Hello all,
I am new to all of this railroading lingo and would like to learn all that I can. I am currently a student at a university in Texas and plan on working in the railroad industry when completed. I am a Air Force veteran of 8 years and would like to know what would be the best role to apply for when putting my resume together. I love working outdoors with little indoor work and my desire is to apply for a leadership or management role. Can you help me? Thank you!
Best to ask that question at Human Resources at a given railroad...or if you know railroaders, especially management level...trainmaster and above. You say you like out doors but beyond management or leadership you don't indicate your area of interest: operations, track and signals, bridges and structures, mechanical, locomotive, equipment, etc. So understand the various jobs and duties, find out what they are and talk about them with HR/personnel. That' will also help guide you in your studies...
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Anjay01, welcome to the world of railroading !
I wish you well in your search for position that best suit you and your employer.
Also, please continue looking into the world of railroading as the Trains forums present it as you are able to take time from your studies. Do not hesitate to ask questions, for we are glad to share such information as we have. You will find that there is great variety in the contributors to these forums, including both present and former employees of railroads, and many, such as I, who have never turned a time slip in.
Johnny
Railroad careers can be rewarding both in income and the personal satisfaction of doing something you enjoy; and doing it with people who share your attitude and goals. Several contributors to this site have been or are currently associated with the railroad business and its operations. As you develope specific questions you have a very good chance to get good advice at this site.
It is my belief that contributors here who have retired, as have I, would do it all again. That my friend is one of the most telling attributes of the opportunities and rewards that await those who work hard and smart. Good luck!!
I'm sure that some railroad will welcome you into the ranks of management directly after your training for such a career in college. My advice: don't do it!Go right into management, I mean. Start from the ground up in whatever department you choose, and earn your stripes. Management that is hired "off the street" is often looked upon with disdain by the agreement employees, who will be more likely to work with someone they know, and who knows the business and what has to be done to move the freight (or passengers or whatever). I'm sure that you think (or know) that you're the kind of guy who will do well in a management position. I became a yardmaster three years after I hired out, and I was neither enjoying or being enjoyed. My weight was at its lowest and my stomach was at its most ulcerated during that time. I found that being out where some work was being done, doing my job to the best of my ability (and making other folks' jobs easier because of some unique aspects of my abilities), suited me fine. As for the management, it fell into two groups fairly quickly: the troubleshooters and the troublemakers.I was a railroad enthusiast before, during, and after my career. And I would never discourage anyone from at least trying railroading as a career; it has a mystique all its own. I had a high-profile job for one that wasn't in management, and made a name for myself at it (I know, from the many people who have said this, that my talents are missed). I'm not a "people person", and it wasn't always easy to get along with everyone. But not all ladders are meant to be climbed...I found my spot and enjoyed the view from there (the job I had couldn't have been more tailor-made for me!). So yes...do learn about railroads, do get yourself hired, and do get your feet wet! If you are doing what you love, you'll love what you do, regardless of whether it's what you originally planned on doing.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
The major railroads all have recruiting efforts at major universities. Check with your university's placement office or go to the railroad's website. I know the UP has a lot of recruiting info on their website.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
A lot depends on what you want to do, work with the trains, or work in an office.
If you go straight from school into management, you will never line a switch or ride the locomotive, you will be in the office most of the time…the closest you could get to hands on railroading would be a train master position, which is pretty much low man on the totem pole management wise.
On the other hand, if you want to learn railroading as a skill, before you move up, then apply for the operating craft.
Before you consider any of this, decide if you want to go home every night to the same home and bed, or if living out of a backpack and a suitcase, staying at a different place every night sounds more like it.
The reason is simply…if you join a Class 1 as management, you will be transferred all over the place the first few years, from one end of the system to the other, so…
And if you join a Class 1 in the operating department, the same applies, in pool service or riding the extra board, the odds of getting home more than once a week are rare.
There are 3 major classes of railroads…
Class 1 roads, the “big” railroads, UP, BNSF CSX, NS, and KCS, plus the Canadian roads.
Check out their system maps, you’re talking about a lot of ground to cover, and you will will be in your early 50s before you end up in a permanent residence.
Class 2 roads, which are local or regional roads, odds are with a local you get home most nights, with a regional, 3 to 4 times a week.
Class 3 roads, terminal and switching railroads, (I work for one, the PTRA) and I go home every night, have assigned works days with regular hours and regular days off.
At all three classes, management are salaried employees, nonunion, and most entry to mid-level managers, no matter what position, are on call 24/7…you can work 16 to 20 hour days on a regular basis.
The benefits are some type of profit sharing as a bonus, some offer performance bonus, and of course you have a certain amount of authority.
Draw backs are the same as if you worked as a mid-level manager at, say IBM, (I’ve Been Moved), you still have upper management looking over your shoulder, overriding you, and you belong to the company.
On the other hand, the operating crafts, switchman, brakeman, conductor and engineer, plus the MOW crafts, are for the most part union jobs.
The benefits are you work under a union contract, pay is pretty good, insurance is pretty good, you learn how trains work, and the nitty gritty why trains do what they do, for the most part you are your own boss, you are expected to be self-sufficient and able to think on your feet, and they pay you to play with big trains!
Management and hands on operation rarely, if ever overlap, management doesn’t touch the trains, operating folks rarely make the “big” decisions, and each has its own unique drawbacks and each also has its advantages.
If management is really your goal, keep this in mind.
At the big railroads, there are a hundred MBAs out there ahead of you already, you will start at the low end, and really have to put in the time and the grind before your turn comes up, at the local and regional railroads, you will have to deal with management that is often family, or close business partners, but the chances of quicker advancement are also greater, and you get home more often, at a class 3 road, you go home at the end of your shift, but you may have to work seriously long shifts, and be pretty much a jack of all trades management wise.
Last, as with most major companies, management at railroads has a lot of really big egos, there will be turf wars, and all the politics that go with that, professions management skill is a part, but not the determining factor to advancement, and at class 2 and 3, if the big boss gets the boot, his “team” often goes with him.
The operating classes are more fun, less ulcers, but not quite as profitable.
I concur with Carl on this….if you want to be a good manager, start in the operating craft and learn the “trade” first, the information you garner will be invaluable to you if and when you become management, you will have a firm grip on what can really be accomplished in real world terms.
Most railroads, no matter what class, will promote to management from the operating crafts if you have the degree needed, the national union contract requires them to offer entry level management positions on an open basis to all who wish to apply, including the operating crafts and if you have experience “on the ground” that will be a plus.
Advancement in the operating crafts at union shops is based on seniority, the day you mark up for work is your seniority date, any one hired after you will always be “behind” you in the pecking order for jobs, the longer your there, the more “whiskers” you have and the better jobs you can hold.
Again, the bigger the railroad, the longer advancement will take, a Class 1 may have you in pool service for several years, a Class 2 not as much, and a Class 3 can offer fast advancement depending on the retirement rate and normal attrition, I started 17 years ago at the last spot on a 342 man roaster, and now I am number 20, there are not too many jobs I can’t bid on and hold.
Again, I would suggest you start in the operating craft before management, this will give you the knowledge edge on the other managers…the drawback is you lose that time in the office "rat race” but having the real world knowledge to make better wiser decisions will help advance you faster than just putting in the office grind time.
What degree are you working at, and when will you be done?
Reason is in operating crafts, all classes of railroads are hiring now, the locals and class 3 roads had a lot of guys retire in the last few years…my little road did three hiring classes of 20 plus each group in the last year, and have two more planned for 2014, plus several engineer classes, so advancement in these crafts is going quick.
23 17 46 11
Anjay02I love working outdoors with little indoor work and my desire is to apply for a leadership or management role.
While trainmasters do have to do testing on crews and the occasional train ride, they do spend a lot of time in the office as well. And if you do get promoted one step above, then just about all your time is going to be office-bound.
Now there are also other sides of the railroad, too. MOW (maintenance of way - fixing track), C&S (communication and signals), mechanical dep't (fixing the engines and cars), and also the various other departments that are found in other industries (HR, IT, etc)
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I agree with Edblsard in his great analysis of railroad jobs. If you hire on in a management program most class 1 lines will put you in the field for a year or so training program to let you see how the railroad works. This is a great way to see all aspects of railroading. The great point of this is you get to see all types of jobs. Who knows. The job you think you want today may be the last thing you want after the training program and a job you never considered may be what you really desire. Best of luck in your rail;road career. A few universities are now offering degrees in Railroad Engineering (not train driving, but engineering design) and the grads from these schools are in high demand by the railroads. Good luck in your job plans
Whether you start in a management or agreement position is your choice. There are paths either route.
Starting in the ranks is no guarantee you will get to management. If you definitely want to end up in management, starting in management gives you a 100% chance.
Starting in the ranks is no guarantee you will be a good manager. I have met great managers who were never in the ranks and I have met horrible managers who had been in the ranks. What determines if you are good manager is you.
There is about a 5-10 year window of opportunity to get into management on a major railroad. Over the last 30 years the major railroads underwent a huge number of mergers. As a result they reduced hiring for a couple decades. That put a huge bubble of managers who have been reaching retirement age for the last decade or so. There is about 5-10 years of that bubble left. If you wait 10 years to get into management, the hiring will be stabilized and the retirements will have evened out to something closer to normal.
