Push Pull Commuter trains

[BaltACD]

Another collision involving a push-pull commuter operation, operating in push mode.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1997/RAR9702.htm

CSX at Georgetown Jct, MD (Silver Srpings) Feb 16, 1996.

[Supermicha]

Push Pull trains are as safe as normal locomotive hauled i think. German Railroad operates bi-level commuter trains with 6 or seven cars that run with 160 kph, we have also some Intercity push pull trains, there max speed is 200 kph and the have 10 and more cars...
The ICE2 train has also a cab car on one side and can run 250 kph...

And we had not more accidents than with normal trains...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....What am I missing.....Didn't it used to be against operations {regulations}, to push a passenger train....and wasn't that the practice before that was a regulation....Simply pushing several passenger cars with the engineer in the pushing engine...?? And then when push / pull operation came along were regulations changed to permit that to happen.....I can remember wondering how that was being done legally....
I realize passenger trains were pushed upgrade with an engine{s}, on front too such as up around Horseshoe, etc....but I'm speaking of the condition I mention above.

I don't recal any regulations that prohibite the pushing of passenger trains. In fact at St Louis Union Station, arriving passenger trains were all shoved into the depot. The proceedure required the brakeman to operate a "tail hose" or "monkey tail" to acctuate the air brake functions. The conductor would also be present on the hind end to oversee this. There was a brake test proceedure as well. The brakeman would signal 3 on the air signal. Then another 3, andthe back up would commence. This was also done on some branch lines.

Mitch

[Modelcar]

...Appreciate the comments of whether it was legal or not to push a passenger train...but I'm sure remembering something from some years back about the subject. I haven't tried to hunt down any reg. on it yet but maybe I will see what I can find.
Yes, I understand in push / pull the operator is right at the front window and very vulnerable when exposed to an impending head on crash....And in my opinion has a much better chance if in an engine with a "nose" protuding, etc....

[Brydle]

An experiment
If you have a model railroad. First pull a string of cars from the head end and see how easy they follow.
Then pu***he same cars from the rear. end..
You may find that pushing is like trying to shove a piece of string forward. The forces are very different, In pushing, each car wants to go in the opposite direction.
The potential for derailing is much greater in push mode than in pull mode.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brydle

An experiment
If you have a model railroad. First pull a string of cars from the head end and see how easy they follow.
Then pu***he same cars from the rear. end..
You may find that pushing is like trying to shove a piece of string forward. The forces are very different, In pushing, each car wants to go in the opposite direction.
The potential for derailing is much greater in push mode than in pull mode.

News fla***o model railroader observation: (1) The real world is not that flat, (2) the loading & distribution (and thus the physics) are different and (3) the real world is not in a controlled environment. All of these absolute answers on the push-pull question do not quite reflect reality. Let the experts (FRA/ NTSB rank & file...not the appointed political heads) look at it in real world perspective.[:(][:(][:(]

[Anonymous]

This thread reminded me about the suicide wreck in the UK several months ago where the car (a Land Rover I think- about the size of the Jeep) was pushed down the track a short distance jamming into a set of points (as they call turnouts over there) and derailed the lead locomotive, a 125 diesel unit if I recall. Same result as LA, but with a loco in the lead..

[trainboyH16-44]

I was just talking to a friend about this half an hour ago. The cab cars are far too light, and they should be ballasted with a few tons of metal, which is a lot more efficient than having a loco on both ends, or turning it at terminals.
My condolances to the families and friends of the people who were killed in this terrible crash[:(]
What idiot decided to walk, instead of driving away.[banghead][banghead][banghead][V]