Does anyone have more info or pictures? I think this was a northward empty coal train, but I'm not sure.
It was a southbound loaded BNSF coal train with one fatality.
https://www.koaa.com/news/covering-colorado/interstate-25-closed-in-both-directions-north-of-purcell-blvd-due-to-crash-involving-train
Recent photos indicate the lead locomotives had cleared the overpass when the derailment occurred; if so, they must be in the Pueblo yard about ten miles south.
Did the train take the bridge out, or did the bridge fail first?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Happened very quick, I think. The fatality is likely to be that tractor-trailer's driver, from the cab being either under part of the bridge or the coal falling over it.
tree68 Did the train take the bridge out, or did the bridge fail first?
That was a question I had as well looking at the pictures. The span over the SB lanes appears to be intact, while the NB lanes is the disaster. The fatality is reported to be the truck driver who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The main detour is reported to be US-50 west to COLO-115 at Penrose for all NB traffic and heavy SB traffic and another SB detour for passenger cars. Gonna be fun for a few days.
Overmod Happened very quick, I think. The fatality is likely to be that tractor-trailer's driver, from the cab being either under part of the bridge or the coal falling over it.
That was who the news reports said it was.
I see a switch on the NE side.
rdamonI see a switch on the NE side.
Which 'could' have affected a train going bottom to top. Top to bottom movement would have been trailing through the switch.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Thinking they may have already been a wheelset on the ground.
I know, I know ... wait for the NTSB ...
One thing we have not considered: did the truck someway strike the bridge causing it to shift. Seems unlikely but a possibility.
Very clear to me that the bridge structure fell over on the truck. That bridge is supported on high, slab abutments on either end, with the shoes far above the visible roof height of the van. The cab would not have been higher.
In any case, it's the far corner of the bridge deck that dropped first, and it's come to rest on the trailer nose and, possibly, part of the tractor. Much more of the combination would have gone through had the truck somehow lifted up and disengaged that far corner.
Note no collision damage to the near bridge lower member at all, and no striking deformation I can see in the underpanels that would indicate sufficient contact to lift and displace the bridge.
diningcar One thing we have not considered: did the truck someway strike the bridge causing it to shift. Seems unlikely but a possibility.
I would opine that since it's an Interstate, an apparently standard box trailer would not have had an issue with the bridge. I don't see any "low clearance" markings on the bridge, and my uncalibrated eyeball says the truck would have cleared with no problem. I suspect it's a "wrong place, wrong time" thing.
As noted before, the possibility of the bridge collapsing under the train exists, but the stronger possibility is that the derailed cars caused the bridge to fail. Why the cars derailed remains to be seen following the investigation.
The bing map shows the tracks w/o the train.
There are no guard rails on the tracks on the bridge over the interstate.
https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=0303e536-13b0-4b72-ba19-d8f308f03a22&cp=38.388601~-104.619608&lvl=19.989048&style=h&pi=0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
NTSB on scene. Truck driver was from California.
It appears that everything is on the table at this point, including the possibility that the truck might have caused the bridge to fail - that from the Pueblo County Sheriff's Office spokesperson.
https://gazette.com/news/truck-driver-killed-in-train-derailment-near-pueblo-identified-stretch-of-i-25-closed-indefinitely/article_f386305a-6bae-11ee-bc44-97f19a31bc45.html
Just announced: Broken rail caused the derailment. Details will follow.
diningcarJust announced: Broken rail caused the derailment. Details will follow.
When I was working - the number of times a train in signaled territory would leave a track circuit lit after it had departed the track segment and when the anomaly was investigated by signals/MofW and was found to be a Broken Rail. Such a occurrence is proof that the rail broke under traffic of the train. There but for the grace of God was a derailment that didn't happen.
To make things even more complicated, I've read reports that the bridge is owned by the state, not the BNSF. This should keep some lawyers busy for a while.
Yes, the Santa Fe track from Pueblo to Denver was in this location when the State wanted to build in a new location and so they "contracted" with Santa Fe for an underpass and paid Santa Fe for its temporary "shoofly" during the overpass construction. This was in 1956-1958 approximately.
