kansas or Nebraska outta soybean and or corn. Interviewed a rep from the company that said the fuel source can be replaced every 90 days instead of every 90 million years. sounds like a good foundation for alternative fuels. If we can get all the people who freaked out over three mile island and "The China Syndrome" to go away, we could also bring back nuclear power. There is a new reactor known as a pebble bed reactor. Can be built and operated for a fraction of the cost of a conventional fission type reactor and it's far safer too. Hydrogen powered vehicles are in their infancy but are making positive inroads. In the meantime, all we can do is grin and bear it.

Mark

[Modelcar]

...For all the Hybrids being sold daily that should start doing some good....Like making up for big SUV's on the road now and new ones being sold. Furthermore large SUV sales are plummeting.