Stourbridge Lion Let's try to keep the topic related to the OP's post and not stray into areas outside of Railroading. Thanks...
Let's try to keep the topic related to the OP's post and not stray into areas outside of Railroading.
Thanks...
The nation's electric utilities are the largest single consumer of coal in the United States. As they switch from coal fired to natural gas fired steam electric stations, their doing so, as I pointed out in my post, will have a major impact on the fortunes of the nation's coal hauling railroads. Without an understanding of how the electric power industry uses coal, the story would be incomplete.
The latest issue of Business Week has an article entitled Coal's Future is Rocky at Best. It reinforces many of the points made in my post. It also contains an encouraging observation by Jack Koraleski, CEO, Union Pacific, who foresees a strong summer for coal shipments. He is referencing shipments overseas of U.S. coal, most of which will be transported to the ocean shipping points by rail.
Restricting posts to only what happens on the train, as opposed to the upstream and downstream activities leading to or from the railroad as a transport solution, is unnecessarily restrictive
chicagorails With most of the coal hoppers used today, they may be converted into grain hoppers by weilding tops onto them. Cause most wont be needed when all the coal power plants will be shut down by 2018.
With most of the coal hoppers used today, they may be converted into grain hoppers by weilding tops onto them. Cause most wont be needed when all the coal power plants will be shut down by 2018.
How would you explain then why Wyoming is on track (mind you that it is May 1) to set a record in coal production this year? Even with some coal plants closing down, providing that the planned coal port gets approved and built, there will ALWAYS be a market for coal especially from the PRB.
zugmann PA is doing a lot of the natural gas/shale thing. Problem is that nat. gas prices are too low, so they aren't drilling very much right now. But believe me, this state has bent over backwards (thanks to our paid for Governor) to "assist" the gas companies. No matter what the laws and regulations are, they do very little to trump global energy costs/and/or supply and demand.
PA is doing a lot of the natural gas/shale thing. Problem is that nat. gas prices are too low, so they aren't drilling very much right now. But believe me, this state has bent over backwards (thanks to our paid for Governor) to "assist" the gas companies.
No matter what the laws and regulations are, they do very little to trump global energy costs/and/or supply and demand.
Actually with gas prices near $2, I would be willing to bet that you will see a lot of coal fired power plants with close access to a pipeline begin converting. Rumor has it that prices near the end of summer may go near $0.00. This is due to an over saturated market, brought on by multiple booms across the country. PA has a boom, but NOTHING like we saw here. The reason they keep drilling even at a loss is because if they do not drill the well after a specified time, usually 3-5 years, they lose the lease and will have to re-purchase it if another company or an environmental group doesn't buy it first. Every producer does it. Most still make a small profit, but one that is the major cause of the over saturation is Chesapeake Energy who has operated at a loss of $3.2 Billion, yes BILLION, last year. The only thing keeping them afloat is the little bit of oil holdings that they have.
So in the end. Coal will still live on but it will move towards export instead of domestic use.
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
http://sweetwater-photography.com/
Anyone what to place bets that in five to ten years there is a round of buyer's remorse at all the power plants converted from coal to natural gas? Don't scrap those hoppers just yet.
rrnut282 Anyone what to place bets that in five to ten years there is a round of buyer's remorse at all the power plants converted from coal to natural gas? Don't scrap those hoppers just yet.
Good point! Fuel diversity is a key to dependable and economic electric energy. If a utility company locks itself into one source, it is likely to become a prisoner of that source in time. And once it is a prisoner, the jailer will dictate the price of the fuel.
WOW, this is news!
Having been in the oil business for 40 years, I pay close attention to the "energy" topic and developments and IMHO have some educated experience in the field.
I can't and won't argue the point that burning fossil fuels is detrimental or not. But I can say that the use of coal is definitely not going away in the forseeable future. The coal fields of the US and elsewhere will be busy pulling those black diamonds out of the ground to fee the insatiable energy use of our world. Period.
Remember, a very large percentage of our electricity comes from coal. And, our resources of coal are huge. The logistics and infrastructure is there, and it ain't going away anytime soon.
Those that "go green" with electric cars "and stuff" sometimes seem to forget that they are powered by an energy source that was sourced by primarily the burning of coal or natural gas or the splitting of the atom. Yes, some electricity is sourced by wind power, but that percentage is minimal.
As far as converting coal hoppers to grain usage............. previous posters have covered that pretty well, and I agree that it is just not economically viable.
Hey folks, the above is not an arguement against clean energy or conservation - as I am all for it. But it is also a realistic look at our world as it is - and will be for the next umpteen years.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Just because coal is abundant and cheap, does not mean it will continue in use for a long time. The whole premise of coal going away has nothing to do with its lack of availability. People say we will never meet the energy demand without coal. But the point of the anti-coal advocacy is that we use too much energy. They have no intention of simply replacing coal with windmills and letting us continue using the same amount of energy. So, while coal may be cheap and plentiful, the anti-coal advocacy has the power to raise the price. That will force us to use less.
The US Energy Information Administration report for 2012 thru 2035 shows that while electric energy generation will increase slightly thru that period, the percentage from coal will decrease only slightly, so the effect is that coal generated kilowatts should remain fairly steady.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/er/executive_summary.cfm
They recently spent $1,000,000,000. That's one Billion dollars to upgrade the scrubbers at the King power plant in Bayport Minnesota. Its one of the several plants that power Minneapolis/St.Paul metro area.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Converting coal hoppers to grain hoppers was economically viable here in QLD AU by using eco-fab roofs which lock on. When we had our last drought most were converted back to coal use with lids sitting in stacks in yards.
James, Brisbane Australia
Modelling AT&SF in the 90s
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