PULLMAN PORTERS

[curtissjoyce]

A year or so ago there was a movie on cable with the title something like "10,000 Black Men Named George." Did anyone see it? How can I get a copy? Thanks in advance for your help!

[Richard A]

Go to Amazon.com and do a search. You'll find it there in DVD (maybe VHS?). for less than $15.00.

My father was a Pullman porter and even though it is painful for me to watch this movie, it IS part of my history.

[CSXrules4eva]

Ok I have the movie and I purchased it from Suncoast Video Store in DVD form. The coast was $14.00. I'm not sure were your location is curtissjoyce, but over here in the greater Philadelphia reagion you can pick it up anywere there is a Suncoast store in the mall. If you don't have any luck with that try their web site.
I thought that movie was pretty good.

Richard A I'm glad your father was able to get through the embarissing humilation porters went through. My great grandfather worked for the PRR on MOW. I don't know how they treated him racial wise but, he loved trains. I imagined they treated him pretty well since they gave him a farm house allong the what is now NS line through Hunington Valley in PA. They also provided support to his family when he died. I have his old pass from Penn Central to ride anywere for free along PRR or I should say PC's line.

[Richard A]

CSXrules4eva (or Sarah),

I am a 60 year old man who still loves railroading and trains. I always have. My father worked for the T&NO, then the SP. And while the railroad never gave him or us anything like a farm house or such, they paid him a good wage and my mother (85 years old) still lives on his RR pension. He was treated "all right" most of the time by T&NO and SP, it was the passengers that made his life a misery at times. But he did his job with integrity, honesty and love. That's the Pullman Porter I remember.

[Anonymous]

Hi All [:)]

I did some research about 6 months or so ago. I was interested in Pullman cars and their history. I searched through all kinds of stuff on the internet.

Several things still stand out. It seems that George was not a nice guy, or maybe that is just what many of those who worked for him thought. He may have produced a good product but he seemed to be a tight wad. [:0]

Many of the famous movie stars and Hollywood types road in those cars often. The porters loved to wait on certain people because they were good tippers. Many friendships were started between the famous people and the porters.

The Trains magazine had a story about a Pullman Conductor a while back, but the Conductor did have a much better job than the porter.

The porters had to work long hours too. The porter's job was highly sought after though because of the tips they received.

I have not seen this movie, but it does sound like one I would like to see.

In any business or trade you have good people and bad people. I am sure some of the customers were not too nice to the porter. We can only hope those people were few and far between.

[daveklepper]

Some porters had more responsibility. In an economy move during the 30's, the Pullman Company decided to economize by having the Porter become the Porter-in-Charge and work with the regular train conductor on Pullman car lines where one Pullman car was all that was provided, and not use a Pullman conductor. I am not sure about what the division of responsibility between the train conductor and the port was.

[gmpullman]

Anyone interested in the struggle for dignity of the Pullman Porter should read "Those Pullman Blues" by David D. Perata ISBN 1-56833-124-X
An excellent oral history from the men who gave life to The Pullman Company.

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
Another good book is "Rising from the Rails" which came out very recently. I learned a lot. The author, a newspaper reporter, was surprised that the old men were so eager to have their stories come out. George Pullman was a rascal, there's no doubt, but he wasn't the only one who used the tip system, which continues still. Pullman was singleminded in his attempt to provide the best service by making his lowest employees work HARD at satisfying each and every customer. From what I read, it sounded like the passengers began calling the Pullman porters George on their own. I doubt that this would occur today. Remember, it was a different world in regard to race relations. It is sad that the change came just the passenger train bowed out as a major force in America.
The book said Pullman porters began the black middle class which means they must have done fairly well with tips and the pittance Pullman paid them; many, many owned their own homes. And all the other members of the community looked up to them. If E.D. Nixon had not had to make his trip on a Pullman, no one might have ever heard of Martin Luther King because Nixon would have led the first civil right march himself instead of calling on MLK.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[Anonymous]

In this age of practically everybody wishing to be politically correct, why do so many well meaning people insist on calling Sleeping Car Porters "PULLMAN PORTERS"?.
Study of the labor and human rights struggle will reveal that it is/well known that it was considered improper and rude to call a porter: "GEORGE" . This implied that the porter was "George Pullman's "BOY".
So why, again, must we give the Porter Mr Pullman's name as part of his title. He is NOT George Pullman's BOY, he is: a SLEEPING CAR PORTER by title.
I am a bit suprised in that even some hard researching authors have made this mistake many times.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Pullman porters were so-called because they worked for the Pullman Company, which operated almost all of the sleeping cars and some parlor cars. Also note that the Pullman conductor, who was distinct from the train conductor, was also employed by the Pullman Company.

I have also noticed that the role of A. Phillip Randolph in the labor and civil rights movement has been increasingly forgotten.

[Richard A]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Penn Central Black

In this age of practically everybody wishing to be politically correct, why do so many well meaning people insist on calling Sleeping Car Porters "PULLMAN PORTERS"?.
Study of the labor and human rights struggle will reveal that it is/well known that it was considered improper and rude to call a porter: "GEORGE" . This implied that the porter was "George Pullman's "BOY".
So why, again, must we give the Porter Mr Pullman's name as part of his title. He is NOT George Pullman's BOY, he is: a SLEEPING CAR PORTER by title.
I am a bit suprised in that even some hard researching authors have made this mistake many times.

Just reporting what was actually said and done, no more. My father's name tag had the word "Porter" on it; not Pullman Porter, Sleeping Car Porter, nor George or Boy. But he was called these and many other things, most too demeaning to mention. Being "politically correct" today changes nothing of the past. Your approach could be mistaken for revisionist history to me. The railroads of the 30's through 50's was what it was, good bad and in between. My father and family lived it and I inherited it. In spite of the less than humane treatment some passengers and employees leveled at PULLMAN PORTERS, these men made a living for their families and that living helped raise their sons and daughters above anything imaginable at that time.

[mersenne6]

Miles of Smiles, Years of Struggle is another good book about the Pullman Porters. There is also the self published - Memoirs of A Pullman Porter - which is an autobiography.

[tatans]

Not all porters were employed by the pullman company, Oscar Peterson's Father was a porter on the C.P.R. Check out "The Life of A Pullman Porter" by S.H.Holbrook if it's still available, and ask anyone associated with pullman porters what the "blue blanket' was.

[morseman]

In one of the books re porters,(not sure which one)
The author mentions the many celebrity movie stars
who travelled by train. Bob Hope & Bing Crosby
were mentioned. One was a real miser while
the other tipped lavishly. Who was the skin-flint
and who was the philanthropist ????????????

[daveklepper]

Randolph was also one of the four founders of the NAACP.

[mersenne6]

Morseman - I think the book you are referring to was The Railroaders by Leuthner - his was a collection of first person accounts of working for the railroad. One of the men interviewed for the book had been a Red Cap at Grand Central. He noted Jimmy Durante always had a $10.00 for a tip no matter how many bags while Old Man Rockefeller would just give you a dime and if you complained you were out of a job.

[Anonymous]

Richard A.
I disagree with NOTHING that you say in your above posts.
I should have taken a few more words to explain the slight differences in termonology.
MANY of the times I've heard the porter referred to as a PULLMAN PORTER were by loving relatives as well as careful researchers. Brother Randolph dignified the profession of our forefathers with the title of SLEEPING CAR PORTERS. If I am a revisionist (and I don't mean to be one), I'm revising thangs back to 1925, when he was doing his work.
Perhaps some of the confusion comes from the hat badges worn by Porters.
RR hat badges frequently had the employing company's name on the top line, followed by the occupation below. Add the PULLMAN CONDUCTOR (who also had a similar looking badge) into the equation and it gets confusing. In 'those days", trains had a "PULLMAN CONDUCTOR" and a "TRAIN CONDUCTOR", each with seperate but sometimes overlapping responsibilities, hence it was handy for the PULLMAN CONDUCTOR to be titlled as such.
No disrespect is intended, and as you might surmise from my title, I spent my career falling loosely under the DAVID P.MORGAN definition of "THE MAN CALLED GEORGE". Subsequently, I was written OUT of the history books by modern "revisionists" who are comfortable discussing ancient Civil Rights history but flinch at the mention of anything taking place after 1960.
Penn Central Black
A proud negro pioneer in a white dominated profession.

[Richard A]

Penn Central Black,

I understand your point now. Thanks for the clarification and reacting so politely to my mild rant. As a matter of fact, your last post reminded me of the very late 40's when my father would allow me to stay with him as he entertained fellow BSCP union members at our home. One of their discussions that I particularly remember had to do with the job responsibilities of the "Pullman Conductor", a Mr. Hatch. He was always very nice to me when I saw him and allowed me to follow him around on the train as he went about his duties. I was always afraid he would get fired, but he retired happily and successfully.

