What happens when a train stalls?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Highiron,

It would be nice just to thumb your nose at your boss and add an insurance unit to add to each train in the mountains but you do not have access to any units to add. All those coming in on trains are due out on other trains. Borrowing one of them will likely lead to a domino effect meltdown further along the line. The boss you are mad at for shorting you the power is just as steamed at his boss who has shorted him. He is still steamed at the board of directors that only bout 75 units of the 95 that was recommended since they didn't want to be stuck with unproductive multimillion $$ units.

Older units do not pull as well as newer units but the tonnage rating tables for the units never seem to get adjusted to reflect that. That does not help when the power/tonnage ratio is tight.

Then there is the least expected. BN added PVC drain pipes to the sump drains on their SD40-2s to convey the spillage from the locomotive sumps to drop between the rails. (Don't worry, these units now have retention tanks and such environmental degradation has been stopped.) Sometimes these angular 3" PVC serer pipes were cut just a little too short. When there was a lot of oil in the sump from a tired engine and you were going up hill just fine, you might come to a right hand curve and the oil would be deposited directly on the top of the rail. The first time this happened it was perplexing. Then I figured I could just fill the lower end of the drain pipe with a wad of old wheel reports and paper towels and cap that off with some sort of plastic bag duct taped around the outside of the pipe to staunch the flow. Then I could back the train 5-10 car lengths with the MU sanders on and try again.

You have just got to love this job.

Alan

I have to agree with you there.

I wonder how many personel are suffering a form of "hell" at a railroad job because everyone is pushing or pulling on those below and those above.

[Jack_S]

I recently watched a DVD on UP/BNSF operations on the eastbound Tehachapi line from Bakersfield to Mojave, CA. The narration described another way to stall.

Just to remind you, the grade averages 2.3% for 30 miles and there are 12 tunnels extant. In at least one of the longer tunnels the full throttle operation of the 4 or 5 lead engines can use up all the consumable oxygen near the engine air intakes and result in a sudden reduction in power output about 3/4 of the way through.

When the engines emerge into clear air again they emit a huge cloud of black smoke from the super-rich mixture before leaning out and running cleanly and powerfully. If the power requirements are not calculated accurately or if one engine is slightly down on power, the possibility of a stall inside the tunnel increases greatly.

The DVD did not describe how the crew dealt with the reduced oxygen.

Jack

[Anonymous]

Average grade from Bakersfield to Summit, 50 miles is 1.36%. Ruling grade per the 1948 SP track chart is 2.5% eastward Bakersfield to Summit, 2.3% westward Mojave to Summit. Nominally, it's a 2.2% grade, but SP engineer William Hood did not compensate curves on this hill, as I recall -- SP was building very cheaply because it was building out of cash flow from the CP, because bonds had no buyers at the time.

As long as the train doesn't stall in the tunnel, the cab air seemed fine to me (you close the windows before you enter, of course). I've ridden in plenty of mid-train helpers through much longer tunnels than any of the Tehachapi tunnels, on 2.2% ascending grades, on tonnage trains, and the air quality in the cab seemed no worse than in an enginehouse.

I think Alan can relate the experience of running through tunnels like this.

OS

[Anonymous]

Here in Blair,When a Westbound Train is at or a stall all the Crew does is call the Omaha Dispatcher that they had just stalled on the Blair hill. Then the Dispatcher tells them to sit still that help is on it's way.
What happens when a Train stalls?
Well get out there and PUSH it[:D].

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

.....visions of little copper beads in the ballast section and wheelburns![}:)][}:)][}:)]

(Suddenly unit reduction ain't all that cheap![swg])

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

Ya I remember walking the CNW up to top of Blair hill just to find out where the Trains realy stalled.....I tell you what,You should have seen the top of RAILS just right where the Trains DID STALL OUT! After taking a closer look at the Rails,Can you say OUCH! You know what a FLAT WHEEL looks line don't you? Ouch. Flat Rails.

[Jack_S]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

Average grade from Bakersfield to Summit, 50 miles is 1.36%.

True, but the first 10 miles, to Magudan, is pretty flat: no more than 0.47%. And the next 10 or so to Ilmon never exceeds 1.5%. It's the last 30 miles to Summit, that never drops below 2.2% and starts off at 2.5%, to which I was referring. At least that's what my gradient map says.

As for the oxygen available to the crew, I suppose the engine air intakes on the lead engine are far enough behind the cab to make a difference and keep the crew breathing. Humans are more versatile than diesels when it comes to oxygen, I guess.

Jack

[adrianspeeder]

Well when I get the call, I go out with the ole powerstroke diesel and a big chain, pop it in 4x4 and give a tug.

hehe

Adrianspeeder

[K. P. Harrier]

In the 1970s, Santa Fe’s hottest eastbound train, the Super C, with an unusually high amount of pig traffic, stalled midway up Cajon Pass on the South track (between Cajon and Summit). Since it had a caboose in those days, the dispatcher had the train back down beyond Cajon, and then head east again on the less gradient North track. Somebody must have caught it for delaying THAT train for a whole hour!

[enr2099]

I've only seen a train stall on a hill once. The westbound Port Alberni Turn was struggling up the hill(2.2% grade) and ended up stalling. The crew backed down the hill, far enough to get a good run at the hill and were able to get up it with no problems.

[BNSFGP38]

What happens when a train stalls....
The ying of train wieght finally catches up to the yang of tractive effort and a balance is achieved. [:D]

The idea is not to stall at all. When you leave the terminal, the super or who ever is in charge should calculate wether or not that train has enough power to get up the hill AND enough brakeing horse power to come down the hill.

There was a famous example when a circus train was being pulled in the old days. The super. didnt assign another engine to help in brakeing. He wasnt aware that the circus cars were heavier than standerd passenger cars. Train went up the hill fine.......but when it came down it got away and derailed on a curve. Bahhhh.......the name escapes me............its was on Trains Unlimited.

On the SP cascades line....... helpers were often attached on the downhill run to add to the brakeing effort.