VW has been very successful by marketing good engineering. Their cars are very good. But this fiasco of deceit really hurts their reputation. Schade!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
One lie, told by one person, can seriously undermine a reputation built on the skilled and conscientious work of thousands of good people over years and years.
Tom
Unfortunately, it wasn't a lie told by one person, which is bad enough. It was a calculated scheme created by a culture of deceit. Too much caveat emptor and not enough integrity and social responsibility.
daveklepper To read the full editorial, contact the magazine at
To read the full editorial, contact the magazine at
http://www.sandv.com/downloads/1510lang.pdf
Germans make excellent Diesel Engines as well. I have one in my Mercedes ML350, the vehicle is over a ton in weight but accelerates faster, can tow more, gets better mpg milage than, costs less to maintain, than my former Buick Lucerene which was a 6 cylinder. It's only a 4 cylinder Bluetec and I can run around and tell all the local Liberals that it pollutes far less than the gasoline car engines they drive..........which is the real frosting on the cake.
Schlimm, I agree that there was more than one liar involved. My point was that one lie can have far-reaching effects. Obviously, the effects of a multitude of lies, told by several conspirators, can be geometrically more serious.
If a lie is repeated often enough, does it get percieved as the truth?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
As a scholar teaching ethics, this was head-shaking territory for me. I'm not naive (who can afford to be at my age?!), but this bespeaks a rotten culture running the show at VW. Were it not for an experience with a couple of their dealerships in the 70's that made me avoid the corporation and its various networks from thenceforth, I would have talked myself into labeling this debacle a temporary glitch.
This wasn't a summer's worth of bad employment decisions.
BaltACD If a lie is repeated often enough, does it get percieved as the truth?
Yes, as is demonstrated by much political rhetoric.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington BaltACD If a lie is repeated often enough, does it get percieved as the truth? Yes, as is demonstrated by much political rhetoric.
Johnny
Did not the germans start the demoniazation on the Jews with Ghering's lies. eventualy leading to WWII? The most valuable thing you have is your reputation and if it is called into question, you don't want lies on your record. The Chicago Police are under fire now for the lying about the shooting by officer Van *** that the video exposed. And the five other officers that claimed the young man was a threat to them also are tarnished. The proverbial rotten apple in the barrel of apples ruins true for all. The cover up is as bad or worse than the crime. So, while I may have sympathy for the employees and shareholders that will bear the fallout from the VW fraud, it does need pain to prevent it becoming business as usual. IMHO.
I cannot disagree one bit with comments posted. The editorial does present the possibility that top management never knew, and that it was a scam perpted by computer programmers and low-level engineers to meet nearly impossible requiprements handed to them. But even then it speaks of some real faults in thr culture.
Electroliner 1935 Did not the germans start the demoniazation on the Jews with Ghering's lies. eventualy leading to WWII? The most valuable thing you have is your reputation and if it is called into question, you don't want lies on your record. The Chicago Police are under fire now for the lying about the shooting by officer Van *** that the video exposed. And the five other officers that claimed the young man was a threat to them also are tarnished. The proverbial rotten apple in the barrel of apples ruins true for all. The cover up is as bad or worse than the crime. So, while I may have sympathy for the employees and shareholders that will bear the fallout from the VW fraud, it does need pain to prevent it becoming business as usual. IMHO.
I don't believe you are, but that part of your post almost sounds like you are advocating "trial in the media". The media posts according to their agenda, so what you read there isn't necessarily factual.
Norm
Norm48327 Electroliner 1935 Did not the germans start the demoniazation on the Jews with Ghering's lies. eventualy leading to WWII? The most valuable thing you have is your reputation and if it is called into question, you don't want lies on your record. The Chicago Police are under fire now for the lying about the shooting by officer Van *** that the video exposed. And the five other officers that claimed the young man was a threat to them also are tarnished. The proverbial rotten apple in the barrel of apples ruins true for all. The cover up is as bad or worse than the crime. So, while I may have sympathy for the employees and shareholders that will bear the fallout from the VW fraud, it does need pain to prevent it becoming business as usual. IMHO. I don't believe you are, but that part of your post almost sounds like you are advocating "trial in the media". The media posts according to their agenda, so what you read there isn't necessarily factual.
