Trains.com

Another union rejects proposed contract

15860 views
196 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, December 10, 2022 8:35 PM

Euclid

 

 
Convicted One

 

 
Euclid
What I am talking about is saving the supply chain and economy.  Increasing railroad worker quality of life will have its cost, but it is an investment that will make both the supply chain and the economy more prosperous.  It will also make Ma and Pa Kettle more prosperous as well.  It’s a win-win.  You can’t wreck the railroads by allowing them to be plundered by PSR for the benefit of short sighted traders. 

 

But as a consumer ultimately paying the bill, or an employee just trying to do the best job they can...how can one distinguish between a "sainted" retiree stockholder, vs an opportunist institutional investor?  I don't get the priority some here seem to have defining one as "good" vs the other as "bad"...unless you just hate them all and expect god to sort them out.

 

I mean it appears as "tomayto" vs "tomahto" to me, in both instances you have entities  expecting an income while not contributing ACTUAL PHYSICAL GOAL-ORIENTED PRODUCTIVE work...and it is that expectation that is driving the reductions in the actual workforce, in accomodation of both.

Doesn't appear sustainable at prices consumers can support

 

 

 

I am not suggesting anything that requires a need to distinguish between good stockholders and bad stockholders.  It would be impractical and there is no need for it.  Both parties are beneficial to the companies.  The party that needs to be disciplined and adequately regulated is railroad management.  I thought everybody here agreed on that point since I have heard it a million times. 
 
When I say, “You can’t wreck the railroads by allowing them to be plundered by PSR for the benefit of short sighted traders,” I am not blaming the short sighted traders.  I am not using the term “short sighted” as an insult, but just as a way to define them for discussion. 
 
Management is free to hire and fire workers and close facilities, but these cuts can also affect the shippers if they reduce shipping capacity.  Railroad management is not free to let that happen. 
 
From the Federal Register:
 
Common Carrier Obligation of Railroads:
 
The common carrier obligation refers to the statutory duty of railroads to provide “transportation or service on reasonable request.” 49 U.S.C. 11101(a). A railroad may not refuse to provide service merely because to do so would be inconvenient or unprofitable.
 
Currently it is possible for railroad management to cut costs by reducing the workforce, but it is illegal for them to do so if it degrades service to the shippers beyond a certain point.  This is entirely within the interests of shippers and they have a law that requires that interest to be upheld.   If labor cuts degrade service to the point of violating the Common Carrier Obligation, shippers will require Government to intervene. 
 
So when I say, “You can’t wreck the railroads by allowing them to be plundered by PSR for the benefit of short sighted traders,” I am referring to railroad management that is doing the plundering.”  Maybe Congress should investigate them and their practices. 
 

The Staggers Act modified the application of Common Carrier concept to rails.

https://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation-tower/archive/2018/02/12/whither-the-common-carrier.aspx

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, December 10, 2022 8:59 PM

charlie hebdo

Upper management compensation is typically more in the form of stock options or warrants so they have a strong personal incentive to take actions, such as PSR,  to influnce stock prices.

 

I am sure there is plenty of motive for stockholders and management to do what they are doing.  If there were no limit on that, they might very well continue until shippers are on a waiting list or worse.  If that happens, the government will step in and do what is necessary to restore reliable shipper service.  if the Government is worried about a strike harming the economy, I am sure they will be worried if the railroads cut cost so deeply that they cannot service the market for rail transport.  

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, December 10, 2022 9:05 PM

Euclid
if the Government is worried about a strike harming the economy, I am sure they will be worried if the railroads cut cost so deeply that they cannot service the market for rail transport.  

Nobody remembers April?

https://youtu.be/Q0rk5tnrFqA

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, December 10, 2022 9:23 PM

zugmann

 

 
Euclid
if the Government is worried about a strike harming the economy, I am sure they will be worried if the railroads cut cost so deeply that they cannot service the market for rail transport.  

 

Nobody remembers April?

https://youtu.be/Q0rk5tnrFqA

 

What do you make of that?

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, December 10, 2022 9:24 PM

Euclid
What do you make of that?

 

Waiting for the sequel. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, December 10, 2022 9:43 PM

zugmann

 

 
Euclid
What do you make of that?

 

 

Waiting for the sequel. 

 

Well, they have not finished the job yet, but I think it is a sign of exactly what I am predicting.  We may not yet be at a tipping point.  We may never reach one if the economy recovers, the railroads are able to hire more people, working conditions ease, and the problem goes away.  Even if the problem gets worse, the government is not going to solve it with just one meeting.  But the one meeting shows the issue and where it is heading unless things change.  