The good news is if you have military experience, railroads tend to be very military friendly (the UP is consistently voted one of the most military friendly companies in the US). In your interview give examples of how what you learned in the military can be applied to the railroad operations (standard processes, rules compliance, auditing performance, safety, safety, safety, safety, etc). And by the way how you dealt with safety. Be able to describe how you participated as part of a team to solve a problem. Be able to describe how you resolved a conflict between personalities. HOW you resolved the issue, the process to resolve the problem or conflict is more important than the problem itself.
Good luck.
I believe Ed is right on target. Several years ago a Class I hired a new track supervisor off the street. He was feeling his way around for a year or so, spending as much time in the field as possible and learning from the track foreman. He eventually decided he'd be more valuable to the railroad if he had more practical experience. He opted to work the crafts for a couple years before returning to management.
Norm
You might want to enter through the Railway Supply Industry. I took that route in 1950 after graduating from Penn State in Mechanical Engineering and never regreted it. I joined WABCO (now WABTEC) and got 13 weeks of training in air brake technology before entering the work force. I then worked in Engineering, rising to a management position before mvoing to the manegment side of marketing. Left briefly to serve as Program and Enginering manager for the engineering and manufacture of six Highspeed Trubine Trains. Returned to WABCO where I retired in 1986 as a Dividion General Manager. After retirement I formed a consulting firm providing support to the Railway Industry for an addional 15 years. This career path exposed me to both mainline railroading and transit. It was often challenging.but always interesting..
i worked for over 38 years in mow. i liked working for someone who had experience to be the boss. new guy coomes in without any and the track foran had to show them what to do
ccltrains A few universities are now offering degrees in Railroad Engineering (not train driving, but engineering design) and the grads from these schools are in high demand by the railroads. Good luck in your job plans
I'm curious how those programs are faring (retention wise). Seems to be a lot of railfans signing up for them right off the bat... just wondering if they are too star-struck by the "railroading" part to realize that they are studying engineering.
dehusmanStarting in the ranks is no guarantee you will be a good manager. I have met great managers who were never in the ranks and I have met horrible managers who had been in the ranks. What determines if you are good manager is you.
But there is NO substitute for someone who is:
a) a great manager
and
b) has actual experience on the ground.
Those people know what it takes to do a job, understand the work on a level that books and the occasional "road trip" will never teach them, and also know when a crew is being truthful or is feeding you a line of BS.
Sad part is most ground guys don't want the pay cut to start out as a manger. You'll most likely be managing people with better pay, benefits and hours than you have. Or at least until you move up a level or 2, but there's only so many positions available for promotion. And it sometimes seems the best people are frequently passed over for one reason or another.
PS - I'm not saying ground guys always make the best managers, or that someone fresh off the street can't be a great manager. Just saying the combination of a. and b. is the holy grail.
PPS. But don't let us stop you. It's your life.
Zug, what you say about pay cuts can hold true in almost any industry. Management people are paid so much to get the job done, even if they have to work twenty hours a day, whereas those paid by the hour are paid for the time they put in.
Deggesty Zug, what you say about pay cuts can hold true in almost any industry. Management people are paid so much to get the job done, even if they have to work twenty hours a day, whereas those paid by the hour are paid for the time they put in.
Sometimes it is good not to be the boss.
zugmann I'm curious how those programs are faring (retention wise). Seems to be a lot of railfans signing up for them right off the bat... just wondering if they are too star-struck by the "railroading" part to realize that they are studying engineering.
When I learned that one of my friends on an aviation forum was a BNSF employee he was quick to point out he was a signal engineer.
zugmann Deggesty Zug, what you say about pay cuts can hold true in almost any industry. Management people are paid so much to get the job done, even if they have to work twenty hours a day, whereas those paid by the hour are paid for the time they put in. Sometimes it is good not to be the boss.
I'm in trucking, but I'm sure the same holds true for rail. Get that college degree AND five years of experience before considering a management position. Transportation is a very hands on business, and unless you have the real world experience to go along with the degree, you will have difficulties in a leadership or management function because you simply won't have the knowledge to make intelligent decisions much less lead people who can do jobs that you can't.
I would also strongly recommend picking up a second language, if you haven't already done so. Spanish might be more useful than Latin. Funny story: I started my transportation career working for a large American trucking company that had opened a terminal in Montreal. Although I had completed college, I started out as a dock hand on the third shift (economy was bad back in 88). Within 8 weeks I was promoted to terminal manager, ahead of several people who were infinitely more qualified than I. Why? I was the only hire who could speak and write French! No kidding... being able to speak another language got me promoted from 9 bucks an hour to $65000 a year in two months...and I had a couple of none too happy MBAs reporting to me!
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