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Need History of old PA steam locomotive 906

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Need History of old PA steam locomotive 906
Posted by dalong on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:25 PM

I have an old photo from the early 1900's of steam engine #906. Locatiom probably East Altoona / Saltillo Pa area. Can anyone shead some light on the history of this locomotive?  Will share this photo but can't figure out how to load it on this site.

Tags: PA , PA Locomotives
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Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 6:54 PM

First of all, there's a big difference between East Altoona on the Pennsylvania Railroad, and Saltillo, which was served only by the narrow gauge East Broad Top. If you post a picture, we might be able to give more help.

As for number 906, PRR had at least three locos bearing that number over the years. 

First 906 was a class F 0-6-0 built by the Altoona Machine Shops in April, 1873, construction number 184, later reclassed B1.  She was cut up in August of 1896.

Second 906 was a class F1 2-6-0. Information on builder, construction number, and dates of construction and retirement are not known to me.  Class F1 engines were built during the period 1895 - 1897 at Juniata and possibly other shops. 

Third 906 was a class L1s 2-8-2, built by Baldwin in January, 1916, construction number 42750.  She was scrapped in February, 1949.

This information comes from two main sources: PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD ALTOONA MACHINE SHOPS CONSTRUCTION NUMBER LIST, 1866 - 1904, by Joseph D. Lovell, published by Library of American Transportation for the NRHS, 1984; and KEYSTONE STEAM AND ELECTRIC, by William D. Edson, Wayner Publications, 1974. 

Tom

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 7:09 PM

Welcome.

For posting photos, they must be hosted on another site, like photobucket.

Once on a site like this, view the picture only, and copy the address.

Then, you would simply use the "insert" option, then, under "source", paste the address of the photo (remember, photo only) into this bar. 

Then, finish post, and you have a post with a photo attached.

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1: It's my railroad, my rules.

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Posted by dalong on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 8:13 PM

PA 906 Photo PA 906

Photo of 906

 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, August 19, 2015 9:15 PM

Wheel arrangement of the 906 in your photo ? 

Does it look to be standard or narrow gauge ?  What kind of stack, domes, cab, headlight, pilot, tender, etc. ?

East Broad Top locos were numbered only from 1 to 18 or 24 - see:

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Loco/ 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locolist.aspx?id=EBT 

The Huntington & Broad Top Mountain railroad (standard gauge) was in the same corner of the world, but it too had no locomotive numbered higher than 40 - see:

http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/pennsylvania-midland-railroad/114-general/guide/291-huntingdon-broad-top-mountain-coal-company  

Even the Ligonier Valley Rail Road - slightly farther west - had no locomotive from the early 1900's with a number higher than 807 - see:

http://www.lvrra.org/motivepower.htm 

So your photo would likely be of a PRR locomotive anyway, per the above post.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 20, 2015 9:58 AM

But definitely not an L-1 2-8-2.  Being that it has a pilot (cowcatcher) and not footboards, I would suggest it is the 2-6-0, not the 0-6-0.

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Posted by dalong on Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:01 AM

Thanks.

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:39 AM

The photo has been in some way retouched or whatever the 1910 version of "photoshopped" was.  It is some sort of a staged prop for taking the photos of the workers.  The cabs of the engines are touching and there is pipe connecting the two engines.  The number plate on "Engine no 1"  has obviously been hand drawn.  Note there is a line at the top of the pilot, below the pilot beam that extends all the way across the picture, including across the cylinder heads, a seam in the prop?

Those things aside, the engine would most likely be the 2-6-0 based on the size, general shape and pilot construction.

 

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:48 AM

   Dalong, do you know anything about the circumstances of this picture?   The locomotives are close enough that the cabs appear to be touching.   What is the structure that appears to be across the tops of the boilers?   The crudely painted circle around the "1" on the left locomotive strikes me as odd.   Does anyone else have an idea?   All I can think of is that it must be in a shop.

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Posted by dalong on Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:57 AM

This photo was passed down through the family. The man on the left (legs crossed) is a cousin Frank Elsworth Hoffman (1878 - 1936) who worked at PRR in East Altoona as a machinest.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:06 AM

Just Googled PRR F1 class 2-6-0.  The very first image that came up (initial, not images) was F3b 4099.  Nice not-quite broadside of fireman's side.

The OP's photo is definitely a PRR loco (follow the handrail back to the Belpaire firebox) and note the general proportions in comparison to the workers.  Definitely a standard gauge engine.

As for #1, the chalk circle and number are an attempt to simulate the number plate that isn't there.  I wonder if that was actually the right number.

The whole arrangement looks like a couple of obsolete locos cobbled into a shop steam supply - rather like what N&W did with two of their earliest 0-8-8-0s at Roanoke.

Chuck

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, August 20, 2015 11:29 AM
I agree that the photo looks like it has been manually edited to create a somewhat stylized image, possibly with the combination of two separate photographs.  The background in particular looks like a collage that creates an abstract image.  This is especially the case in the area above the cabs between the two engines.  The apparent line of rivets along the curve of the cab roof of #906 is implausible because it is above the cab rather than on it.  The point of this abstract background may have been to obscure the line of separation between the two independent images.
 
Engine #906 appears to have originated with a wooden cowcatcher typical of the 1800s.  Subsequently, it has been partly faced with nailed-on boards to make a solid face.  The cowcatcher on the left side locomotive appears to have been homemade with wood struts and bolted-on bars and angle iron.
 