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 2:00 PM

CSX revamps attendance policy as railroad unions push back on sick time

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/csx-tweaks-attendance-policy-railroad-unions-push-back-sick-time-2022-12-13/

"Under the new policy effective Jan. 1, CSX said on Tuesday it will no longer assess points when an employee calls in sick shortly before a scheduled workday with an illness for which they saw a doctor.

CSX's new attendance rules will be "non-disciplinary and non-punitive," the company said in an email to Reuters."

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 2:09 PM

rdamon
CSX revamps attendance policy as railroad unions push back on sick time

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/csx-tweaks-attendance-policy-railroad-unions-push-back-sick-time-2022-12-13/

"Under the new policy effective Jan. 1, CSX said on Tuesday it will no longer assess points when an employee calls in sick shortly before a scheduled workday with an illness for which they saw a doctor.

CSX's new attendance rules will be "non-disciplinary and non-punitive," the company said in an email to Reuters."

All weasel words for public consumption until I see and hear how it is working from my still working contacts.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 3:35 PM

UP now wants to offer sick days (See the newswire). 

 

Funny how the companies didn't want to even entertain the idea in contract talks, but as soon as there are rumblings about Pres. Biden possibly signing an executive order forcing sick days, now they want to rush into offering something.  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 7:42 PM
 

BaltACD

 

 
rdamon
CSX revamps attendance policy as railroad unions push back on sick time

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/csx-tweaks-attendance-policy-railroad-unions-push-back-sick-time-2022-12-13/

"Under the new policy effective Jan. 1, CSX said on Tuesday it will no longer assess points when an employee calls in sick shortly before a scheduled workday with an illness for which they saw a doctor.

CSX's new attendance rules will be "non-disciplinary and non-punitive," the company said in an email to Reuters."

 

All weasel words for public consumption until I see and hear how it is working from my still working contacts.

 

I don't know Balt. CSX's new president may be part of the reason behind this. I'm bullish on Joe Hinrichs. 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 11:03 PM

SD60MAC9500
 
BaltACD 
rdamon
CSX revamps attendance policy as railroad unions push back on sick time

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/csx-tweaks-attendance-policy-railroad-unions-push-back-sick-time-2022-12-13/

"Under the new policy effective Jan. 1, CSX said on Tuesday it will no longer assess points when an employee calls in sick shortly before a scheduled workday with an illness for which they saw a doctor.

CSX's new attendance rules will be "non-disciplinary and non-punitive," the company said in an email to Reuters." 

All weasel words for public consumption until I see and hear how it is working from my still working contacts. 

I don't know Balt. CSX's new president may be part of the reason behind this. I'm bullish on Joe Hinrichs. 

Listen but verify!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 15, 2022 3:20 AM

I'lm dissapointed in BNSF.  I expected them to be the first to reduce the problems inherent in an Operating-Railroader Career.   Or were they more benine to already? 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:02 AM

daveklepper
I'lm dissapointed in BNSF.  I expected them to be the first to reduce the problems inherent in an Operating-Railroader Career.   Or were they more benine to already? 

Senior managers that achieved their positions based upon a specific 'vision' for the compay do not easily give up that 'vision'.  Katie Farmer's vision for BNSF has been what she implemented - being named 'Railroader of the Year' by one of the trade rags, reinforces her belief that she has the correct vision.  Time will ultimately tell.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:20 AM

Do we know in specific detail what Katie Farmer's position on Hi-Vis is, or what her role in promoting and implementing it was?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:31 AM

Overmod
Do we know in specific detail what Katie Farmer's position on Hi-Vis is, or what her role in promoting and implementing it was?

That it happened when she is the 'Top Dog' is all that needs to be known.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, December 15, 2022 6:18 PM
 

Overmod

Do we know in specific detail what Katie Farmer's position on Hi-Vis is, or what her role in promoting and implementing it was?

 

 

Outside of the BoD nobody knows the details.. Though I can tell you she is a proponent of Hi-Viz..

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:25 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Overmod
Do we know in specific detail what Katie Farmer's position on Hi-Vis is, or what her role in promoting and implementing it was?

 

That it happened when she is the 'Top Dog' is all that needs to be known.

 

Sometime back, Mr B. said they needed to look at doing some aspects of PSR.  They did start doing some PSR related things, although they didn't and probably don't call it PSR. 

I think Ms. Farmer was brought in to take them further down the PSR route, the Hi-Vis policy being the most visible aspect of this.

Jeff

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy