jeffhergert... This corridor manager was told the trains wouldn't fit. That's when he said you need to think outside the box. I don't believe there was any place either train could "double over" to clear. Jeff
This corridor manager was told the trains wouldn't fit. That's when he said you need to think outside the box. I don't believe there was any place either train could "double over" to clear.
Jeff
One statement no Dispatcher ever wants to utter, "What do you mean you don't fit?" However, when you get a direct 'order' from a superior, all bets are off. To do other than what the Supervisor specifically instructed is 'Insubordination' and punisable. Malicious Compliance is following orders you know to be wrong, that is not punishable.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Malicious Compliance is following orders you know to be wrong, that is not punishable.
Actually, it is.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann BaltACD Malicious Compliance is following orders you know to be wrong, that is not punishable. Actually, it is.
Only time in my experience - President of the company's son, was Trainmaster at a location - Ordered a crew to make a 'flying switch' to get cars behind the engine, infront of the engine by having the cars go down a lead that had tank cars hooked up in a customers facility. Crewmen disagreed that that was the move to be made, but rather than face Insubordination charges they complied. There wasn't sufficient braking power in the cut of cars to stop them before they impacted the hooked up tank cars in the customer facility. President's son charged them with failure to control the movement.
I can't speak for the railroads, but the "I was just following orders!" excuse won't get you out of trouble at a military court-martial. You or the guy who gave them.
Flintlock76 BaltACD Malicious Compliance is following orders you know to be wrong, that is not punishable. I can't speak for the railroads, but the "I was just following orders!" excuse won't get you out of trouble at a military court-martial. You or the guy who gave them.
ie. Get executed by the Officer that gave the illegal order for not complying with the order. Or get executed by the Court Martial for doing as ordered. A genuine lose-lose situation.
BaltACD Get executed by the Officer that gave the illegal order for not complying with the order.
Maybe in the SS, but they've been out of business for years.
The FRA's position has been if a company officer orders you to do something, even if in violation of regulations, to follow the orders given. The FRA can't get an insubordination charge overturned, but they can fine the railroad for any violations steming from that order. Always get time and initials.
For some things, we now have a "Good Faith Challenge" process. The only problem is that the ultimate arbitraitor is a higher up company officer. Unless the officer issuing the questionable order is not popular with his/her superiors, I have my doubts that the original officer will be overruled.
49 CFR § 218.97 - Good faith challenge procedures. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
Reading the actual law, it seems like it could cover more than what our rule book says it covers. Interpretation is everything.
PS. Regarding Malicious Compliance. Some years back, an arbitraitor upheld discipline for a Norfolk Southern engineer. He had been disciplined for going too slow while moving at restricted speed.
jeffhergertThe FRA's position has been if a company officer orders you to do something, even if in violation of regulations, to follow the orders given.
That might go a long way to explain those N-S derailments where they put the light cars up front by the power and the heavy cars at the rear.
I learned playing with Lionels years ago that's not a good idea. HO guys would say the same.
Hey I still play with Lionels and won't do that.
BaltACDAs in anything - cream rises to the top.
Overmod BaltACD As in anything - cream rises to the top. And so does scum.
BaltACD As in anything - cream rises to the top.
And so does scum.
If you are dealing with septic tanks - yes.
This one is from my hubby directly. He was driving for a now bought out carrier in Iowa in 98. The carrier was named Florilli out of West Liberty IA. He was in the yard with an OOS truck it had been red tagged by the shop itself for massive issues namely a massive exhaust leak and fuel and oil leaks. He was also out of hours in his logbook sitting on 70 in his 8 days.
Well that day he was there here comes the FMCSA doing a no notice audit of the company. His dispatcher screamed for him to get off the yard and get to Chicago ASAP. Hubby rightfully refused saying no hours and OOS truck. Dispatcher said move it or I will starve you out of here. Now my hubby is standing in the shop with a Federal inspector behind him and State DOT officer behind him both going what is this carrier trying to hide from us. They go we are both inspecting his truck before he does ANYTHING sir. State DOT officer does a complete inspection tells the Federal officer that if they try to order him off again there were 20 different OOS violations on this truck. Federal inspector is inside the cab looking at my hubby's logbook and then goes since you have been threatened by your dispatch anything you tell us is protected by the whistleblower act. Anything you want to show us. Hubby goes I am out of here in less than a month so yep. Hands her the satalite system goes anything in caps is from the carrier anything I sent is in lower case. She sees message after message from the dispatcher ordering him to drive over the HOS by requiring 700+ mile days in a 68 MPH truck. She's like thank you sir.
The dispatcher was not fired instead PROMOTED why well the Bosses daughter could not marry an unemployed dispatcher so they made him VP of Operations. Yep your reading that right they made the man that cost the carrier 10 years of almost non stop DOT harrassment the VP of Operations because he knocked up the Bosses Daughter. Talk about failing upwards at a carrier.
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