CBTThe first road through would have no worries about maintaining anything that is made necessary by a later arrival on the scene.
I suspect UP (or any other "senior road") would object to the phrase "no worries" here. Their mgt is going to be just as much or more concerned with maintenance of diamond(s) as the junior road's.
The junior road would be responsible financially for the maintenance but local (and very old) agreements will determine who actually performs the maintenance. The senior road would frequently not trust the junior's MoW crews and would insist on doing the maintenance with the junior paying for it. The senior road was, of course, in the stronger bargaining position.
ChuckAllen, TX
My impression was that the crews who park over on the right-hand side of the diamonds (between the eastbound UP and the westbound BNSF tracks) and do almost all of the work I have seen, were all UP people. Was this wrong? Both roads seem to use all-white trucks, and I can't see any logos.
/Mr Lynn
MrLynn My impression was that the crews who park over on the right-hand side of the diamonds (between the eastbound UP and the westbound BNSF tracks) and do almost all of the work I have seen, were all UP people. Was this wrong? Both roads seem to use all-white trucks, and I can't see any logos. /Mr Lynn
I have on occasion been watching the webcam feed when a MOW truck has arrived and maneuvered so as to show the doors of the truck and it was pretty clear that the truck was a UP truck. The trucks, especially the heavy ones, certainly look like the UP trucks one often sees in Tehachapi, especially at night when they are parked in front of the motel on Tehachapi Blvd. Lots of trucks in the parking lot does not bode well for daytime train watching the next day.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe because UP heralds on MoW trucks are smaller than their BNSF counterparts that I've seen, I had also assumed it was UP crews performing the maintenance. But even if our assumptions are correct, BNSF would still be likely to be paying for the maintenance if BNSF (OK, a predecessor) is the junior road.
Just got a Rio Grande diesel on the Union Pacific.
Nice friendly wave from the workman on the roof!!
I saw that too!!
The train that went by while he was up there was interesting as well. It was about as close to a unit train of wood products as you could ever see. From logs to various types of finished lumber.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Probably "run through power," and/or paying back horsepower hours.
Nowadays, it's not uncommon for the locomotives a train starts with to stay on it for the entire trip. We're mostly talking bulk commodities and expidited runs (UPS, perishables). They therefore "run through" from origin to destination, even though they run on the home road's rails.
Of course, NS will want some compensation for the time that the locomotives are off home rails. There's a lot of accounting that goes along with that. One way that compensation can take place is for BNSF locomotives to be used on NS. The "currency" is horsepower hours in that case. If things get too out of whack, to the point that one railroad simply can't give up enough power to make the payback, cash may well change hands.
That's not to say that leasing doesn't take place, but I believe most leasing these days is from third party vendors, as opposed to other railroads. I'll gladly stand corrected.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
A couple months ago i caught two UP engines leading a four engine Stack on the Bnsf and the VERY next train WB on UP, had two Bnsfs, not head end, but in the power consist. was a bit slow to getting a picture of them and missed it.
I do hate that we get very little to no variety of foreign power on CN in Canada, even as trailing units. I guess that is the downfall of requiring a fridge and microwave in every lead unit.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
The lead unit of all trains on the UP has to be able to work with the old C&NW's cab signals and Automatic Train Control. So you shouldn't ever see any foreign units in the lead.Just last week I saw a train off CSX (nothing but CSX power) sitting on the UP main line at the west end of Proviso, with a UP unit about to tie on for the trip west. Foreign trains are allowed to come as far west at Proviso (15 miles or so).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
There was a recent Trains article on run-through power. Don't have the issue handy to cite.
Just saw the mid-day local heading long-hood forward into the siding with a few boxcars. What engine is it--GP-XX? And what are the white bulges atop the cab?
Interesting fact about the cab signals, thanks for sharing. Guess all of that is on borrowed time now with PTC.
Been watching a stopped BNSF train full of Auto Racks stopped for the last two refreshes.
rdamon Been watching a stopped BNSF train full of Auto Racks stopped for the last two refreshes.