Did the media 'release' the 1st video, or was it the Chicago Police. I believe the Chicago Police released it, the media diseminated it and those that have viewed it have formed their own opinions.
Surely part of the problem is that emissions and fuel economy are being tested on static dynamometers rather than on the road now that the technology exists to test both under road conditions.
It was on road testing that revealed the "cheating" not because the official figures weren't matched, which nobody expected, but because the figures obtained were nothing like the test figures.
While it can be argued that dynamometer testing gives a consistent result, it also gives relatively favourable figures which the manufacturers like to use in their advertising.
It is all summed up by the words "your mileage may vary"....
Everyone in the industry knows the banner fuel consumption figures are better than any driver could expect to get in actual driving, not least because air resistance and vehicle weight do not affect the dynamometer figures.
But since everyone knows that the dynamometer figures can't be met in real life, adjusting your software to enhance the test figures may happen more often than is revealed. The transmission settings of the Chevrolet Corvette to go from first gear directly to top on low throttle was a "cheat" if you like but every Corvette had it and owners could use that feature if they wished.
But the culture that testing was unrelated to real life pervaded the industry and it was expected that a difference between testing and real life would never have drawn any attention. Thus the temptation to make the two completely separate with little risk of discovery becomes a solution that overcomes a requirement that strains the bounds of physics.
Management weren't interested in, and probably didn't understand the technicalities of the solution. They did want the solution that cost the company the least. It is easy to believe that top management didn't know what had been done.
But the understanding that test conditions did not need to be based on real operation encouraged the solution based on two separate engine control programs where the test oriented program met emission controls and the road program optimised performance, without that seeming to be cheating because the two modes were completely separate.
If all vehicles were tested on the road, there would be no opportunity for such cheating and no need for the words "your mileage may vary".
M636C
ndbprrI thought this was a site to talk about trains. I must have missed something.
The boat?
BaltACD Norm48327 Electroliner 1935 Did not the germans start the demoniazation on the Jews with Ghering's lies. eventualy leading to WWII? The most valuable thing you have is your reputation and if it is called into question, you don't want lies on your record. The Chicago Police are under fire now for the lying about the shooting by officer Van *** that the video exposed. And the five other officers that claimed the young man was a threat to them also are tarnished. The proverbial rotten apple in the barrel of apples ruins true for all. The cover up is as bad or worse than the crime. So, while I may have sympathy for the employees and shareholders that will bear the fallout from the VW fraud, it does need pain to prevent it becoming business as usual. IMHO. I don't believe you are, but that part of your post almost sounds like you are advocating "trial in the media". The media posts according to their agenda, so what you read there isn't necessarily factual. Did the media 'release' the 1st video, or was it the Chicago Police. I believe the Chicago Police released it, the media diseminated it and those that have viewed it have formed their own opinions.
The police department released the several videos only because a judge ordered it 13 months after the killing and only because a freelance reporter filed a suit asking for it. So be glad we have a free press, as the Constitution's 1st amendment guarantees.
