How long were freight trains in the late 1800's?

[Ulrich]

Back when  American Standards and Moguls were the norm on freight trains and cars were 20 ft. to 36 ft.,, how long would a typical freight train have been in those days? 20 cars? 40 cars? 

[Euclid]

There was a lot of variation like there is today.  But like today, there was a general maximum.  I don’t have any statistical information, but there may be some.  But generally, based on a few specific historical references I would speculate that in non-mountainous territory, 25-40 cars was the common practice. 

Lots of photos show at least 20 cars.  But photos usually cannot show more than about 20 cars, so they cannot give evidence of trains longer than that number. Not only were there 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s, but also 2-8-0s were common.  I have not seen much photographic evidence of double heading locomotives in that era. 

In his book, The American Railroad Freight Car, John White covers the 4-wheel ore “jimmies” of the anthracite roads.  They lasted long after the general class of 4-wheel cars was obsolete.  Some roads operated very long trains of jimmies.  White cites one Lehigh Valley train in 1879 composed of 593 jimmies.  That would be a train 1.5 miles long in 1879.

[BaltACD]

Euclid

There was a lot of variation like there is today.  But like today, there was a general maximum.  I don’t have any statistical information, but there may be some.  But generally, based on a few specific historical references I would speculate that in non-mountainous territory, 25-40 cars was the common practice. 

Lots of photos show at least 20 cars.  But photos usually cannot show more than about 20 cars, so they cannot give evidence of trains longer than that number. Not only were there 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s, but also 2-8-0s were common.  I have not seen much photographic evidence of double heading locomotives in that era. 

In his book, The American Railroad Freight Car, John White covers the 4-wheel ore “jimmies” of the anthracite roads.  They lasted long after the general class of 4-wheel cars was obsolete.  Some roads operated very long trains of jimmies.  White cites one Lehigh Valley train in 1879 composed of 593 jimmies.  That would be a train 1.5 miles long in 1879.

With air brakes not having been mandated until 1893 and universal in 1900, makes one wonder how you controlled a 593 car train in 1879????

The Safety Appliance Act is a United States federal law that made air brakes and automatic couplers mandatory on all trains in the United States. It was enacted on March 2, 1893 and took effect in 1900, after a 7 year grace period. The act is credited with a sharp drop in accidents on American railroads in the early twentieth century.

[Euclid]

BaltACD

With air brakes not having been mandated until 1893 and universal in 1900, makes one wonder how you controlled a 593 car train in 1879????

I suppose they controlled it with brakemen riding the cars, and winding and releasing the hand brakes.  White does not say, but I would guess that the 593 cars were empty.  If they were loaded, that would be at least 2965 tons of anthracite plus the weight of the cars, which would be about another 2900 tons for the cars.  I have no idea what grades were involved but it was on the Lehigh Valley RR. 

White also mentions that a record of a train of 225 loaded jimmies was successfully run over the line in 1891.  So that would be about 2200-2400 tons for the train weight. 

[henry6]

Before air brakes trains weren't much more than 20 to 25 cars, probably less. A lot depended on the cars, loads, empties, grades, and available manpower. After airbrakes they steadily grew in length as power was increased by locomotive development from 20 to 25 to start to 50 to 75 but rarely 100 by the late 1930s. Then it stuck in the 75-100 40ft car lengths until the 70's when cars began to grow and engine power leaped.

[dehusman]

Based on information in the annual reports of the Wilmington & Northern Railroad in Google Books, the average train in the late 1800's was about 25 cars and had 6 crew members.  The average passenger train had 3 cars and 4 crew members.

[PNWRMNM]

From Illinois Central Railroad, Mississippi Division, Telegraph Register of Trains Water Valley to Canton (both in Mississippi) Friday December 22, 1893.

Arriving into Water Valley from Canton

#2     8 cars

#4     5 cars

#92         11 cars, had as many as 18. Looks like peddler/local

3rd #52  23 cars

#54         30 cars

#84         30 cars

#52         23 cars Banana, s/o 2 at Grenada (probably for Memphis)

#83         28

2nd #82 43

Extra       25

Toward Canton leaving Water Valley

#1  6 cars

#3  6 cars

#53        26 cars

X706     Lite eng., p/u 26 enroute

X704     Lite eng., p/u 23 enroute

#61       17 cars

#55       Lite eng, p/u 23

#51       26

#91       8  evidently local opposite #92

Dispatchers were not dilligent about showing loads and empties. No tonnage of length given.

Territory is hill country of Mississippi, no great elevation change, but lots of up and down.

All passenger (#1-4) power 4-4-0. All freight power 700 series 2-6-0, except #91 had 4-4-0.

I suspect pickups toward Canton were virtually all baled cotton.

This was the only through route between New Orleans and Chicago, That is, it was the IC's main line.

I estimate tare weight of 15 tons per box car. Capacity probably about half & half 30 and 40 tons net.

I suspect cotton loads were about 30 tons, so 45 tons per car gross and about 25 car maximum would be 1125 tons evident practical maximum on this territory. My figure on cotton loads is very speculative since I do not know bale size and weight, nor if were two layers high. In other words I would not be too surprised to find lighter loads than what I figured above.

Mac McCulloch

[PNWRMNM]

I came across a 1910 Mississippi Division ETT which includes tonnage ratings. The 700 series 2-6-0 had by then been renumbered into the 400 series.

Relevant tonnage ratings

From                       To                         A                  B

Water Valley           Durant                950              1075

Durant                    Canton                950              1250

Canton                   Water Valley       900              1125

The first two are southbound and cover one crew district. 'A" ratings are fast freight, livestock and/or perishable trains. "B" ratings are drag freight.

To my surprise ratings between Grenada and Memphis were substantially lower, 775 tons drag in both directions. As of 1910 the bulk of scheduled freight trains ran via Water Valley.

Mac

[Deggesty]

I have no knowledge of the terrain of the old main line, but the line between Memphis and Grenada runs through the hills. A friend who rode the City from Memphis to Brookhaven spoke of quite noticeable lateral motion in the observation car, with glasses and such moving around. The only time I rode out of Memphis in the daytime I was on the engine as far as Grenada, and did not notice such, even though we were traveling at 90 mph, according to the speedometer

[Euclid]

The title question of this thread is highly generalized, so it is difficult to give an simple answer.  The answer must be qualified as to the types of trains run by various railroads, and their terrain; and whether we are referring to average length or maximum length.  Maybe OP Ulrich could come back and explain the basis for his question, and that might help narrow down the answer. 

Generally every detail of trains and track was smaller during the 1880s than today. 

The only exception is gage.  We still use the gage of 1880 despite the fact that everything else has grown larger. 

[john_edwards]

A bale of cotton weighed in the neighborhood of 500-600 lbs.  the size was about 3x3x6 feet ( based on childhood memory).  They were moved by a big hand cart so it's doubtful they were two high back in the day.

John

[wanswheel]

The Electrical World, January 27, 1897

President-Elect McKinley Starts a Train by Electricity

President-elect McKinley pressed a button in his library in Canton, O., transmitting thereby a current of electricity through a Western Union wire, which opened the throttle-valve of Erie engine No. 1058. This started the largest train ever run, consisting of 161 cars loaded with salt from the Worcester Salt Company, Silver Springs. The total weight of salt was 5,000,000 pounds, consisting of over 14,000 barrels and over 10,000 sacks.

The New York Times, January 7, 1897

Worcester Salt Special

SILVER SPRINGS, N.Y., Jan. 6 – One hundred and sixty cars loaded with 5,450,000 pounds of salt left here to-day, consigned to New England firms. The train was the Worcester Salt Special, bearing a consignment of orders to New England, which had been contingent upon President McKinley’s election.

The vast shipment made up the finest freight train ever put together. The cars were handsomely decorated with vari-colored banners. The train will go over the Erie Railroad to Jersey City and thence by the Consolidated Road to Boston.

A large crowd gathered about the train, and as it started there was great cheering. The first section was attached a private car for representatives of the press and officials of the Worcester Salt Company.

The shipment contains 14,222 barrels packed with salt in bags and bulk, and 10,774 sacks not in barrels. If the barrels in the train were placed standing one on top of the other, the most elevated barrel would be over six miles high.

http://hdl.huntington.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16003coll4/id/1531

Excerpt from Advertising & Selling magazine (1912)

When the Worcester Salt Company began to do business the bulk of the salt used in this country was imported. Consumers were in a state of indifference as to what brand they used; the product itself was so common it aroused scant interest. Users accepted what the grocers gave them without question, content in the belief that “salt was salt.”

