Trains.com

Film crew death

53519 views
495 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 24, 2017 4:39 PM

Euclid
I seem to recall somebody here saying that there was no emergency until the last few seconds when the bed fell back onto the track.

I said the engineer perhaps realized the real danger only when the bed fell back.

If they had left the bed and ran for their lifes there is real good chance nothing but great schock might have happened. Perhaps the train crew expected this to happen. But they decided differently.

The film crew wasn't informed that they were trespassing so they never considered any emergencies.
Regards, Volker

  • Member since
    April 2017
  • 16 posts
Posted by Bobkat525 on Monday, July 24, 2017 8:00 PM
Kind of degenerated into a question similar to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin," hasn't it?
  • Member since
    August 2009
  • 322 posts
Posted by BLS53 on Monday, July 24, 2017 8:41 PM

Mr. Klepper--Everything you say about Miller is true, it's that your suggested legal solutions don't follow logic. First of all, you seem to have some confusion between criminal and civil law. Miller has already been charged, convicted, and served time. If CSX had wanted to include it's own criminal charges against Miller, it should have done it when the original charges were filed. But, such additional charges would be iffy. I'm not an attorney, but from what I can find, there's no criminal statutes concerning interfering with and endangering train crews. The closest I can find is the federal law concerning interfering with flight crews. I suppose in a broad application of the law, it could be applied to all operators of commercial transit. It hasn't been though, as aviation has certain unique characteristics that don't apply to surface transportation.

If the law is extended to railroaders, next in line is the truckers, cab drivers, ferries, etc. So we get to the point that all commercial transit is protected in a way that we protect emergency vehicles and other operators of high priority movements.

I don't know what else you want done with Miller. They aren't going to re-arrest him. The court has already spoken. He served a year in jail, with 10 years probation, and is barred from working in the film industry. My guess is the civil judgment already squeezed as much as they can out of Miller's bank account.

Avid railfans and railroaders, often have a very pro railroad bias, that extends to their world view. That is not necessarily the view of the public and the legal system.

My thoughts are that this accident and subsequent legal actions, are far more of a concern to many of the participants in this thread, than they are to CSX. Such accidents are quite numerable. This one is high profile because it involved the film industry. While the details usually don't involve movie props and film industry workers, the end result of railroad trespass involving personal injury and death are the same. These incidents are frequent enough, that I believe the railroads see the civil judgments as a cost of doing business. A cost much cheaper than securing their property from trespass the way other large corporations and government entities do. 

 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:15 AM

BL:  Thanks for a thorough summary of the situation.  As I noted with respect to the bus stop tragedy, I essentially learned this lesson yesterday morning, with the bus stop tragedy an extreme case of what you are discussing.  The transit authority obviously did not sue the drunk driver, which is a possible analogy for CSX suing Miller.

I appreciate your precision in laying out the legal situation in the USA so clearly.   Is Canada similar, identicle?

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Virginia
  • 78 posts
Posted by GREG HODGES on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:54 PM

I have culled through these 485 comments , and while not reading each one, feel that words spoken (typed ?) by "Norm" make, by far, the most sense....."simply a sympthetic jury awarding the agrived settlement money.....

Several terms also come to mind:

  "Ambulance chasers"

  "Deep Pockets

  "Tort reform"

Cheers.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • 322 posts
Posted by BLS53 on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:51 PM

daveklepper

BL:  Thanks for a thorough summary of the situation.  As I noted with respect to the bus stop tragedy, I essentially learned this lesson yesterday morning, with the bus stop tragedy an extreme case of what you are discussing.  The transit authority obviously did not sue the drunk driver, which is a possible analogy for CSX suing Miller.

I appreciate your precision in laying out the legal situation in the USA so clearly.   Is Canada similar, identicle?

 

I can't speak for Canada, and as for the US, my views are strictly those of a layperson with an interest in the law. I try to stay objective and look at these cases in relation to how the legal system works. Most decisions by courts are based upon decisions in previous cases. Right or wrong, when someone gets injured or killed, everyone involved in some way is going to end up being a defendent in a civil suit. Big corporations like CSX know this, and consider it a cost of doing business. If trespass cases were that important to the RR's, they would make their property more difficult to breach. That cost would exceed what they pay out in judgments, so they leave their ROW's and equipment unsecured and deal with the court cases.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • 322 posts
Posted by BLS53 on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 11:06 PM

GREG HODGES

I have culled through these 485 comments , and while not reading each one, feel that words spoken (typed ?) by "Norm" make, by far, the most sense....."simply a sympthetic jury awarding the agrived settlement money.....

Several terms also come to mind:

  "Ambulance chasers"

  "Deep Pockets

  "Tort reform"

Cheers.

 

The situation involving lawsuits affects some industries much more than it does the RR's. Freight RR's actually have an advantage in that they don't deal directly with consumers.

The legal system has almost decimated the general aviation/small aircraft industry. Everytime there's an accident, regardless of weather, pilot error, etc., the aircraft manufacturer ends up paying the tab. They did end up getting a statute of limitations passed based on aircraft age that has limited the lawsuits to some extent. 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 2 posts
Posted by Dschick1 on Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:04 PM
Do you know John Miller? Do you know John Miller?
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, September 25, 2017 10:21 PM

Dschick1
Do you know John Miller? Do you know John Miller?

Do You?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • 707 posts
Posted by tdmidget on Monday, September 25, 2017 10:46 PM

Everyone who has posted in this thread knows this John Miller better than you, Daniel.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: US
  • 591 posts
Posted by petitnj on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:52 AM

A pilot crashed here in the Twin Cities and NTSB blamed it on pilot control of the plane. The jury didn't see that and was swayed by a questionable expert who claimed the fuel pump was faulty. (The expert had never evaluated fuel pumps.) Lycoming was found guilty for the fuel pump and ordered to pay $27M. The pilot lived but lost a foot. A judge just overturned this award after exposing the expert as a fraud becuase the pump had worked flawlessly for 300 hours prior. Another example of our legal system designed to make lawyers and clients rich. 

The verdict in the CSX case will be overturned by further courts, but is an example of a system out of control. 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:32 AM

Dschick1
Do you know John Miller? Do you know John Miller?
 

Dschick1,

From your profile:

 

"West coast member of O gauge train clubs.  I favor SP, WP, MP,and eastern road names. Seeking members who have been fraudulently rodeo of their trains by John Miller, Folsom, CA and SanDiego, CA"

 

Who is John Miller and what does he have to do with this thread?

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:35 AM

Ambulance Chaser ...

https://www.millerinjury.com/

 

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy