23 17 46 11
Originally posted by foureasy ... I learned from experience to plan my rest stops and also not waste rest time at bars,lady baiting etc.,... Two months as a train dispatcher taught me that EMS dispatching is nothing like train dispatching. I never even heard the terms like Hawged crew, dead-head, pigs, etc. until I started working at the railroad. I have read this post with much interest because understanding the rules of service is still not easy for me. And then someone throws in a new term "lady baiting. " Is this one of those moments when I should just remark, like I did during one of my locomotive rideouts and having read the walls in the bathroom at the crew station, "... interesting use of language." Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:36 PM Didn't you ever fish with the boat moving?(trolling)Same thing,except for ,you're trolling for some temporary companionship of the opposite sex.LOL Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:30 PM [:I] Oh. Thanks for the explanation. I learn something new everyday. lol Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:00 PM MBKCS, And that works both ways![:D] Foureasy, no, believe it or not, there is more room, front seat and back seat than a Lincoln Town Car... And its a lot faster! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:31 AM Ed,i went to your site,nice work there guy.Do you carve the watch cases also. Whats your mpg with the hemi? Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:05 PM Thanks, No, no carving onthe cases, yet. That site will go away in a few days...we are building a bigger one, more detail. And the Hemi is a MDS engine, multi displacment system. At freeway speeds, or when ever the onborad computer senses that the throttle plate is not moving outside certain settings, it drops four cylinders out, by locking the valves and shutting off the injectors. At idle, only four running. It gets 24 to 28 mpg highway, and 15 to 19 city, depending on how much you keep your foot out of it! Almost evrything on the car is controled by the computer, it dosnt even have a throttle cable, the computer reads the pedal position, and opens the throttle plate and adjust injector pressure accordingly. This thing will tell you when the battries in you key chain alarm fob are getting weak! It is Mercedes E class chassis parts with a Dodge green house, a Dodge engine, Mercedes tranny and three part rear end. And I can get more stuff in the back, than we can get in my wifes Durango. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply arbfbe Member sinceFebruary 2002 910 posts Posted by arbfbe on Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:03 AM Back in the days of the 16 hr Hours of Service Law, deadheading was considered by the FRA to be "rest" time. So you could work to the away from home terminal, get called upon arrival to deadhead to the home terminal on a drag local that works 15 6o 16 hours to get home and then be placed back on duty upon arrival at the home terminal account your 16 hour deadhead time was "rest". It was pretty rare but if it was snowing in the mountains and all the other supplies of crews were used up it was your chance to go back to the other end of the road. The 14 hr Hours of Service changed all that in 1970 or 1971. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:03 PM Arfbe,were you speaking of deadheading in the cab or in a caboose?I can't recall the movie,Danny Glover and Kevin Costner were in ,was about snow trains with caboose mounted flange plows,great movie.Did you work in the Rockies?Which line?What position?Etc.I'm interested in all things past in railroading. Thks,jim Reply Edit ValleyX Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 1,103 posts Posted by ValleyX on Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:48 PM In my part of the midwest, that is what I've been told, as I've posted before. I've essentially worked the road most all of my railroad career and have been in a lot of different situations. You are correct in saying that working right up to the twelve isn't usually an issue but it does happen. I will run it by an FRA man again and see what he says but I do not wi***o pass on erroneous information regarding sitting on trains and securing them, etc. Art, I got in on the last of the sixteen hour days, I WOULDN'T want to go back to that again!!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:17 PM Originally posted by edblysard If you are ordered to violate a rule, say, couple up the air on more than one double over, the crew can timeslip the railroad, (claim a work rule violation) and get another days basic pay. A good rule book shark can, on a road crew, almost double your days pay. Again, a lot of this depends on your local contract. Ed Ed, I need to clarify something that you posted in your note. You mentioned rules a couple of times in reference to work (or contract) rules. For example, your note about buckling air on more than one double is a contract provision, not a part of the General Code of Operating Rules. Same with the way you mentioned "A good rule book shark." Just a note of clarification. Lane Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:58 PM Very true, Lane. From our general chairman, the local