Hey Firelock ---
Sorry. Got my Shearers mixed up. Whether it's Norma or Moira, Mr. Lancaster couldn't hold a candle to either one, and I don't care whether he could dance. But you're right about The Train.
As long as we're on the other side of the pond, how about Sean Connery atop the train in The Great Train Robbery (1978)? He did his own stunts, so that was really him eating all that coal smoke and nearly losing the package that contained his change of clothes. Also from England, The Wrong Box (1966) has a brief section with a very unusual & humorous train wreck. Plus Michael Caine, Peter Sellers, Dudley Moore, Peter Cooke, John Mills, Sir Ralph Richardson, and Nanette Newman. Can't beat it.
Tom
Just remembered another American one that was nothing but foolish fun, and strangely ignored a few years ago when TRAINS did a special article on trains in movies: Ticket To Tomahawk, starring RGS 4-6-0 no. 20, with Dan Dailey & Anne Baxter in supporting roles, was an improbable comedy western, and it was a lot of innocent fun. The railroad scenes certainly don't reflect the realities of real life on the rails, but it's an escapist comedy, so who cares?
By the way, I live in Maryland where I'm close enough to hear a lot of Virginia accents, so I do agree about Martin Sheen's problems in getting that right.
Speaking of Sean Connery, how about those Orient Express scenes from the Bond Film From Russia with Love? While many of the shots are of a low drivered ten-coupled that wouldn't have been heading the OE, There are quite a few shots of high wheeled locomotives streaking by.
Recently, Skyfall was another Bond film with a good dose of trains.
Hi Tom!
Not trying to drift too far off-subject but I'm reminded of something.
When I was in the Marines I was watching a Civil War themed Western with some friends, many of whom were Southerners. When the lead Confederate said something to the Yankee officer on the order of "Suh, this wo-wa will nevah be o-vah!" the Southern boys started laughing uproariously. As they explained it to me the "way to do a southern accent is to figure out the easiest way to say a word, then say it that way. don't force it!"
At any rate, historians believe regional accents had developed by the time of the Civil War, but are a lot more pronounced today then they were in the 1860's. Since he was from Alexandria. Va. and not from the deep South there's a good possibility Lee may not have had much of what we'd consider a southern accent in this day and age.
OK, enough of that. Back to trains.
Wayne
In the movie A League of their Own the passenger train scenes were filmed at the Illinois Railway Museum using the Nebraska Zepher on IRM's mainline.
Hello again, Wayne ---
Southern speech is efficient. Yankee English doesn't have a 2nd person plural, but "y'all" (not "you all") fills that gap very neatly in the Southern vernacular, just as "you'ns" (not "you ones") accomplishes the same goal in Pennsylvania-ese. You can always tell when a Yankee is trying to affect a Southern accent. They use "you all" as the second person singular. And just so we don't get too far off the thread, how many Pennsylvania-based films have "you'ns" written into the script? Probably not many.
I would also suggest that Lee was a relatively well educated man, and his speech was likely closer to the King's English than many of his less privileged Virginia neighbors. In Russia at that time, there were aristocrats who spoke French and knew very little, if any, Russian. Of course, my ideas about Lee's speech are just speculation. I'm not a linguist.
There's a 2 part episode of Laverne & Shirley where they're traveling from Milwaukee to Canada that shows about 5 different trains during the course of the trip. Some like an Amtrak shot weren't even possible during the early 60's setting of the show.
Somebody mentioned the fact that RR's are not the only institutions that get short shrift in the accuracy department. In MIDWAY, Charleston Heston, takes off in one kind of plane, flies to the target in another, and bombs the bejesus out of the enemy in yet another. At least I think that's how it goes. I can't bear to watch that thing again. And I think they were all post-Midway aircraft. There's a battle that cries out for a new film (not a remake of the Heston film). CGI could be used to beautiful effect.
How many postwar tanks were used in the equally disastrous BATTLE OF THE BULGE (1965)?
Similarly in the ads for it a few years ago, the movie Pearl Harbor showed Japanese planes over several destroyers that looked like Spruances. There was no doubt that it wasn't worth seeing and that sealed the deal.
