Turn left at the first stop and go light.

[henry6]

No derailment. No accident. No injuries. No deaths. No official report from an investigative agency.  SEPTA and Amtrak, especially Amtrak, will investigate but not for public hearing.  It will take a sharp and alert railfan to catch the story and report back to us...'cause we want to know.

[Deggesty]

Kyle

Does anyone here remember how the news doesn't say the whole story, and the reporters leave out key things.  At least this reporter isn't as bad as the ones that say "the train did not swerve to avoid ...." There might be more to the story.

Hmm, it seems that the train swerved onto the wrong track?

[narig01]

BaltACD

jeffhergert

That darn CAD.

Jeff

CADS is a tool.  Just like a hammer or a screwdriver.  It is as good or bad as the person using the tool.  High powered tools can do more wrong quicker than low powered tools.

[narig01]

(Continued)

Some computer programmers are garbagemen, garbage in garbage out.

What does that make the dispatcher?

Thx IGN

[zugmann]

BaltACD

I doubt that there will ever be a 'official report' concerning the incident released to the public.  This will be handled under the carriers employee discipline procedures and that will be the end of it.  Nobody was injured or killed; HAZMAT was not involved and was not spilled, no communities were evacuated. 

As police are known to say 'Nothing to see here, move along'!

Wonder if the crew will put in for a penalty day (used off route?)

[Phoebe Vet]

samfp1943

jeaton

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53607778

 

AND JUST WHEN YOU THINK THAT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE..

   .FROM THE WORLD OF WEIRD STUFF,      " WHY'D THEY DO THAT ?"  Desk .

This happened in Wichita yesterday...."...Boeing jet lands at Jabara Airport"

link to story@

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Boeing-jet-lands-at-Jabara-Airport-232781081.html

or here @ http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/21/21559785-giant-boeing-747-freighter-lands-at-wrong-kansas-airport   

Elizabeth Cory with the Federal Aviation Administration in Washington tells KAKE News a Boeing 747 LCF Dreamlifter landed at Jabara around 10:20 Wednesday night. Statements from the city of Wichtia confirm the cargo plane was heading for McConnell Air Force Base.

It's not clear if the jet landed at Jabara by mistake, or for some other reason. Cory says the F.A.A. will investigate that deviation from schedule. But radio transmissions posted online suggest the crew thought it landed at Beechcraft..."

  They are now having to deal with the issue of a runway that is 3 to 4 thousand feet shorter than the runway used at McConnell  AFB for this aircraft.

Twitter pic @ pic.twitter.com/iGQpMfwIFB

   Seems that Amtrak is also not immune to a level of " Pilot Error" as well. 

11/22/2013...The rest of the story   

    @ linked: http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/boeing-dreamlifter-lands-at-jabara/-/21054266/23081256/-/oma90hz/-/index.html

The ":Dreamlifter" is a modified 747 with a Cargo area of 65,000 sq ft.  Normally uses consideralbly more runway that was available for yesterday's take of (5100 ft runway) The crew took it off using 4500 ft of runway...Normally it uses about 7000 ft to lift off..    It was a sort of media circus around this event yesterday.. I guess that gettting the Amtrak train back to the tracks where it was supposed to be was nowhere near the event this wrong landing created around here.

I've seen that happen before.  In New York, the Dutchess County airport is in the flight path to the primary runway at Stewart International.  Transient pilots, flying non precision approaches into Stewart, while surprised to find it several miles sooner than they expected, have landed at the MUCH smaller Dutchess.

[Norm48327]

Happens much more frequently than you hear about. Seldom is a commercial plane involved but when there is it makes the news.

The biggest trap for pilots is another airport in the approach path to the one they intend to land at.

Lots of chatter on the aviation forums regarding this.

[samfp1943]

Norm48327

Happens much more frequently than you hear about. Seldom is a commercial plane involved but when there is it makes the news.

The biggest trap for pilots is another airport in the approach path to the one they intend to land at.

Lots of chatter on the aviation forums regarding this.

              To what Norm 48327 wrote and Phoebe Vet also said... These are not necessarily infrequent occurrences in the Aviation business.  The 747 LCF  that landed wrong here was out of Italy via New York ( the Crew is a Contract Crew from Atlas Air of Purchase,NY.)     The Jabara Airport is  9 miles North of McConnell's runway and is more or less inline with Beech Aircraft 'Company Strip, and then Jabara.. The 747 Pilot thought he had landed at Beech's Field.   All three runways are more or less in a line.  The ATC Conversations were on the Net as of yesterday. indicated that the Pilot thought his location was at Beech.  They had to bring in another crew to get the aircraft out of Jabara and to McConnell.. It was kind of an interesting show, and they got it reloaded and out of town pretty quick after deliver at Boeing.

   

[Sunnyland]

Retired BNSF engineer that I'm friends with said they were supposed to wye the train for some reason, the overshot the wye and kept on going.  I'd say the crew would be at fault there, but what do I know???

When they realized their mistake, they should have notified dispatch ASAP and get it straightened out, not just keep on going. Sounds like they didn't know the area very well either. 

[BaltACD]

Sunnyland

Retired BNSF engineer that I'm friends with said they were supposed to wye the train for some reason, the overshot the wye and kept on going.  I'd say the crew would be at fault there, but what do I know???

When they realized their mistake, they should have notified dispatch ASAP and get it straightened out, not just keep on going. Sounds like they didn't know the area very well either. 

All of which point to a bigger problem - a crew that WAS NOT QUALIFIED operating on the territory.  Having a unqualified crew (or a best minimially qualified) is management problem more than it is a crew member problem.

A qualified crew on their territory should know all control points well enough to know the limits they are permitted to operate.

[Deggesty]

Does SEPTA now have the floor to ask, "Who let an unqualified crew onto our territory?"

[BaltACD]

Deggesty

Does SEPTA now have the floor to ask, "Who let an unqualified crew onto our territory?"

Most certainly!

[henry6]

More importantly the public should be on state asking the question of every crew of every train on every railroad.  I've been aboard trains listening to the engineer gab on her cell phone almost continuously, have seen conductors or trainmen in vestibules texting or otherwise staring into a cell phone, asked questions of train crews and gotten answers that they couldn't answer because they'd never been on this train or this line before.  I've also have a friend who owns a drug testing company who had to battle crews and supervisors both who worked against him in being able to get legal samples and tests.   I know railroads are not alone when it comes to any of these employee and supervisory problems, but it is the one business we come in direct contact with the most.

[jeffhergert]

Henry, I hope it hasn't been too recent about those railroader's use of cell phones or if it was, that they weren't on duty.  Big no-no now except under certain circumstances.

I've been called, both when a conductor and as an engineer, to pilot others who haven't worked a line in the last allotted time requirement.  (It used to be 6 months, but has been upped to 1 year except for lines with more challenging characteristics, like heavy grades)  An engineer is supposed to pilot other engineers, but one of my last trips as a conductor, the caller said I had a student brakeman and was going to pilot my engineer in Council Bluffs yard.  He hadn't been into that terminal in a few years.  Of course, that day they take us into part of the yard that I hadn't been in too much myself.  A car about 30 deep picked a switch point and we put 4 cars on the ground. 

That day, I got to meet our superintendent.  No, we weren't taken out of service.  He had driven out to see what had happened.  The derailment was blamed on a bad switch point, we didn't even have to take the whiz quiz.  All we did was put the rest of the train away, cab to Fremont and tie-up.

Jeff

[Deggesty]

Henry, that engineer had apparently had never it impressed upon her that when she was engaged in the work to do, she was on company time, not hers (I assume she was talking socially).That seems to be a common failing with people at work these days, what with the ease of communication that we now have. When I was working, it was understood that if I had access to a telephone in connection with my work, it was to be used for work only, unless an extremely unusual case arose. If such a person is caught using company time for personal business, the company is justified in firing such a person for neglect of duty.

[henry6]

The two incidents I mentioned are years apart...the engineer talking on her cell goes back probably ten or so years....the conductor I mentioned, about a month ago.....drug testing incidents were reported to me on a regular basis over the years.  

[John WR]

Henry,  

This recent even gives new meaning to RIDE WITH ME HENRY.  Perhaps it would be possible to offer rides along Manhattan's High Line.  

John

[tree68]

Far too many people believe they can "multitask," and interpret multitasking as being able to do two (or more) things at once.  What it really means is that they can bounce between multiple tasks, but while doing so they devote 100% of their attention to each task as they perform it.  That means the aren't paying attention to the tasks they aren't performing.

And there is a pretty good body of evidence to support that.

[Overmod]

tree68

Far too many people believe they can "multitask," and interpret multitasking as being able to do two (or more) things at once.  What it really means is that they can bounce between multiple tasks, but while doing so they devote 100% of their attention to each task as they perform it.  That means the aren't paying attention to the tasks they aren't performing.

No, that would be 'serial attention'.  And that alone is NOT a favored skill in most business.  Almost anyone can do it; the only 'skill' to be valued is whether they can redirect their 100% focus in a timely fashion, without someone having to 'remind' them.  And that ain't much of a skill; it can be faked rather accurately with an alarm watch or timer, or with reference to some outside influence (radio or television programming being a particularly recognized one)

True multitasking is more like addressing full foreground attention, skill, wisdom, etc. on the immediate task at hand, while retaining both situational awareness and cross-reference with the other tasks under consideration -- and, add to that, the beginning of new tasks, or participation in other tasks, as soon as that becomes necessary.  (Mind you, people like that are not likely to find their favored career niche in engine service! more's the pity...) 

With particular relevance to the present situation, a multitasking person would have readily recognized the out-of-path situation and understood to ask about it.  The operative question then would be 'would they stop the train immediately in doing so' -- which is not as simple as invoking the rules. I won't comment any further on that until the situation is more clear, and assignment of responsibility is more established.

