Sussex Wisconsin and GPS

[gabe]

I took an unexpected trip to Milwaukee (actually Brookfield) this weekend to visit my Aunt. I had three hours to waste on Saturday, so I thought I would take a map and check out the railfanning in Wisconsin--which I have never done before.

Looking at the map, I thought Sussex would be my best bet, as three lines converged upon a fairly small area. After a 30 minute drive two hours of train watching got me NOTHING. Given the weekend and the holiday, I wasn't terribly surprised.

Nonetheless, it was disapointing. As there was a bar and grill with a rooftop patio. Unfortunately, it was pointing the wrong direction, as you could only see the Wisconsin Central line from it. Had it been on the other side of the bar, it could have been the best train watching spot of all time: order some food, watch some trains, drink some beer--the good life.

Gabe

P.S. By the way, my aunt let me borrow her BMW for my excursion. I could care less about the BMW, but it had GPS with the full map (which included train routes). That is the coolest thing ever for going out and trying to find trains. I have got to get it in my next car.

P.P.S. In a siding on the WC/CN line there were three or four silver passenger cars (which appeared well maintained) labeled "Silver Chalet." Does anyone know anything about this?

[jeaton]

Gabe

Was the tavern you stopped at the one at the Duplainville crossing of CP & CN (WC)?

Jay

[Anonymous]

My guess is that you were at the point where the former CNW (now UP) line between Milwaukee and Minneapolis crosses over the former WC (now CN) between Fond du Lac and Chicago.

The UP line gets 2-3 trains per day in each direction (1 manifest and the TripleCrown road railer train.) The CN train should be much heavier, tho perhaps a little light due to the holiday.

A suggestion for a future visit would be to go just a few miles South on the CN line to Duplainville (noted above.) This is where the CP crosses CN. Should get a little more traffic there as this is the CP line from Chicago-Milw-Minneapolis. Amtrak's Empire Builder rides CP here.

I'm guessing the passenger cars might be the private cars owned by printing company Quad Graphics. The owner of the company has several cars. Its a pretty sizable printing company which prints many magazines and formerly printed the Sears catalog.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Gabe

Was the tavern you stopped at the one at the Duplainville crossing of CP & CN (WC)?

Jay

I am pretty sure the crossing was in the heart of Sussex.

I am positive about the WC line. But, I didn't get a chance to look up the two lines that cross it. There are two bridges just north of the bar, one is UP and there is one just 150 yards north of it, which I think is CP.

Gabe

[Bergie]

Hi Gabe,

First, those passenger cars are owned by Quad/Graphics, the company that prints many of our magazines (including Trains).

Sussex was just a little too far north. Duplainville would have been a better bet, because that's where the CP and CN (ex-WC) lines cross, although the diamond is off the road a little bit and getting near it is frowned upon (although that doesn't stop some people). I'll never say that Duplainville is a great railfanning locale, because it's not. The scenery is bad, however, it's a good place to start from (or a good place to get roster shots on the CP from the business park frontage road that parallels the CP main).

I'm curious to know the name of the place with the rooftop patio. Was it right around the corner from the Hardees restaurant?

Bergie

[mudchicken]

Gabe: What you are looking at in the Beemer is GIS (Geograhic Information System)....GPS (Global Positioning System) helps put the red dot on the map where you are, harnessed to the GIS display. The two are not synonimous and most of the time work independently of each other in other applications. (The GPS system in the car is hardly precise, especially when the car is moving)....

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

There are two bridges just north of the bar, one is UP and there is one just 150 yards north of it, which I think is CP.

Gabe

The bridge to the north is the Bugline Recreational (i.e. bicycle) Trail. It used to be a Milwaukee Road branchline, that was all curvy and hilly and probably contributed to MILW's demise... but seriously, this line was once the source for a lot of Lannon stone in nearby Lannon. The branchline ran as far as North Lake, where it parallelled the C&NW before dead-ending -- no connection to the C&NW. The North Lake end of the line was home to the Kettle Moraine RR for many years, while the east end of the line was Wisconsin & Southern's Menomonee Falls Sub before US-41/45 reconstruction cut it off east of the freeway (used to be a grade crossing), and the remainder was abandoned in 2003-04. The middle section has been the bike trail for quite a few years now.