They did some amazing things with models during the 1940's. Was hard to get the movement of aircraft to look convincing but with ships, they did some amazing things back then. Kind of a shame that cheap looking CGI has ended that.
Agree CGI is often pretty bad. But I hold out a lot of hope for it in the future. The PRR Duplex in LEMONY SNICKETT was a sort of Impressionist version of the real thing, and the Berkshire in POLAR EXPRESS wasn't really intended to look 100% real either, but they do show that future Improvements in the technology, if properly applied, could give us a new look at an NYC Hudson or a [fill in your own favorite here] on the big screen.
At last! We've gotten back to RR's in film!
Good catch on That Girl. I never noticed, though I used to watch the series. I think the miscellaneous trains business in that Laverne & Shirley episode was done deliberately.
A movie that gets good points for railroad accuracy is The General with Buster Keaton.
As for military films, well, you have to use what's available. Not too many TBDs survived Midway, and they were scheduled for replacement anyway. (As it happened, a few Avengers did fly in the battle and were slaughtered too.) Japanese planes were in short supply as well. The whole Heston subplot should have been deleted and the movie would have been tighter. It gets even more problematical with ships, but the U.S.S. Lexington (CV-16) was similar to the three American carriers already, and the biggest thing that needed to be done was hide the angled flight deck (from a later rebuild). My brother, a Navy vet, had all sorts of fun pointing out the anachronistic radar equipment in the long shots of ships at Pearl Harbor.
Ditto tanks, German tanks in particular being scarce. (I wonder where they got all those Shermans for A Bridge Too Far.) In The Battle of the Bulge the American tanks were M24 lights, or possibly the updated M41, and the Germans represented by M47s. A few M24s were present in the actual battle. (Things like this were even more glaring in Patton.) This battle cries out for a miniseries based on the book A Time for Trumpets.
To get back on track, pun intended, there is that special issue (can't remember if it's Trains or Classic Trains) that featured 100 train movies. These include The Train (excellent!) and The General.
Although I can't recommend either of these movies (the book stank too, and got much of the railroading wrong), Atlas Shrugged parts 1 and 2 feature a railroad in decline.
Phil
While not a train scene I am quick to recall while reading this thread the obvious "screwup" in the movie "Goofellas" about the mafia in New York in years gone by...the scene in question shows a New York airport and the scene caption states that it is "LaGuardia Airport - 1963" and they then show a shot of two of the movies stars leaning on a 1965 Chevrolet Impala...they MUST have known somebody at Chevrolet in order to take delivery of a 1965 model in 1963!!!!
How's this for a great train film? 1974's "Murder on the Orient Express"? Just perfection, from the interiors to the exterior shots, to the way the steam lcomotive "dances" out of the station in time to the background music. Doesn't get better than that.
As an aside, Lady Firestorm and I saw the film in 1974 while we were dating, both of us being Thirties fans and steam freaks as well. You should have heard her when the opening titles ran: "OH! Look at the Art Deco! It's perfect!"
And just to briefly drift back to what General Lee may have sounded like: Anyone remember a TV series from around 1960 called "The Rebel"? They did an episode called "Surrender at Appomattox". VERY well done by the way, where General Lee was played by George MacCreedy. MacCreedy's very stately speaking voice seemed to me the best approximation of what Lee may have sounded like.
Don't get me started on "Midway." I saw that one when it came out. I knew it was going to be all downhill when I saw Admiral Yamamoto was wearing Viet Nam ribbons!
"Battle of the Bulge"? The high point of that film is the German tankers singing "Panzerlied", although they only sing the first verse over and over, and at a faster beat than the original German version. Makes you proud that the best arraingment of a German song is an American one!
ACY How many postwar tanks were used in the equally disastrous BATTLE OF THE BULGE (1965)?
Many movies made postwar used modern tanks, especially where larger tank forces were needed for the scenes. I can forgive that. The thing I found ironic was in the movie "Patton," the tanks used by the German forces in the North African battle scenes were Patton tanks
Many of the movies mentioned are favorites of mine, even some that have technical inaccuracies and questionable history. Even knowing and accepting that. many still beat the heck out of what comes out of Hollywood now. Anymore, I'm lucky if I see ads for one movie a year that interests me.