M636C Surely part of the problem is that emissions and fuel economy are being tested on static dynamometers rather than on the road now that the technology exists to test both under road conditions. It was on road testing that revealed the "cheating" not because the official figures weren't matched, which nobody expected, but because the figures obtained were nothing like the test figures. While it can be argued that dynamometer testing gives a consistent result, it also gives relatively favourable figures which the manufacturers like to use in their advertising. It is all summed up by the words "your mileage may vary".... Everyone in the industry knows the banner fuel consumption figures are better than any driver could expect to get in actual driving, not least because air resistance and vehicle weight do not affect the dynamometer figures. But since everyone knows that the dynamometer figures can't be met in real life, adjusting your software to enhance the test figures may happen more often than is revealed. The transmission settings of the Chevrolet Corvette to go from first gear directly to top on low throttle was a "cheat" if you like but every Corvette had it and owners could use that feature if they wished. But the culture that testing was unrelated to real life pervaded the industry and it was expected that a difference between testing and real life would never have drawn any attention. Thus the temptation to make the two completely separate with little risk of discovery becomes a solution that overcomes a requirement that strains the bounds of physics. Management weren't interested in, and probably didn't understand the technicalities of the solution. They did want the solution that cost the company the least. It is easy to believe that top management didn't know what had been done. But the understanding that test conditions did not need to be based on real operation encouraged the solution based on two separate engine control programs where the test oriented program met emission controls and the road program optimised performance, without that seeming to be cheating because the two modes were completely separate. If all vehicles were tested on the road, there would be no opportunity for such cheating and no need for the words "your mileage may vary". M636C
The puzzling thing to me is I have a 2004 VW Golf with TDI 1.6L diesel. It has consistently gotten mpg very similar or exceeding the EPA estimate. Engines that old did not have the software 'fudge' and I wonder why they bothered later when it really seems unnecessary.
schlimm The puzzling thing to me is I have a 2004 VW Golf with TDI 1.6L diesel. It has consistently gotten mpg very similar or exceeding the EPA estimate. Engines that old did not have the software 'fudge' and I wonder why they bothered later when it really seems unnecessary.
You engine is giving great gas mileage, but is probably (not necessarily, but probably) giving off more polutants than it would if using the newer technology of emissions controls (both hardwear and software) and it probably has more power and "pickup" than if those emissions controlls were working properly (and you'd have poorer gas mileage if they were working right to reduce emissions).
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo schlimm The puzzling thing to me is I have a 2004 VW Golf with TDI 1.6L diesel. It has consistently gotten mpg very similar or exceeding the EPA estimate. Engines that old did not have the software 'fudge' and I wonder why they bothered later when it really seems unnecessary. You engine is giving great gas mileage, but is probably (not necessarily, but probably) giving off more polutants than it would if using the newer technology of emissions controls (both hardwear and software) and it probably has more power and "pickup" than if those emissions controlls were working properly (and you'd have poorer gas mileage if they were working right to reduce emissions).
I forgot to mention that in the Chicago suburbs I had to have it pass an emissions inspection some years ago. It was put on a dynometer and a sampling device was put over the exhaust pipe. It passed easily.
Thank you for the above posting.
I have contributed railroad-related articles to Noise Control Engineering and to Sound and Communications, the later "A/V for Public Transit." I think some readers might find them interesting, and reprints are avialable by return emial from my email address: daveklepper@yahoo.com.
I have also written for Audio, Sound and Video Contractor, The Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, Journal of the United States Institute for Theatre Technology, and The Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (editred two anthologies for them). Letters and/or sidebars have appeared in Acoustics Torday and Physics Today. So, yes, there is plenty to read. And when I am at the computer and on the Internet, not a permenant connection, I can visit www.proaudioencyclopedia.com and see what the editor has done with my latest contribution as well as reading others'. Hard to choose which area I should spend my limited time!
Remember that my main job is perusing and learning from sacred books, along with Tradition, the magazine of the Orthodox Union, and Conversations, the magazine of the Institute of Jewish Ideas and Ideals. But I also read Religious Humanism (thoroughly) and various Catholic and Muslim publications at the HU Library from time. Protestant publications in English seem to be missing there, but I get the regular mailings from two Episcopal churches, and the magazines The American Organist and the Diapason keep me informed about any really important sea-changes.
All that leaves zero time to go out and photograph TRAINS of course --- except when I am hosting a visiting railfan friend, about one a year for a few days.
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