contracts can be more restrictive than the national contract, but never more permissive. The national might not make mention of the number of double overs, but your local contract can limit them... Quite a few railroaders, and non railroaders, seem to think that the GCOR and the other rule book, the one CSX, NS and other east coast roads use, are laws... They are not, although some parts of the rules do use federal laws as their basis... Rules are not laws, but all the laws are in the rules. But the rules are nothing more that industry written guidelines. Your national contract follows and incorporates these rules into its system, and provides a way for the employees to "fine" a carrier if that carrier breaks any of these rules, via time slips... I don’t hold myself out as an expert on any aspect of railroading, rules compliance especially! So, the only "advice" I would ever offer anyone in a situation they don’t understand completely is the "first rule of railroading"..CYA, or "Cover your ***". If you’re not sure about something you are ordered to do, then make sure, if you decide to comply with the order, that you do so under protest, and document everything! If you are consistently order to break a rule, remember, the FRA is only a call away. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 10:20 AM Dear railroaders: As a railfan, this business about voluntarily braking rules is starting to make me a little worried. From your examples, it seems to be usually harmless. But say you're at the point of a train of chlorine-laden tank cars, and the dispatcher tells you to pass an absolute red signal at track speed when you can see another train coming your way. Doing so under protest won't do much good when all four crewmen are dead and there is a multi-million dollar toxic spill. Also, how would the FRA have authority in matters of rules-but-not-laws infractions? I had always thought railroads took a more "by the book" approach than you have presented here. And by the way, what is "doubling the air on more than one double"? Sincerely, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 2:14 PM Daniel, The rules don’t tell you what to do, they tell you what not to do. Example, a rule states you can not stop your train closer than 500 feet from the fouling point of a main track. It does not say you have to stop 500 feet away, all it says is you can’t stop closer than 500 feet. If you want to, you can stop 550 feet, or 600 feet away, but not closer than 500 feet. GCOR calls restricted speed... 6.27 Movement at Restricted Speed When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Train Engine Railroad car Men or equipment fouling the track Stop signal Or Derail or switch lined improperly The crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and not exceed 20 MPH. Comply with these requirements until the leading wheels reach a point where movement at restricted speed is no longer required It does not say restricted speed is 20 mph...It says not to exceed 20mph. 6.28 Movement on Other than Main Track Except when moving on a main track or on a track where a block system is in effect, trains or engines must move at a speed that allows them to stop within half the range of vision short of: • Train • Engine • Railroad car • Men or equipment fouling the track • Stop signal or • Derail or switch lined improperly Note the rule reads the same, almost. What it dosn’t say is you may not move over 20 mph…it leaves your speed up to you, you have to decide what speed is safe, up to the speed limit on that track or section. Your example of a potential head on wouldn’t happen except by accident. We don’t get a say in which rules we break...if ordered to violate a rule, we do so under protest...and if we were ordered to violate a rule we know would endanger someone, anyone, we don’t do it. The FRA is charged with enforcing the laws, that being the legislation enacted by the government. It is also charge with enforcing the rules (GCOR) that the railroads write to govern themselves. It makes recommendations about those rules, but does not write them, it is strictly an enforcement agency. I think what has you a little confused is that there are several different types of rules... Operating rules, that control how trains are handled, (break them if you want to get fired) Safety rules that protect men and equipment. And the rules negotiated under the local labor contract, (often the carrier tries to get around these to save time and money) Your example would be a violation of the operating rules, and wouldn’t happen except under very weird circumstances. Each and every operating rule is tied to, or includes another operating rule; they are interlocked, in a manner of speaking. To get to the point where a train is shoving past a red signal, and another train is approaching on the same track in the same block would require several people to break so many different operating rules al at once. You couldn’t shove past the signal unless ordered to by a dispatcher, who could not give you permission to do so if the block was occupied, because of the way they have to operate the system, which has many, many checks and balances. The rules we were talking about being broken were, for the most part, labor rules, although the 12 hour rule is a federal law. And, either way it is interpreted, the bottom line is after 12 hours, that train isn’t going to move, regardless if the crew ties handbrakes or not, they will not move the train. What is being argued is a point of what constitutes service to the carrier not moving a train... Here is a on line copy of the GCOR http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/rulebook/toc.html Read it some, and note it is broken down into several types of "rules" Enjoy, 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:21 PM Dear Ed, Thanks for clearing that up for me. What is "Doubling the air on more than one double?" Sincerely and gratefully, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 8:36 PM Daniel, Draging a track out, and backing onto another track, making the coupling, and cutting in the air, (lacing up the hoses and opening the anglecock)then knocking off the hand brakes.. A double over is coupling up the two tracks, and each time after that is another "double over". You keep "doubling over" till you have all you tracks assembled into your train. Also refered to a folding it up or folding it over, folding one track onto another. Not all yards are long enough to put all the cars for a train in one track, or have dedicated departure tracks, so you set them side by side(if your lucky!) and then, when the train is ready to depart, you fold 'em up one by one till your train is assembled, then get your air test and go.... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Two months as a train dispatcher taught me that EMS dispatching is nothing like train dispatching. I never even heard the terms like Hawged crew, dead-head, pigs, etc. until I started working at the railroad. I have read this post with much interest because understanding the rules of service is still not easy for me. And then someone throws in a new term "lady baiting. " Is this one of those moments when I should just remark, like I did during one of my locomotive rideouts and having read the walls in the bathroom at the crew station, "... interesting use of language." Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:36 PM Didn't you ever fish with the boat moving?(trolling)Same thing,except for ,you're trolling for some temporary companionship of the opposite sex.LOL Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:30 PM [:I] Oh. Thanks for the explanation. I learn something new everyday. lol Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:00 PM MBKCS, And that works both ways![:D] Foureasy, no, believe it or not, there is more room, front seat and back seat than a Lincoln Town Car... And its a lot faster! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:31 AM Ed,i went to your site,nice work there guy.Do you carve the watch cases also. Whats your mpg with the hemi? Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:05 PM Thanks, No, no carving onthe cases, yet. That site will go away in a few days...we are building a bigger one, more detail. And the Hemi is a MDS engine, multi displacment system. At freeway speeds, or when ever the onborad computer senses that the throttle plate is not moving outside certain settings, it drops four cylinders out, by locking the valves and shutting off the injectors. At idle, only four running. It gets 24 to 28 mpg highway, and 15 to 19 city, depending on how much you keep your foot out of it! Almost evrything on the car is controled by the computer, it dosnt even have a throttle cable, the computer reads the pedal position, and opens the throttle plate and adjust injector pressure accordingly. This thing will tell you when the battries in you key chain alarm fob are getting weak! It is Mercedes E class chassis parts with a Dodge green house, a Dodge engine, Mercedes tranny and three part rear end. And I can get more stuff in the back, than we can get in my wifes Durango. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply arbfbe Member sinceFebruary 2002 910 posts Posted by arbfbe on Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:03 AM Back in the days of the 16 hr Hours of Service Law, deadheading was considered by the FRA to be "rest" time. So you could work to the away from home terminal, get called upon arrival to deadhead to the home terminal on a drag local that works 15 6o 16 hours to get home and then be placed back on duty upon arrival at the home terminal account your 16 hour deadhead time was "rest". It was pretty rare but if it was snowing in the mountains and all the other supplies of crews were used up it was your chance to go back to the other end of the road. The 14 hr Hours of Service changed all that in 1970 or 1971. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:03 PM Arfbe,were you speaking of deadheading in the cab or in a caboose?I can't recall the movie,Danny Glover and Kevin Costner were in ,was about snow trains with caboose mounted flange plows,great movie.Did you work in the Rockies?Which line?What position?Etc.I'm interested in all things past in railroading. Thks,jim Reply Edit ValleyX Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 1,103 posts Posted by ValleyX on Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:48 PM In my part of the midwest, that is what I've been told, as I've posted before. I've essentially worked the road most all of my railroad career and have been in a lot of different situations. You are correct in saying that working right up to the twelve isn't usually an issue but it does happen. I will run it by an FRA man again and see what he says but I do not wi***o pass on erroneous information regarding sitting on trains and securing them, etc. Art, I got in on the last of the sixteen hour days, I WOULDN'T want to go back to that again!!