Jeff
Jeff ---
Please forgive a blatantly non-railroad comment: I have often said the worst, most regressive developments in cinema history were sound and color. Sound means actors can get away with reciting lines instead of acting. Color allows the producers to amaze us with pyrotechnics and distract us from the fact that the plot is lousy. If anybody doubts this, try watching THE BIG PARADE (1925), directed by King Vidor. I saw it recently & rediscovered how satisfying a well-crafted film can be.
Back to railroads: I remember a black & white film noire with Alan Ladd as a detective in the Northern Indiana/Chicago area, produced around 1948-50. I don't remember the name, unfortunately, but it had several excellent views of NYC L-4 Mohawks in the Gary area. I also have vague recollections of another film (or maybe another part of the same one) that showed an SP cab forward in the Chicago area. I guess those cab forwards must have gotten around!
Sound and color being the worst developments for motion pictures? Well I don't know, they both had to come eventually you know. What matters is what's done with them. As the Thirties wore on and directors and cinematographers got used to the new technology we all know the masterpieces that were turned out, especially when some of the more gifted directors used the new color technology to "paint" pictures on film, if you follow what I mean.
Think Rouben Mamoulian "Blood and Sand", John Ford "Drums Along The Mohawk", Victor Fleming "Gone With The Wind" and "The Wizard of Oz" and you'll know what I mean. By the way, if you get the chance to see "Wizard" on the big screen don't pass it up. Until you seen the wizard that way you you haven't seen it at all.
I haven't been to a movie in a long time. I think the last one I saw was "Master and Commander" and you know that's not too recent.
And don't get me started on that "Pearl Harbor" mess! Lady Firestorm and I went to see it, and two-plus hours later as we were walking out I turned to her and said "Well, do you want to start or should I?" What a wasted opportunity that film was.
Whoops! I forgot Michael Curtiz and "The Adventures of Robin Hood", one of the best films ever made!
Wayne ---
Sure.
I have a bad habit of making general statements for effect, even when I know I'm exaggerating. My point was that vivid color, overwhelming sound, etc. can be, and often are, used as substitutes for craftsmanship. Many of the films I've praised in this thread were color and sound films, and I'm not about to backtrack now and say they were poor films after all. Someone else cited Keaton's THE GENERAL; and I was dead serious when I said THE BIG PARADE was a classic and a work of art. How about the editing artistry of Sergei Eisenstein? Too bad he never made a RR film, at least not that I know of.
I think it was the discontinuation of the production code that did much more harm than talkies and color. While not entirely perfect and sometimes downright restrictive in the oddest ways, it forced creativity and focusing on areas that truly make for a great film.
Suddenly good writers, directors, producers, and actors weren't absolutely necessary and films started to get by with cheap tricks rather than quality. So films like Since You Went Away which screamed quality back in 1944, which while not a train movie still had one of the most memorable scenes involving one in cinema history (The goodbye scene when Robert Walker is leaving on the troop train and Jennifer Jones is running down the platform as it departs), suddenly seemed to become the exception as the production code eroded during the 50's and then died completely.
Thankfully they still manage to beat the odds every once in a while and release something that even a jaded film fan that sticks to mostly the 30's and 40's can enjoy.
Craftsmen know how to use all their tools.
Writing, acting, sound, color, special effects and set design are all individual crafts used by film & video makers who are the ultimate craftsmen in putting it all together to form the finished product we see on the scree or tube.
True craftsmen are rare in any form of activity - film making is no different.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Craftsmen know how to use all their tools. Writing, acting, sound, color, special effects and set design are all individual crafts used by film & video makers who are the ultimate craftsmen in putting it all together to form the finished product we see on the scree or tube. True craftsmen are rare in any form of activity - film making is no different.
Nowadays it has little to do with making a "classic" and everything to do with maximizing the box office. It doesn't matter if people walk out of the movie wholly dissatisfied with what they saw - the point is that they paid the money to get in.
Every now and then we do end up with a truly great movie. And every now and then what is an initial box office flop turns out to be a true legend.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Breakheart Pass with Charles Bronson was filmed in Idaho, the Camas Praire RR with Great Western locomotive 75. Also, if you ever get a chance to get a copy of a Little Rascals DVD with "Railroading" on it, check it out. Lots of actual on location SF rail yard activity.
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