Ed Burns gave me a BNSF had years ago, which I treasured and wore frequently. It has been stolen from me, and I suspect who stole but have no proof. Hmmmn..... Nobody I see regularly, and member of a very very different community. Another Yeshiva student has a similar suspician and requested our security guard not to allow him entrance again. I'll really miss that hat when winter arrives.
No, not an Arab
It seems a bit strange to me that such a derailment would cause the bridge to collapse. I mean, that's not impossible by any means - there are some pretty powerful forces involved there. But it still strikes me as strange.
I would be more likely to believe that the bridge itself failed first and resulted in a derailment rather than the other way around.
However, as a couple of other posters have stated, we'll just have to wait for the NTSB's assessment. That could take a while.
Fred M Cain It seems a bit strange to me that such a derailment would cause the bridge to collapse. I mean, that's not impossible by any means - there are some pretty powerful forces involved there. But it still strikes me as strange. I would be more likely to believe that the bridge itself failed first and resulted in a derailment rather than the other way around. However, as a couple of other posters have stated, we'll just have to wait for the NTSB's assessment. That could take a while.
Dave:
Sorry to hear about the cap. Please private e-mail me as you have my e mail.
Ed Burns
Colorado news is that the southward lanes are open on 10-18.
Both lanes of I-25 were open Thursday afternoon.
BNSF reports that the track had been inspected one day prior to the derailment. Further reports about the broken rail and any other factors will have to wait for the government analysis.
Linmked fromDENVER POST: @https://www.denverpost.com/2023/10/19/i25-reopens-train-derailment-bnsf-pueblo-colorado/
Apparently the article froim TRAINS Newswire, is no longer available. Both pieced attributed t he derailment and spilage of coal on to the I-25 lanes, to a broken rail. The truck driver was killed when the bridge collapsed and was droppoed onto his vehicle.
Since the I-25 was constructed in the 1960's, it kkkpossible to assume that the rail bridges were built to get the railroad over previously, existing highways(?). My hhuess woukld be that reasponsibility lforrepair and replacement of the downed bridghe will be subject to coiurt actions (?) and or, litigations.
The death of the truck driver will most likely, suffer similar slings of litigation (?). That is the shameful part of this situation.
Highway 85 was the route between Pueblo and Denver in 1955. The State was getting prepared for I-25 and had an agreement with Santa Fe to build this structure. Santa Fe had to re-route around the construction site with a Shoo-Fly in 1956-57. I do not know the details, but my associates did the engineering for Santa Fe.
Santa Fe designed and built the bridge. State paid for it. (per order of the PUC) Railroad responsible for track maintenance only. It is the state's bridge.
Colorado Highway 1 (US-85) followed a similar route prior to 1957. State built a smaller underpass in 1952 for the two lane highway that was US-85 (parts of that old road are still out there.) State built a shoo-fly for ATSF and US-85 so that the new twin span [2x87']/ skewed structure could be built. After the new twin span was ready, the old span was ripped out and everything was put back on the original alignment.
State is off the hook on this one. BNSF rail broke, derailing a BNSF train that in turn took out the bridge. BNSF eats this one.
The fun will be the discussion about inside steel guardrails (ISG's) that were there before the merger and disappeared somewhere after. (DC and I both can recall the obsession of ATSF trying to protect through plate girder bridges in the '80's (knee bracing on those rascals are really vulnerable)) The decision to allow removal of the ISG's by BNSF will be an interesting discussion.
The BNSF structures department has a tiger by the tail. Spare skew 87 ft BD-Thru Plate Girder bridges don't exactly grow on trees.
Will be curious to see the exact relationship between the broken rail and the bridge. Would the original placement of the ISG even been good enough to save the bridge?
Local newsworkers are making some pretty wild claims (awful reporting) and stirring-up plenty of needless hysteria. CDOT has proven itself inept again in a railroad and administrative sense. ATSF/BNSF has issues here, but at least they were doing steel bridge inspections independent of CDOT even though it was not their bridge. Wakeup call for all involved.
Walked over that bridge too many times to count in the 1980's and early 1990's.
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