Gabe, good to have you out in my neck of the woods!!! Sorry you didn't see any trains, usually it's pretty lively, but with the holiday weekend... Hope to "see" you around here again!

-Mark
Milwaukee, WI (south side)
www.fuzzyworld3.com
www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

PS How old was your map??? -MH

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

Hi Gabe,

First, those passenger cars are owned by Quad/Graphics, the company that prints many of our magazines (including Trains).

Sussex was just a little too far north. Duplainville would have been a better bet, because that's where the CP and CN (ex-WC) lines cross, although the diamond is off the road a little bit and getting near it is frowned upon (although that doesn't stop some people). I'll never say that Duplainville is a great railfanning locale, because it's not. The scenery is bad, however, it's a good place to start from (or a good place to get roster shots on the CP from the business park frontage road that parallels the CP main).

I'm curious to know the name of the place with the rooftop patio. Was it right around the corner from the Hardees restaurant?

Bergie

Bergie,

I do seem to remember seeing a Hardees nearby. Although it wasn't close to where I was parked.

There actually were two bar and grils. One bar and grill was on one side of, I think, 74 (the road signs were a little messed up, my GPS map said the road was 74 but a sign said it was 614 or some 600 road), which was more or less right next to the WC line. The other bar and grill, which had the upper deck patio, was about 100 yards from the track and on the north side of, I think, 74. Given the elevation of the UP line and the line behind it, it would be awesome if the bar and grill faced the other direction.

I parked at the bar closer to the tracks. I wish I could remember the names. I only went to the bar and grill close to the tracks to order a beer out of politeness, since I was using their parking lot.

Also, I noticed the CP/CN intersection, which would have actually been much closer to where I was staying. I decided not to rail fain it because there didn't seem to be a close public place to get a good view.

Were I a local, I might have chanced it, but I think law enforcement tends to be a little more strict with out-of-staters, neither I nor my wife is licensed to practice law in Wisconsin, and I did not want to incur their wrath.

Thanks for the advice.

Gabe

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Gabe: What you are looking at in the Beemer is GIS (Geograhic Information System)....GPS (Global Positioning System) helps put the red dot on the map where you are, harnessed to the GIS display. The two are not synonimous and most of the time work independently of each other in other applications. (The GPS system in the car is hardly precise, especially when the car is moving)....

Mudchicken,

Thank you. I didn't realize that--until my law school loans are paid off, I don't think I am going to be able to afford either and I haven't paid too much attention to them until now.

Gabe

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

There are two bridges just north of the bar, one is UP and there is one just 150 yards north of it, which I think is CP.

Gabe

The bridge to the north is the Bugline Recreational (i.e. bicycle) Trail. It used to be a Milwaukee Road branchline, that was all curvy and hilly and probably contributed to MILW's demise... but seriously, this line was once the source for a lot of Lannon stone in nearby Lannon. The branchline ran as far as North Lake, where it parallelled the C&NW before dead-ending -- no connection to the C&NW. The North Lake end of the line was home to the Kettle Moraine RR for many years, while the east end of the line was Wisconsin & Southern's Menomonee Falls Sub before US-41/45 reconstruction cut it off east of the freeway (used to be a grade crossing), and the remainder was abandoned in 2003-04. The middle section has been the bike trail for quite a few years now.

Gabe, good to have you out in my neck of the woods!!! Sorry you didn't see any trains, usually it's pretty lively, but with the holiday weekend... Hope to "see" you around here again!

-Mark
Milwaukee, WI (south side)
www.fuzzyworld3.com
www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

PS How old was your map??? -MH

Mark,

Thanks for the advice. I didn't realize the second line had been pulled. The map I was using was the car's GIS, which I think was 2002 or 2003. It should both lines as active. That would explain a lot though, as I drove quite a ways north of the west side of Sussex looking for the line before I gave up.

