dakotafred Don't forget, all, in New York state, as reported by Trains Newswire, some of these benign bikers are trying to shut down an operating tourist line in favor of a trail.
Don't forget, all, in New York state, as reported by Trains Newswire, some of these benign bikers are trying to shut down an operating tourist line in favor of a trail.
As MC notes, this one has nothing to with the traditional rails-to-trails. It's not even the hikers, bikers, and snowmobilers. It's a bunch of rich folks who want everyone out of their woods. The rails have to come up before they can work on getting everyone else out.
You'll probably never see a trail there. That's not their true goal.
To my knowledge, the national rails-to-trails organization has effectively disavowed the efforts in the Adirondacks.
There are a number of abandoned rail routes in this area - some have been gone since at least the 1960's, their economic viability long since having vanished. Two I can think of within 15 miles of me had as their rationale transloading for ships on the St Lawrence River - a practice that made sense in the 1800's, but doesn't even come close now.
One of those lines is now an ATV trail. The other has a regional water line now installed under it.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
MiningmanNow I have seen some pretty silly and ridiculous comments here and there, not too often, but this one is just plain idiotic, empty headed, even spiteful and hateful. What a load of nonsense. You posted this on Jan 3rd, and there is yet a whole year to go, but it would take some kind of super moronic effort on someone's part to top this.
Zug is one of the most level-headed posters on this forum, and with his railroad experience he gives us a voice with a knowledge base. So as far as "loads of nonsense", perhaps some introspection is in order.
zardoz...you very conveniently left out what he said which is as follows:
"Railfans putting fingers in their ears and stamping the ground crying how there should be choo-choos on those worthless tracks is not going to win any wide spread support."'
I do not need any introspection on that load of crap.
Zug is right, though. The same sort of behavior happened with the general public, political leaders, etc. when Penn Central's trustees proposed abandonment of money-losing branches and even secondary mains in the early 1970's.
Miningman zardoz...you very conveniently left out what he said which is as follows: "Railfans putting fingers in their ears and stamping the ground crying how there should be choo-choos on those worthless tracks is not going to win any wide spread support."' I do not need any introspection on that load of crap.
It is not a load of crap, it is the truth. It is something that some railfans post way to often on the interwebs.
An "expensive model collector"
zardoz Miningman Now I have seen some pretty silly and ridiculous comments here and there, not too often, but this one is just plain idiotic, empty headed, even spiteful and hateful. What a load of nonsense. You posted this on Jan 3rd, and there is yet a whole year to go, but it would take some kind of super moronic effort on someone's part to top this. Gee, who peed in your coffee? Zug is one of the most level-headed posters on this forum, and with his railroad experience he gives us a voice with a knowledge base. So as far as "loads of nonsense", perhaps some introspection is in order.
Miningman Now I have seen some pretty silly and ridiculous comments here and there, not too often, but this one is just plain idiotic, empty headed, even spiteful and hateful. What a load of nonsense. You posted this on Jan 3rd, and there is yet a whole year to go, but it would take some kind of super moronic effort on someone's part to top this.
Gee, who peed in your coffee?
I'll second that. Zug makes creative, yet objective analyses, sometimes using colorful language. He knows what he's talking about and does not have a pre-conceived agenda.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
n012944It is not a load of crap, it is the truth. It is something that some railfans post way to often on the interwebs.
Alas, it's been part of the strategy of the "trail advocates" in NY as well... The "rail fans" want to have a railroad to play with...
There's several examples here in the upper Midwest where lines that SHOULD have been saved but were taken out but one that comes to my mind here in Minnesota was the ex-GN secondary mainline between Willmar and St. Cloud. A former BN/BNSF executive acquaintance of mine told me personally that they regretted that decision big-time.
schlimmI'll second that. Zug makes creative, yet objective analyses, sometimes using colorful language. He knows what he's talking about and does not have a pre-conceived agenda.
Zug has no clue what he is talking about. Why anyone listens to him is beyond me.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Well, I was going to give you some, but if you don't want it...
That's ok. All that I ask is that if you are going to insult me, do it with creativity. Makes it more fun.
359 days.
Getting back to the original post, the line in question, sometime referred to as the "Airline," was largely used for passenger trains, which were still abundant in the 1950s when I lived in the area. Outside of the usual grain elevators, canning companies, lumber yards, etc., there was never significant freight business on the Airline, at least not in my lifetime.
The through freights generally took the Janesville line (the original route to the Fox River Valley) from the junction at 9th St. in Fond du Lac and headed south-southwest to Clyman Junction where they joined the Milwaukee-Twin Cities main line and headed east towards Butler Yard. And vice-versa for Milwaukee-Fox River Valley freights.
As the need for the line lessened, it was downgraded. Ownership passed to a shortline, Fox River Valley Railroad, which eventually became part of WC and the pruning began.
John Timm
I've been on a rails to trails line in the Black Hills of South Dakota. There, it worked out perfectly. You have nice scenery on an easy grade where a railroad would never again be economically feasible.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
SD70M-2Dude writes- "Also to provide a bit more perspective Miningman's local railroads (especially Omnitrax's Hudson Bay and Carlton Trail railways) have engaged in demarketing and stripping of the worst kind, to the point where an entire subdivision with a couple key anchor customers (20+ cars daily each) was abandoned; those customers now truck to CN at North Battleford, Sk. And more recently grain shipments to the port of Churchill, MB have stopped, partly a side-effect of Canadian grain policy decisions but also because Omnitrax failed to put any money into the line and the track now resembles a dirt trail for long stretches."
Well thank you for that SD70M-2Dude. If the rail line up to the Port of Churchill is lost it would signal a change in not only Canadian but a North American strategic philosophy and positioning. It is almost inconceivable that this would be allowed to occur and yet there it is happenening in plain sight. Several Native Indian bands are getting together and looking into picking it up, much the same way they did with the newly formed Keewatin Railway Company, (essentially) running from The Pas ( for our American cousins that would be pronounced The "Paw")-Flin Flon-Lynn Lake. That would be a very smart move on their part. The Keewatin Railway Company, as far as I know, is the only 100% Aboriginal owned and operated railway line in Nprth America, ever. It is going well from all accounts.
The Port of Churchill would be rendered useless with out a rail line. The only other way to get across 800 miles of wilderness would be using airships, as in Zeppelins and such.
As for Carlton Trails Railway....I do check it out whenever I get to Prince Albert ( which most of us have to do up here for shopping and medical at times). The big yard in town seems to be relatively full, the roundhouse is in good shape but the level of activity is pretty modest, thats for sure. Caught one of their trains with a long line of grain hoppers behind 3 units in Hague. Watched them pick up more cars there but it was dark and could not make out the units too well. The centre one was marked "Kansas Central" with C&NW type paint scheme and it was really sounding very very rough. Extremely loud blasting type exhaust. It was not well.
The general picture seems everything up here is hanging on by a thread, which considering the vast distances and the incredible resources, ( potash, wheat, base metal concentrate, oil) makes little sense.
The Ontario Northland Railway is also faring quite poorly and is in grave danger of extinction. The line from Cochrane to Moosonee would be kept running by the Provincial Government as it is the only access to James Bay and the settlements on route.
Yes, I definitely live on the edge of the frontier here and our perspective on things is quite different. Railroads are essential.
Miningman If the rail line up to the Port of Churchill is lost it would signal a change in not only Canadian but a North American strategic philosophy and positioning. It is almost inconceivable that this would be allowed to occur and yet there it is happenening in plain sight. Several Native Indian bands are getting together and looking into picking it up, much the same way they did with the newly formed Keewatin Railway Company, (essentially) running from The Pas ( for our American cousins that would be pronounced The "Paw")-Flin Flon-Lynn Lake. That would be a very smart move on their part. The Keewatin Railway Company, as far as I know, is the only 100% Aboriginal owned and operated railway line in Nprth America, ever. It is going well from all accounts. The Port of Churchill would be rendered useless with out a rail line. The only other way to get across 800 miles of wilderness would be using airships, as in Zeppelins and such.
If the rail line up to the Port of Churchill is lost it would signal a change in not only Canadian but a North American strategic philosophy and positioning. It is almost inconceivable that this would be allowed to occur and yet there it is happenening in plain sight. Several Native Indian bands are getting together and looking into picking it up, much the same way they did with the newly formed Keewatin Railway Company, (essentially) running from The Pas ( for our American cousins that would be pronounced The "Paw")-Flin Flon-Lynn Lake. That would be a very smart move on their part. The Keewatin Railway Company, as far as I know, is the only 100% Aboriginal owned and operated railway line in Nprth America, ever. It is going well from all accounts.
I did hear about the proposed sale of HBRY to the Natives (can't remember which band) and hopefully it goes through. Keewatin and Tshuietin Rail (the other Native-owned railway, in northern Quebec) both seem to have been doing quite well since they started.
Oh and you're down to 358 days Zug...
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I know. Pressure is on. But those that know me, know that is a challenge I am up for.
SD70M-2 Dude- Its a number of different bands getting together to purchase it. Neglected to mention the Tshuietin Rail in Northern Quebec. These are very interesting developments and bode well for the North. The line to Churchill has to happen!
Interesting fact, which I'm certain you know of, but the others likely do not, is that in Churchill on Halloween, they have helicopters patrolling the skies above the kids watching out for and scaring off the Polar Bears, which can wander into town.
I've taken that VIA train up to Churchill from Winnipeg in the nineties..now that is a pretty demanding trip to take.
I recall the Tshuletin RR in northern Quebec was acquired by the first nation group to maintain service on a idle iron ore rail line. Then a few years ago a Quebec pension fund wanted to finance the building of a new parallel railroad. South of there the proposed line would have paralleled 2 working ore hauling lines from the main iron mining region. It sounds likes it's either feast or famine.
Wasn't there a line in NW Wisconsin that returned to service in the last 2 years? I think it was near Cameron or Rice Lake?
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
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