Auto racks still there; what's that, about half an hour? BNSF storing them across the diamonds? That's not going to sit well with UP.
Moving now ... Turned on the scanner feed and heard "Red Flag Restriction" mentioned.
Let's see how many UP trains are backed up!!
Yesterday I saw a UP double stack back up and pull forward then back up and pull forward etc...
CBT Yesterday I saw a UP double stack back up and pull forward then back up and pull forward etc...
Check Google Earth, CBT. There's a fair sized container terminal just west of the diamonds. Impossible for a normal length eastbound to leave or take blocks without using the main.
cefinkjr CBT Yesterday I saw a UP double stack back up and pull forward then back up and pull forward etc... Check Google Earth, CBT. There's a fair sized container terminal just west of the diamonds. Impossible for a normal length eastbound to leave or take blocks without using the main.
And i just saw a littlle muskrat beside the track.
Fairly heavy traffic this afternoon. In the last few minutes, I've seen:
Gotta close that window. I'm not getting anything else done.
Of course, the trains that were blowing for crossings before the trains on the other railroad cleared were proceeding prepared to stop at the home signal. It sounds like the railroads were cooperating with each other this afternoon. Had they not been, there was a possibility that grade crossings in the city would have been blocked. The dispatchers had to know that a window was gong to open, or the trains would have been stopped short of the city, clear of crossings.
If Rochelle is a truly 'automatic' crossing at grade (as I have been told), the Dispatchers have nothing to do with it's operation. The movement of trains across the crossing is goverened by the activation of the various relays in the signal mechanisms that govern the crossing.
Either TTSI (Timetable Special Instructions) or local custom will govern the operation of trains when operating on less than Clear Signal indications and those Instructions or customs will instruct trains where to hold their trains, based upon train length, when the signal system does not indicate that the trains have clear movement across the crossing so as to prevent blocking road crossings for extended periods of time.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
That's just it: the dispatchers or crews have to be in communication with each other--just the assurance that nothing else is close on their line would serve to allow a train from the other railroad to come into town on signal indication. There are rules against sharing signal indications with other crews, but telling a crew that they shouldn't have to wait too long for the crossing to clear is probably legal, and definitely heads-up railroading.Balt, what you said about special instructions is accurate, but doesn't jibe with the observation that opposing trains were sounding their horns for crossings before the other train cleared. Hence my observation that something "above and beyond" is going on in this instance.
cefinkjr Gotta close that window. I'm not getting anything else done.
I have the same issue here.
BaltACD If Rochelle is a truly 'automatic' crossing at grade (as I have been told), the Dispatchers have nothing to do with it's operation. The movement of trains across the crossing is goverened by the activation of the various relays in the signal mechanisms that govern the crossing. Either TTSI (Timetable Special Instructions) or local custom will govern the operation of trains when operating on less than Clear Signal indications and those Instructions or customs will instruct trains where to hold their trains, based upon train length, when the signal system does not indicate that the trains have clear movement across the crossing so as to prevent blocking road crossings for extended periods of time.
I was wondering about that myself. I did get a hint from an incidental remark made by the BNSF Dispatcher to a train that did not have the signal to cross the diamond although the dispatcher's screen did not show an occupancy by UP. The dispatcher indicated he had "requested" the route through the diamonds. That seems to indicate that either one or both railroads have the ability to request routes through the plant. There also appears to be a timeout function; if it's desired to let a timed-out request be renewed there is a "restart" function. But this is all speculation on my part frome these snippets of conversation.