I grew up around trains and often chuckle (wryly) at some (most?) versions of railroad history vis-a-vis black struggles recorded as fact, when I know full well just the opposite took place. And don't get me started on the omissions.......

[tatans]

Am I missing something here? What is the differnce between "porter" "pullman porter"
"C.P.R. porter" etc. etc. I remember as a child travelling to Vancouver by myself, life would have been pretty scary without the confidence of the porter on our coach, I referred to him as "sir" which I believe is the proper term, I never heard the term George or any other refererence other than respect for his position, I also never saw anyone work so hard in my life, and I mean work. I also remember the authority these men commanded on running their coach, there were strict rules and you had better adhere to them or you were off the train.

[morseman]

MERSENNEE6 Yes I do recall reading the storry about
Durante and Rockeffeler. But in another book exclusively
about porters there was mention of Bob Hope & Bing Crosby.
The miser would have the porter running back and forth to the
dining car at all hours bringing him food & drinks and then
end up giving the porter a pittance of a tip

[Anonymous]

Gus Dixon was one of the finest individuals I ever met. I am proud to have known him as a friend. He started his career as a porter for the Pullman Company and ended it with Amtrak as a sleeping car attendant. Despite some of the things they had to put up with, the porters were as a group a major credit to their profession, their families, their race, and their country.

My hat's off to them all.

And Gus, may you rest in peace, old friend.

[Anonymous]

This is a great thread. I enjoyed the knowledge you folks shared with us. thank you. Easter

[Anonymous]

A few things.

When I was a brakeman on The Milwaukee in the '70's one of my jobs was flagman on Amtrak 9&8 between Chicago and Milwaukee. Returning from Milwaukee on no. 8, The Empire Builder, I would ride in the last car which was a sleeper. The attendants were mostly former Pullman men. They were all kind men, and eager to visit with a young brakeman, and regail me with stories from long ago. It was a pleasure to work with them. They taught me a lot about railroading, and people. Passengers could be rude to trainmen and porters alike.
When I would travel to New York on 40 and 41, in the sleeper, the men in charge were former Pullman men as well. They were even tempered, polite, and they could be really humorous as well. I miss them dearly.
A few years ago I did a PBS spot concerning my posters. The cameraman was very polite, spoke softly, and well. His good manners and spirit reminded me of Pullman men. In the TV spot was a painting I did of a Pullman attendant serving a meal in a Pullman restaurant car. He looked at it and the explained that his father was a Pullman porter. His father's spirit was inherited by the cameraman and we visited at length after the shoot.
A Pullman conductor had different duties from a railroad's train conductor. Just as a dining car steward differed from a train conductor, although they all were represented by the conductor's union. A train conductor is an operating employee whereby the authority for the operation of the train is vested. He may only operate upon his assigned division, and was covered by the hours of service law. He was responsible for lifting, inspecting, and cancelling tickets pertaining to railroad travel, along with being responsible for the fullfillment of operating rules. The Pullman Conductor traveled the entire length of the run of a train. He collected the Pullman tickets that covered assigned Pullman space occuppied. He managed the timeslips, and rest periods for the Pullman Porters assigned to the train. He could reassign accomodations, collcect cash for up-grades. He would work side-by-side with the train conductor in collecting transportation. The train conductor receiving the railroad (transportation) tickets, and the Pullman Conductor receiving the Pullman tickets for accomodations. The Pullman Conductor, at station stops, could signal to the train crew that all Pullman business had concluded, but he couldn't directly signal a highball to start a train. Although I'm sure this may well have happened.
A Pullman Porter was an employee assigned to a sleeping car run by the Pullman Company. A Milwaukee Road Sleeping Car Porter, as an example, was a porter, employeed by the railroad, assigned by The Milwaukee Road to a sleeping car owned and operated by The Milwaukee. Namely a Turalux economy sleeper. When the Pullman company ceased operations, their porters, now employees of the operating carriers, became "Sleeping Car Porters."
By the way, The Milwaukee employeed "Parlor Car Conductors." If the train had more than one parlor car, the Parlor Car Conductor handled all transportation collected in those cars. Like the railroads own sleeping car employees, he was governed by the dining car department.

Mitch