Responding to the unexpected is, among other things, one of the seminal design points that OUGHT to be incorporated in practical PTC.  (As noted, the present version would only have flagged this issue passively and more-or-less circumstantially, whereas an effective version would have caught it as 'flagged' it appropriately, with intelligent follow-up, as soon as the routing had been selected.  And a truly effective version would have advised the crew specifically about a potential routing problem, in English, as soon as the route had been lined (e.g., you're only wying on this segment, so be prepared to change ends as soon as I indicate you're clear of the switch...)

[rcdrye]

NORAC rules in effect for both Amtrak and SEPTA require all crew members to participate in a job briefing when anything out of the ordinary is anticipated.  Every member of the operating crew should have known where to stop.

I can't help but wonder why the engine wasn't simply run around the train at 30th St..  Philadelphia has carmen available to break and make the connections, even if they have to come from the shop area.  Capitolliner Cab cars used to be prohibited from leading in Penn Station in any case.

[gardendance]

Semper Vaporo

Can someone figure out a phonetic spelling of how the local's pronounce "Cynwyd"?

rfpjohn

Kin-wood.

nope, it's Kin-wid
"wood" is how we pronounce the 1st syllable in H2O, as in coulda shoulda have a glassa wooder.

I have yet to meet anybody who knows how to pronounce Wilkes-Barre.

[BaltACD]

tree68

Far too many people believe they can "multitask," and interpret multitasking as being able to do two (or more) things at once.  What it really means is that they can bounce between multiple tasks, but while doing so they devote 100% of their attention to each task as they perform it.  That means the aren't paying attention to the tasks they aren't performing.

And there is a pretty good body of evidence to support that.

Watch episodes of 'Your Bleeped Up Brain' on The History Channel for a idea just how well human beings can focus on multiple things at one time

[henry6]

gardendance

[

I have yet to meet anybody who knows how to pronounce Wilkes-Barre.

Pronounce it just as it is spelled. 

[rfpjohn]

Mr. Gardendance,

I don't know how it should be pronounced, but growing up in the greater Philly area, with relatives and family friends in the area, the only pronunciation I ever heard was "Kin-wood". Maybe someone should alert the locals!

Perhaps the Welsh meaning is "not going to get you to New York".

John

[Overmod]

gardendance

Semper Vaporo

Can someone figure out a phonetic spelling of how the local's pronounce "Cynwyd"?

rfpjohn

Kin-wood.

nope, it's Kin-wid
"wood" is how we pronounce the 1st syllable in H2O, as in coulda shoulda have a glassa wooder.

I have yet to meet anybody who knows how to pronounce Wilkes-Barre.

As my father's family is from Kingston, I can answer this.

The general pronounciation is like "Wilkes-barr-uh" (with the accent on the first syllable only)

But many of the locals use the long "e" as in Wilkes-barr-eee (still with the accent on the first syllable).  I think of this as similar to how people in Ver-sales, Kentucky, or Callus, Maine pronounce, or torture, their place names...  ;-}

For a real puzzler, you should try Montpelier.

(The issue with 'Cynwyd' as a telephone prefix, interestingly, was one of the cited examples for the telephone company changing from letter prefixes to all numbers (which I remember vividly in the Wilkes-Barre area when we went from BUtler to "28".  Enough people were dialling "KI" when given the number orally that things had to change...

I suspect rjp's "wood" is actually intended to signify a schwa, and not an unusual drift for a trailing "i" in the neighborhood in question... ;-}   It's not the same in any case as the original Welsh, where the "oo" sound would be "w" not "y")

I am interested in something else, now:  where is the 'we' area where people would say "glassa wooder"?  Everywhere I've been that would say "glassa" would follow with something like 'wahdah' -- certainly something without that terminal 'r' -- so this is something new and delightful to me.

[rfpjohn]

And when you are in Delaware, you'd better say "New-ark".

On a family vacation one year, we stopped at an Arby's in Grand Island, NE. When I requested a cup of "wudder" with my meal, the pretty, young farmgirl behind the counter looked at me as though I'd parked my spaceship in the handicapped space! A quick recalculation brought me around to the proper pronunciation of "wadder". My thirst was quenched.

Growing up, we hung up our coats in the "clawset". That was in south Jersey, but I think it came from my father's upbringing in SE PA.

Do you think our wayward Amtrak crew were Classic Trains subscribers and were trying to retrace part of the latest issues' last trip to Reading? If only the track had been left in place, a reverse move at Norris tower could have gotten them to the Trenton cutoff and back to the corridor. Flawed thinking, though. The cab car was bad!

[henry6]

 I don't think they were Classic Trains subscribers at all...their reading skills are in doubt for one thing as they apparently hadn't comprehended the NORAC rules they were supposed to know.  We will probably never know the explanation for what happened as there were no fatalities and no damage to track or train.  Yes, we've blamed the train crew so far...but what about the train dispatchers?  How long did it take them to figure out the train had gone rogue?  Don't tell me it wasn't until the train crew radio'd that had come to the end of track against a bumper block..  Come to think of it, you've got to give someone credit to have read the signals going down to end of track so train was able to stop without ramming into the block...or don't we know that either?