I agree that #906 is most likely a 2-6-0 road engine, and probably built prior to 1890. Is that a porthole window above the cab door?
 

It looks like the shop forces have dispensed with the tedious practice of carefully positioning and torqueing down the nuts on the smokebox door dogs every time the smokebox door was opened and closed.  It looks like they would just tap the dogs with a hammer to turn them 90 degrees to engage or release them.  And they didn’t worry if a few dogs were not doing their part.   

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 20, 2015 12:38 PM

When did the Pennsy start using the Keystone on the number plates?

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Posted by K4sPRR on Thursday, August 20, 2015 12:49 PM

tree68

When did the Pennsy start using the Keystone on the number plates?

 

 

Not being partial to freight or passenger locomotives they started using them c.1927, not all class's of steam locomotives were equipped with them.  Many retained the round plates.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 20, 2015 1:29 PM

K4sPRR

 

 
tree68

When did the Pennsy start using the Keystone on the number plates?

Not being partial to freight or passenger locomotives they started using them c.1927, not all class's of steam locomotives were equipped with them.  Many retained the round plates.

Rog.  Thought it might give a clue as to the vintage or origin of the loco.  Thanks!

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Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:11 PM

I can't explain the curved rivet line which seems to be above 906's cab.  Could it be something behind 906?  It is possible that the photo was altered. From the photo, 906 is definitely the F1 2-6-0.  PRR 2-8-0 no. 1 was an H6b in her later years, and may have been built as an earlier variant.  One man on the pilot of 906 is holding some sort of gauge, and the very close positioning of the two engines suggest (to me) some sort of extraordinary testing activity at East Altoona.  Chuck's suggestion that this has something to do with supplying steam as an ersatz stationary boiler setup, also is plausible.  The wooden slats on 906's pilot were not uncommon on PRR in the years between about 1900 and about 1925, so "early 1900's" sounds right.

Correct that keystone number plates were not applied to locos during this time period.  When the practice started, it was restricted to passenger and dual service engines, although some more modern freight locos (J's and Duplexes) got keystones in later years.  It's probably pretty safe to say no PRR 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 ever wore a keystone number plate. 

The photo of the F3b 2-6-0 might be misleading, since the F1 was a smaller engine than the F3b.

This is NOT Saltillo.

Tom 

(edited)

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, August 20, 2015 2:55 PM

I think the roof material is about the same color as the background and that makes it sort of dissappear and makes the line of rivets seem to be floating in mid air.  I think the front edge of the roof is curved back starting right about the top edge of the rivets.

The photo does leave one wondering how they got those two engines that close together!

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by K4sPRR on Thursday, August 20, 2015 3:11 PM

In the photo look closely below the left foot of the man seated second from the left.  There appears to be a pipe going left and right between the locomotives and then a pipe going back between the two.  Then look closely at the terrain on the extreme right and left on the photo its as if they are backed into the side of a hill.  If this is some sort of use as a stationary industrial boiler I guess we discovered a new definition for a dual purpose locomotive.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 20, 2015 4:10 PM

If you blow up the picture and look underneath the cylinders - there appears to be a 6 to 8 inch pipe and a round valve operating handle.

With the cab window boarded up and the rivets above the cabs, I believe they have been installed at some factory as 'cheap' replacement boilers for whatever needs the factory has for steam - most likely operating machine tools.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, August 20, 2015 4:22 PM

I am starting to see this as an amazing photograph.  It seems to show something exaggerated.  It also has a staged look because having engines parked so close to each other seems absurd.  Although a side-by-side boiler setup for stationary power might be a reason for nesting the engines so close to each other.  

But there are other details that seem mysterious.  There is a tremedous clarity and perspective in the picture.  The perfection of the depiction of those posed men is stunning in its detail.  You can see a lot in their expressions.  I would say the guy on the right is in charge and the one in the middle is the newbie.  

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, August 20, 2015 10:15 PM

BaltACD

If you blow up the picture and look underneath the cylinders - there appears to be a 6 to 8 inch pipe and a round valve operating handle.

With the cab window boarded up and the rivets above the cabs, I believe they have been installed at some factory as 'cheap' replacement boilers for whatever needs the factory has for steam - most likely operating machine tools.

 
YES!
 
The front wall of the cabs have been incorporated into the wall above and around them.  Looks like that wall is sheet metal, too.  I agree that they are a pair of interconnected boilers for use in something other than pulling trains of cars on rails.
 
 
As for who is in charge... I think the fellow on the extreme right is not the boss, he just has the most seniority; the man in charge is the second from the right, wearing the tie and holding the gauge and siphon tube.  And yes, the guy in the middle has the least seniority... and probably a "Kick me" sign on his back put there by the fellow on to the left of him... at the instigation of the fellow on the extreme left.

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM

I'm willing to go with the Stationary Boilers theory.  I suspect one of the many facilities in Altoona was getting a new boiler, and this setup was there as a temporary measure.  Maybe the photographer showed up on short notice and wanted to get his picture before the crew had time to secure the smokebox door dogs.  

If the engine on the left is correctly identified as number 1, it's interesting to note that she was returned to service and lasted a long time in PRR service.  My information on this loco is severely lacking, but Stauffer's PENNSY POWER (not necessarily an authoritative source) shows her rebuilt as an H6sb, and gives a photo date of 1934, which is plausible.

Of course, if the engine on the left is not identified correctly, then, in the words of Emily Litella, "Never mind."

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