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:17 PM Originally posted by edblysard If you are ordered to violate a rule, say, couple up the air on more than one double over, the crew can timeslip the railroad, (claim a work rule violation) and get another days basic pay. A good rule book shark can, on a road crew, almost double your days pay. Again, a lot of this depends on your local contract. Ed Ed, I need to clarify something that you posted in your note. You mentioned rules a couple of times in reference to work (or contract) rules. For example, your note about buckling air on more than one double is a contract provision, not a part of the General Code of Operating Rules. Same with the way you mentioned "A good rule book shark." Just a note of clarification. Lane Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:58 PM Very true, Lane. From our general chairman, the local contracts can be more restrictive than the national contract, but never more permissive. The national might not make mention of the number of double overs, but your local contract can limit them... Quite a few railroaders, and non railroaders, seem to think that the GCOR and the other rule book, the one CSX, NS and other east coast roads use, are laws... They are not, although some parts of the rules do use federal laws as their basis... Rules are not laws, but all the laws are in the rules. But the rules are nothing more that industry written guidelines. Your national contract follows and incorporates these rules into its system, and provides a way for the employees to "fine" a carrier if that carrier breaks any of these rules, via time slips... I don’t hold myself out as an expert on any aspect of railroading, rules compliance especially! So, the only "advice" I would ever offer anyone in a situation they don’t understand completely is the "first rule of railroading"..CYA, or "Cover your ***". If you’re not sure about something you are ordered to do, then make sure, if you decide to comply with the order, that you do so under protest, and document everything! If you are consistently order to break a rule, remember, the FRA is only a call away. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 10:20 AM Dear railroaders: As a railfan, this business about voluntarily braking rules is starting to make me a little worried. From your examples, it seems to be usually harmless. But say you're at the point of a train of chlorine-laden tank cars, and the dispatcher tells you to pass an absolute red signal at track speed when you can see another train coming your way. Doing so under protest won't do much good when all four crewmen are dead and there is a multi-million dollar toxic spill. Also, how would the FRA have authority in matters of rules-but-not-laws infractions? I had always thought railroads took a more "by the book" approach than you have presented here. And by the way, what is "doubling the air on more than one double"? Sincerely, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 2:14 PM Daniel, The rules don’t tell you what to do, they tell you what not to do. Example, a rule states you can not stop your train closer than 500 feet from the fouling point of a main track. It does not say you have to stop 500 feet away, all it says is you can’t stop closer than 500 feet. If you want to, you can stop 550 feet, or 600 feet away, but not closer than 500 feet. GCOR calls restricted speed... 6.27 Movement at Restricted Speed When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Train Engine Railroad car Men or equipment fouling the track Stop signal Or Derail or switch lined improperly The crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and not exceed 20 MPH. Comply with these requirements until the leading wheels reach a point where movement at restricted speed is no longer required It does not say restricted speed is 20 mph...It says not to exceed 20mph. 6.28 Movement on Other than Main Track Except when moving on a main track or on a track where a block system is in effect, trains or engines must move at a speed that allows them to stop within half the range of vision short of: • Train • Engine • Railroad car • Men or equipment fouling the track • Stop signal or • Derail or switch lined improperly Note the rule reads the same, almost. What it dosn’t say is you may not move over 20 mph…it leaves your speed up to you, you have to decide what speed is safe, up to the speed limit on that track or section. Your example of a potential head on wouldn’t happen except by accident. We don’t get a say in which rules we break...if ordered to violate a rule, we do so under protest...and if we were ordered to violate a rule we know would endanger someone, anyone, we don’t do it. The FRA is charged with enforcing the laws, that being the legislation