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Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
QUOTE: Originally posted by Brydle An experiment If you have a model railroad. First pull a string of cars from the head end and see how easy they follow. Then pu***he same cars from the rear. end.. You may find that pushing is like trying to shove a piece of string forward. The forces are very different, In pushing, each car wants to go in the opposite direction. The potential for derailing is much greater in push mode than in pull mode.
Quentin
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....What am I missing.....Didn't it used to be against operations {regulations}, to push a passenger train....and wasn't that the practice before that was a regulation....Simply pushing several passenger cars with the engineer in the pushing engine...?? And then when push / pull operation came along were regulations changed to permit that to happen.....I can remember wondering how that was being done legally.... I realize passenger trains were pushed upgrade with an engine{s}, on front too such as up around Horseshoe, etc....but I'm speaking of the condition I mention above.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
QUOTE: I have to say that I agree that grade separations are the ideal solution as far as the railroads are concerned but understand that while cost would be a deterrent for commuter roads such as Metrolink and Metra there are a lot of other factors involved here. I'll use Metra to illustrate. One example is the fact tha Metra owns only an incredibly small percentage of the track on which they run. The vast majority of their system comes from trackage agreements with Class 1 railroads, primarily UP and BNSF. Metra couldn't just decide to overhaul the track and start in on a grade separation project on their own. They would have to approach the RR which owns the track and convince them that it needs to be done. In fact, while not exactly a grade seeparation Metra has recently worked closely with UP to install rows of thorn bushes native to the area as a method to deter trespassers. It should be low cost to both companies to maintain and should help reduce the problem. If it works it is expected that both Metra and the Class 1's will implement the idea throughout the Chicago network. Not that it would have helped in the Metrolink accident. Another issue that the railroads face in recofiguring for grade separations is the multitude of cities, towns and villages that these types of projects would impact. I can speak from firsthand knowledge that many of the businesses on the UP-NW line rely on the fact that they are visible to the rail commuters. My guess is that the business owners would be resistant to the concept.
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill I'm beginning to wonder why I bother posting anything.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz A few comments from an engineer that operated cabcar equipped suburban trains for twenty years (and bear in mind that the specs on any new equipment may be different from what I ran on the CNW): The pilot of a cabcar is designed completely different than that of a locomotive. The photo tree68 posted does not show enough detail, as the pilot is in shadow, but the configuration is such that a vehicle (or whatever) that is struck directly broadside can easily get jammed between the main deck and the pilot. When you hit a vehicle (as I have done many times) the first thing you look for is the struck object off to the side of the tracks. If you see it, you can breathe a little easier while the train is stopping, knowing that you will not derail. One time the vehicle my train struck DID get caught, and it was an anxious few seconds until the train finally stopped (from 70mph). The pilot itself is much smaller than the pilot (plow) on freight locomotives. It is held in place by support posts from the car body. It is suffiecient to deflect rocks and refrigerators and other objects places on the tracks, but when a vehicle is involved, I would much prefer to have a locomotive-type plow. The problem is that the cabcars must also be designed so they can couple onto other coaches, even from the cab end. So a large, locomotive-style pilot is not really possible. I never liked operating from a cabcar. You have absolutely no room to move. The cab itself is divided into two smaller 'cabs', maybe three feet wide on each side, and maybe five feet from front window to the back wall of the cab, and is seperated by the 'hump' of the center aisle below, which protrudes halfway up into the cab. On the CNW, the fireman (when they had them) or the conductor (when available) would sit on the other side. We could see each other, but could not cross to the other side, due to the amount of safety equipment bolted on the cab walls. The door behind the engineer that separates the cab from the passengers is about 18" wide and about 5' tall, and there are passenger seats directly behind the wall. So even if you saw an impending wreck, by the time you turned around, got the door unlocked and opened, turned your body sideways to exit, you would still have to climb over (or through) the commuters sitting right behind you. And when they see you bailing out, you can bet they will also be trying to exit at the same time. In other words, there is simply no where for the engineer to go to escape.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie Help! Can I get a simple explanation of push-pull? Mookie
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR If fragments of the Jeep got caught underneath the train and were pushed or dragged into the switch, a derailment would have occurred regardless of whether it was a 60-ton cab car or a 160-ton locomotive. Having said that, I suspect that there's opportunity for some improvement in the crashworthiness of cab cars, or in some sort of pilot to deflect struck objects. I suspect that the Jeep would have been impacted differently with the locomotive hitting it, and possibly knocked clear, in which case the derailment may not have happened. But eliminate or restrict the cab car concept? Don't hold your breath--the efficiencies are far too great.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp It is premature to assume this. At least wait until you know the facts to make conclusions.
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
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