This being the existing condition, it lay within the power of the Worcester Salt Company to do one of two things. Either they might slip quietly into the market with their new brand and take their share of business, or they might enter the field in such a manner as to command the widest attention and focus all eyes on their product by the very boldness of their methods. The first method would mean a modest slice of the cake, with the bulk of the business still going to imported salt; the latter way had as its reward “getting the jump” on American manufacturers and putting a high-grade American salt on the map where everybody would see it and link the name “Worcester” to one of the most common and necessary products in daily use.

In those early days it was not possible to get this attention through magazine advertising; the great national publications with their “two million circulation” had not arrived. While it is true that the company did enter into some early magazine advertising, it was other and more strenuous methods which brought Worcester Salt before the public.

What the Worcester Salt Company desired more than anything else was to make a big and lasting impression on consumers, grocers and jobbers; and it can be truly said that Worcester Salt was put on the map through the medium of the railroad. As railroad train advertising (an expression coined for want of a better term) has been more or less an untouched subject, it will be interesting to learn just how and to what extent this company made use of it.

Railroad train advertising as employed by the Worcester Salt Company ran from 1897 to 1905. The usual method of “pulling off a stunt” was generally somewhat as follows: A big shipment of salt would be made up at Silver Springs with some city such as Boston as the final destination. These salt trains consisted of as many cars as possible and each car would receive elaborate decorations in the way of flags, streamers, posters, etc., so that the entire train would closely resemble a circus on the move. These Worcester Salt Specials, as they were called, ran on a carefully prepared schedule arranged so that the train ran only during the daytime and laid over at night.

The advance press agent work played a big part in the success of the scheme. Every town through which the train was to pass was visited, and the story of the coming remarkable trainload of Worcester Salt was spread through every possible channel. Posters were stuck up announcing the exact time the train was scheduled to pass through the town. Store cards announcing the event were placed in grocers windows and the newspapers were informed as to the coming event. Very often invitations would be extended to dealers to come in a body and view the train from a grand-stand or other point of prominence, and the ever present “small boy” carried home glowing accounts of “the big train of 219 cars -- count ‘em.” The result was that the newspapers gave space to the happening as news, and when the train pulled in, the town took an hour to go down to the railroad and see it pass. Souvenir buttons were thrown to the crowd from the cars and excitement ran high. Often it happened that the leading grocer or dealer in the town had a shipment coming in on the “Worcester Salt Special,” in which case he became an important individual and the center of enviable attraction, bearing the honor with due modesty and sharing in the increased business that came his way later. Thus the great train of salt cars passed from town to town, dropping cars here and there, and leaving behind it a trail of free newspaper write-ups and an impression worth every cent of the cost. Consumers who had always looked upon salt as salt began to talk Worcester Salt and to ask for it by name at their dealer's or grocer's. Housewives remembered the Worcester Salt Special and out of curiosity perhaps asked for it over the counter. Jobbers were impressed with the size of the company and stocked up.

That the old salt trains made a lasting impression is proved by the following incident: Only last summer a member of the company stopped over night, while on an automobile trip, at a small country hotel in Vermont. Like many proprietors of country inns, this one was a bit inquisitive and made it a point to find out his guest's business. Learning that the gentleman across the ledger was connected with the Worcester Salt Company he beamed all over. “I’ve seen lots of your trains go through here,” he said. And on this same automobile tour, any number of dusty, fly-specked banners hanging in country grocery stores bore witness to the fact that their owners had at one time pulled them off a Worcester Salt Special.

[Euclid]

wanswheel,

That is a pretty big train for 1897.  It says it was 161 cars and 2500 tons of salt.  At an estimated empty car weight of 25 tons, plus the load, that would total 6525 tons for the train. I see the first engine is a 4-6-0, and there are five engines distributed throughout the train, including the lead engine.  So that would be 32.2 cars per engine. 

The illustration is very nice, and the colors in the foreground of the landscape are gorgeous.