enacted by the government. It is also charge with enforcing the rules (GCOR) that the railroads write to govern themselves. It makes recommendations about those rules, but does not write them, it is strictly an enforcement agency. I think what has you a little confused is that there are several different types of rules... Operating rules, that control how trains are handled, (break them if you want to get fired) Safety rules that protect men and equipment. And the rules negotiated under the local labor contract, (often the carrier tries to get around these to save time and money) Your example would be a violation of the operating rules, and wouldn’t happen except under very weird circumstances. Each and every operating rule is tied to, or includes another operating rule; they are interlocked, in a manner of speaking. To get to the point where a train is shoving past a red signal, and another train is approaching on the same track in the same block would require several people to break so many different operating rules al at once. You couldn’t shove past the signal unless ordered to by a dispatcher, who could not give you permission to do so if the block was occupied, because of the way they have to operate the system, which has many, many checks and balances. The rules we were talking about being broken were, for the most part, labor rules, although the 12 hour rule is a federal law. And, either way it is interpreted, the bottom line is after 12 hours, that train isn’t going to move, regardless if the crew ties handbrakes or not, they will not move the train. What is being argued is a point of what constitutes service to the carrier not moving a train... Here is a on line copy of the GCOR http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/rulebook/toc.html Read it some, and note it is broken down into several types of "rules" Enjoy, 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:21 PM Dear Ed, Thanks for clearing that up for me. What is "Doubling the air on more than one double?" Sincerely and gratefully, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 8:36 PM Daniel, Draging a track out, and backing onto another track, making the coupling, and cutting in the air, (lacing up the hoses and opening the anglecock)then knocking off the hand brakes.. A double over is coupling up the two tracks, and each time after that is another "double over". You keep "doubling over" till you have all you tracks assembled into your train. Also refered to a folding it up or folding it over, folding one track onto another. Not all yards are long enough to put all the cars for a train in one track, or have dedicated departure tracks, so you set them side by side(if your lucky!) and then, when the train is ready to depart, you fold 'em up one by one till your train is assembled, then get your air test and go.... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by edblysard If you are ordered to violate a rule, say, couple up the air on more than one double over, the crew can timeslip the railroad, (claim a work rule violation) and get another days basic pay. A good rule book shark can, on a road crew, almost double your days pay. Again, a lot of this depends on your local contract. Ed Ed, I need to clarify something that you posted in your note. You mentioned rules a couple of times in reference to work (or contract) rules. For example, your note about buckling air on more than one double is a contract provision, not a part of the General Code of Operating Rules. Same with the way you mentioned "A good rule book shark." Just a note of clarification. Lane Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:58 PM Very true, Lane. From our general chairman, the local contracts can be more restrictive than the national contract, but never more permissive. The national might not make mention of the number of double overs, but your local contract can limit them... Quite a few railroaders, and non railroaders, seem to think that the GCOR and the other rule book, the one CSX, NS and other east coast roads use, are laws... They are not, although some parts of the rules do use federal laws as their basis... Rules are not laws, but all the laws are in the rules. But the rules are nothing more that industry written guidelines. Your national contract follows and incorporates these rules into its system, and provides a way for the employees to "fine" a carrier if that carrier breaks any of these rules, via time slips... I don’t hold myself out as an expert on any aspect of railroading, rules compliance especially! So, the only "advice" I would ever offer anyone in a situation they don’t understand completely is the "first rule of railroading"..CYA, or "Cover your ***". If you’re not sure about something you are ordered to do, then make sure, if you decide to comply with the order, that you do so under protest, and document everything! If you are consistently order to break a rule, remember, the FRA is only a call away. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 10:20 AM Dear railroaders: As a railfan, this business about voluntarily braking rules is starting to make me a little worried. From your examples, it seems to be usually harmless. But say you're at the point of a train of chlorine-laden tank cars, and the dispatcher tells you to pass an absolute red signal at track speed when you can see another train coming your way. Doing so under protest won't do much good when all four crewmen are dead and there is a multi-million dollar toxic spill. Also, how would the FRA have authority in matters of rules-but-not-laws infractions? I had always thought railroads took a more "by the book" approach than you have presented here. And by the way, what is "doubling the air on more than one double"? Sincerely, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 2:14 PM Daniel, The rules don’t tell you what to do, they tell you what not to do. Example, a rule states you can not stop your train closer than 500 feet from the fouling point of a main track. It does not say you have to stop 500 feet away, all it says is you can’t stop closer than 500 feet. If you want to, you can stop 550 feet, or 600 feet away, but not closer than 500 feet. GCOR calls restricted speed... 6.27 Movement at Restricted Speed When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Train Engine Railroad car Men or equipment fouling the track Stop signal Or Derail or switch lined improperly The crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and not exceed 20 MPH. Comply with these requirements until the leading wheels reach a point where movement at restricted speed is no longer required It does not say restricted speed is 20 mph...It says not to exceed 20mph. 6.28 Movement on Other than Main Track Except when moving on a main track or on a track where a block system is in effect, trains or engines must move at a speed that allows them to stop within half the range of vision short of: • Train • Engine • Railroad car • Men or equipment fouling the track • Stop signal or • Derail or switch lined improperly Note the rule reads the same, almost. What it dosn’t say is you may not move over 20 mph…it leaves your speed up to you, you have to decide what speed is safe, up to the speed limit on that track or section. Your example of a potential head on wouldn’t happen except by accident. We don’t get a say in which rules we break...if ordered to violate a rule, we do so under protest...and if we were ordered to violate a rule we know would endanger someone, anyone, we don’t do it. The FRA is charged with enforcing the laws, that being the legislation enacted by the government. It is also charge with enforcing the rules (GCOR) that the railroads write to govern themselves. It makes recommendations about those rules, but does not write them, it is strictly an enforcement agency. I think what has you a little confused is that there are several different types of rules... Operating rules, that control how trains are handled, (break them if you want to get fired) Safety rules that protect men and equipment. And the rules negotiated under the local labor contract, (often the carrier tries to get around these to save time and money) Your example would be a violation of the operating rules, and wouldn’t happen except under very weird circumstances. Each and every operating rule is tied to, or includes another operating rule; they are interlocked, in a manner of speaking. To get to the point where a train is shoving past a red signal, and another train is approaching on the same track in the same block would require several people to break so many different operating rules al at once. You couldn’t shove past the signal unless ordered to by a dispatcher, who could not give you permission to do so if the block was occupied, because of the way they have to operate the system, which has many, many checks and balances. The rules we were talking about being broken were, for the most part, labor rules, although the 12 hour rule is a federal law. And, either way it is interpreted, the bottom line is after 12 hours, that train isn’t going to move, regardless if the crew ties handbrakes or not, they will not move the train. What is being argued is a point of what constitutes service to the carrier not moving a train... Here is a on line copy of the GCOR http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/rulebook/toc.html Read it some, and note it is broken down into several types of "rules" Enjoy, 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:21 PM Dear Ed, Thanks for clearing that up for me. What is "Doubling the air on more than one double?" Sincerely and gratefully, Daniel Parks Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, May 1, 2005 8:36 PM Daniel, Draging a track out, and backing onto another track, making the coupling, and cutting in the air, (lacing up the hoses and opening the anglecock)then knocking off the hand brakes.. A double over is coupling up the two tracks, and each time after that is another "double over". You keep "doubling over" till you have all you tracks assembled into your train. Also refered to a folding it up or folding it over, folding one track onto another. Not all yards are long enough to put all the cars for a train in one track, or have dedicated departure tracks, so you set them side by side(if your lucky!) and then, when the train is ready to depart, you fold 'em up one by one till your train is assembled, then get your air test and go.... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.