A request feature seems logical at this crossing since all main tracks are CTC and the dispatchers need the ability to maintain any directiosomeonen of traffic they may have set outside the crossing limits; wouldn't want an improper movement against the set direction of traffic to proceed through the crossing just because it triggered the track circuit in advance of the home signal.
xjqcf BaltACD If Rochelle is a truly 'automatic' crossing at grade (as I have been told), the Dispatchers have nothing to do with it's operation. The movement of trains across the crossing is goverened by the activation of the various relays in the signal mechanisms that govern the crossing. Either TTSI (Timetable Special Instructions) or local custom will govern the operation of trains when operating on less than Clear Signal indications and those Instructions or customs will instruct trains where to hold their trains, based upon train length, when the signal system does not indicate that the trains have clear movement across the crossing so as to prevent blocking road crossings for extended periods of time. I was wondering about that myself. I did get a hint from an incidental remark made by the BNSF Dispatcher to a train that did not have the signal to cross the diamond although the dispatcher's screen did not show an occupancy by UP. The dispatcher indicated he had "requested" the route through the diamonds. That seems to indicate that either one or both railroads have the ability to request routes through the plant. There also appears to be a timeout function; if it's desired to let a timed-out request be renewed there is a "restart" function. But this is all speculation on my part frome these snippets of conversation. A request feature seems logical at this crossing since all main tracks are CTC and the dispatchers need the ability to maintain any directiosomeonen of traffic they may have set outside the crossing limits; wouldn't want an improper movement against the set direction of traffic to proceed through the crossing just because it triggered the track circuit in advance of the home signal.
If either or both carriers have to 'request' a route through the plant, it is not truly a 'automatic' crossing - wherein, just the track occupancy of a train automatically requests the signal.
With Global 3 being immediatly West of the crossing, it would be in the UP's best interests to be able to use the WB signals over the crossing as 'hold out' signals to allow Global 3 crews 'head room' out of Global 3 down to the diamond. I have always suspected that the crossing was 'semi-automatic' where either carriers Dispatchers had to request a route through the crossing before the 'automatic' circuitry would become effective. It would be interesting to know what level of 'land line' communications take place between the UP & BNSF Dispatchers in lining up traffic over the crossing.
CShaveRR That's just it: the dispatchers or crews have to be in communication with each other--just the assurance that nothing else is close on their line would serve to allow a train from the other railroad to come into town on signal indication. There are rules against sharing signal indications with other crews, but telling a crew that they shouldn't have to wait too long for the crossing to clear is probably legal, and definitely heads-up railroading.Balt, what you said about special instructions is accurate, but doesn't jibe with the observation that opposing trains were sounding their horns for crossings before the other train cleared. Hence my observation that something "above and beyond" is going on in this instance.
Probably most trains on both railroads prety much know if they are approaching a stop signal at the diamonds by the aspect of the first signal in advance of the appropriate home signal at the diamond and stop accordingly. The eastbound UP trains usually stop clear of the road crossing just to the west of the diamonds (According to Google Maps it's either 1st Ave. or Jack Dame Dr.) They might be able to see the signal from there. UP westbounds mostly stop clear of the crossings, but often don't, especially the "Z" trains. BNSF eastbounds usually stop short of their road crossing (Lincoln Hwy., the historic US 30). Their home signal is located well wet of the diamonds (Apparently to provide better apprach visibility around the 35 mph curve locted immediately west of the diamonds; after a UP movement clears I can always hear them whistle for the road crossing. Westbound BNSF trains stop at the intermediate signal in dvance of the home signal per special instruction:
"(UP) NX XING Rochelle—In order to minimize blocking of roadcrossings in the city of Rochelle, westward trains, not working atRochelle, are to be governed by the following instructions:When the signal at MP 82.0 displays a less than clear aspect,trains are to remain east of the Steamplant Road Crossing(MP 81.9), and will proceed to the UP diamond after receivinginstructions from the train dispatcher."
The scanner chatter I've heard seems to confirm this practice.
Since its an automatic interlocking in CTC, the interlocking doesn't even show on the dispatchers board. If you looked at a dispatcher's board you would never know the crossing at Rochelle exists, it isn't even a label. the dispatcher can request a route through the block that contains Rochelle, but can't do anything with the interlocking itself.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
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