Gabe

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

There actually were two bar and grils. One bar and grill was on one side of, I think, 74 (the road signs were a little messed up, my GPS map said the road was 74 but a sign said it was 614 or some 600 road), which was more or less right next to the WC line. The other bar and grill, which had the upper deck patio, was about 100 yards from the track and on the north side of, I think, 74. Given the elevation of the UP line and the line behind it, it would be awesome if the bar and grill faced the other direction.

Gabe

Well, we don't have any 600 roads in Wisconsin, although WIS-164 used to end at the corner of WIS-74 and, um, WIS-74... that would be "Waukesha Road" and "Main Street", which is 74 going south and 74 going east, respectively. 164 used to be the highway coming out of Waukesha, heading north past Duplainville, and ending at Main Street, where WIS-74 started and headed east. 164 was moved about 2 miles west a few years ago, and 74 extended south to Capitol Drive, but I wouldn't be surprised if there still was a sign still lurking around there that still said 164... Yeah, it can be confusing traveling Wisconsin's highways sometimes!!!

-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com
www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[gabe]

Yeah, I was definitely on a road that said "Waukesha." I think I took that road into Sussex, as I actually approached it from the north side.

You are also probably right about 164. I am dislexic and transposing numbers is a big problem of mine (a lawyer is a person who wants to have a meaningful career but is afraid of blood and numbers).

Gabe

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Mark,

Thanks for the advice. I didn't realize the second line had been pulled. The map I was using was the car's GIS, which I think was 2002 or 2003. It should both lines as active. That would explain a lot though, as I drove quite a ways north of the west side of Sussex looking for the line before I gave up.

Gabe

Gabe,

Interestingly, as I was just looking at my DeLorme atlas (from 2000) it still showed the rail line, although parts of it were labeled "abandoned"... then again, road map makers aren't always really adept at keeping railroads up to date...[|(]

-Mark

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Gabe: What you are looking at in the Beemer is GIS (Geograhic Information System)....GPS (Global Positioning System) helps put the red dot on the map where you are, harnessed to the GIS display. The two are not synonimous and most of the time work independently of each other in other applications. (The GPS system in the car is hardly precise, especially when the car is moving)....

Mudchicken,

Thank you. I didn't realize that--until my law school loans are paid off, I don't think I am going to be able to afford either and I haven't paid too much attention to them until now.

Gabe

With that point registered, now the object of the sermon: When you are in a position to own a Beemer or other high dollar "jogging shoe" with onboard GIS/GPS capability, please remember that GIS people are notoriously bad about entering correct railroad data in their metadata files (background maps) and frequently get caught guessing. This drives railroad professionals nuts! It may louse up your day when you set up shop near a track looking for a certain train and it passes behind you in the woods on another track. [%-)]Mark is hinting at the same thing about dated info on maps or guessing by GIS data entry people (Garbage In = Garbage Out)[^][^][^]

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Gabe: What you are looking at in the Beemer is GIS (Geograhic Information System)....GPS (Global Positioning System) helps put the red dot on the map where you are, harnessed to the GIS display. The two are not synonimous and most of the time work independently of each other in other applications. (The GPS system in the car is hardly precise, especially when the car is moving)....

Mudchicken,

Thank you. I didn't realize that--until my law school loans are paid off, I don't think I am going to be able to afford either and I haven't paid too much attention to them until now.

Gabe

With that point registered, now the object of the sermon: When you are in a position to own a Beemer or other high dollar "jogging shoe" with onboard GIS/GPS capability, please remember that GIS people are notoriously bad about entering correct railroad data in their metadata files (background maps) and frequently get caught guessing. This drives railroad professionals nuts! It may louse up your day when you set up shop near a track looking for a certain train and it passes behind you in the woods on another track. [%-)]Mark is hinting at the same thing about dated info on maps or guessing by GIS data entry people (Garbage In = Garbage Out)[^][^][^]

It was still pretty cool, especially since I didn't know any of the back roads. But, thank you for the advice, and I shall heed it.

Gabe