I understand about the clearance issues in Europe, but why aren't there doublestack trains in Russia, Australia, or China? ... Or are there?
Ulrich I understand about the clearance issues in Europe, but why aren't there doublestack trains in Russia, Australia, or China? ... Or are there?
Probably clearance issues in most of Russia since most of the mainlines are wired.
No Intermodal flows of a long enough distance in Australia. East Coast to Perth would be long enough, but Perth isn't that big, they may also have axle loading issues as well.
China is a good prospect, they just don't have enough inland traffic yet, give them a few years.
Here's an Austrailian double stack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmQEdZzra0I&feature=BFa&list=UU3GCnl5aNHpBwmol4hPBVbQ&lf=plcp
Wonder what the passenger cars are for? Maybe the crew stays with the train from origin to destination.
The US has the safest, most cost efficient rail freight system in the world. Canada is on par with the US.
A guess, but I think it might be the Aussie version of the auto train...note the open tri levels and flats a few cars back, none of the cars were the same, as you would expect them to be if they were all headed to a dealer, and the trucks on the flat beds were private truck, note the advertising and such on the box truck....might be the train offers passenger service and taking your car along with you...I know one of their premier passenger trains, the Ghan(sp?) does the Auto Train concept, although it is a vacation train and hauls no freight.
Considering the distances and the lack of major cities in the interior, taking your car with you makes a lot of sense.
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Maybe the rest of the world -- or at least the parts enthused over by passenger train afficianados -- are far, far ahead of us, and have figured out that passenger trains and double stacks don't mix all that well. So they opted for passenger trains.
But.. they can, and do, run single stacks!!
greyhounds Here's an Austrailian double stack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmQEdZzra0I&feature=BFa&list=UU3GCnl5aNHpBwmol4hPBVbQ&lf=plcp Wonder what the passenger cars are for? Maybe the crew stays with the train from origin to destination.
Correct Crew(s) stay with train. Ever tried to live on AU desert. 1 car sleeper and 1 a lounge dinner. What a long route to get route qualified.
Note in the above video some of the double stacks are on flat cars and not wells. Wonder if that makes them taller ?? Anyone ??
Below is an entry from Wikipedia about double stack trains outside of North America. For those who are generally skeptical of Wikipedia, I would say the information source that will point you in a direction for further research (or verification):
Europe has a more restricted loading gauge and train weights so there is no operation of double-stack cars so far.
Since electrification generally predated double stacking, the overhead wiring was too low to accommodate it. Many bridges and tunnels are too low for double-stacking, by far too expensive to rebuild for this reason. However, India is building some freight-only corridors with the overhead wiring at 7.45 m (24.4 ft) above rail, which is high enough.[10] In India (passenger), Pakistan (passenger), Finland, Russia and Kazakhstan, 25 kV AC overhead wiring at 6.5 m (21 ft) above rail.
Many countries, like New Zealand, have numerous low tunnels and bridges, which limits expansion for economic reasons.
There is quite a bit of freight running Sydney/Melbourne thru Adelaide to Perth as well as north to Darwin.
Double stacks are common on those routes as the loading gauges were expanded in the 70's to 80's to cater for this. The tall containers you see on that trains have autos inside them. I'd say 90% of that train in the video was autos or parts.
Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between.
Most of the freight from the east coast moves by rail to WA as it's the most economical, Just about everything moves by rail.
Have a look around on flickr etc there is lots of images of Australia's Rail ops.
Edit - forgot to add some of the well cars in Oz came from the states bought over second hand by CFCLA.
James, Brisbane Australia
Modelling AT&SF in the 90s
james saunders Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between...
Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between...
How does that work? Do the crews rotate? How long is a shift?
MidlandMike james saunders: Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between... How does that work? Do the crews rotate? How long is a shift?
james saunders: Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between...
The crew cars are basically rolling motel rooms. I believe shifts are 12 hours, with the crews swapping wherever the time expires. They basically just sleep until their turn.
james saunders MidlandMike: james saunders: Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between... How does that work? Do the crews rotate? How long is a shift? The crew cars are basically rolling motel rooms. I believe shifts are 12 hours, with the crews swapping wherever the time expires. They basically just sleep until their turn.
MidlandMike: james saunders: Spare crews ride in the passenger cars behind the locomotives as the distances between depots is too far, and its too dangerous and costly to run crew cars. From Melbourne to Perth its over 3400km with not too many sizable towns in between... How does that work? Do the crews rotate? How long is a shift?
To: James Saunders:
Your response about the Crew Cars ( Passenger style Cars on freight trains) in Australia. Sparked the questions about hours of service for Aussie Train Crews, and how they are compensated.
[I don't want to hijack this Thread, and if needed, I'll make another Thread on the subject of Engineer Pay in Australia.]
Some time back we had a Thread here about American Engineer's and how they were compensated by the Organizations they were employed by.
Link:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/143995/1600039.aspx#1600039
I had known there would probably be no easy answer, as pay is tailored to working conditions encountered, time, train size, distances, and so on.
The use of Crew Cars for Engine Crews is kind of an unusual wrinkle in working conditions for trains covering long distances in Australia.
Do Crews work the whole territory? ( I mean from their home terminal to the train's destination, and then return back with another train to their home terminal utilizing the Cre Cars for rest when not driving the train?)
Would an engineer be paid a salary, or some kind of compensation formula using train weights, size of Diesel Locomotive, (with a factor for number of wheels on the track) and time and distance?
I see videos of Operations there with a number of different kinds of engines, and configurations to pull trains of both short and long lengths of trains.
Thanks!
greyhounds Here's an Austrailian double stack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmQEdZzra0I&feature=BFa&list=UU3GCnl5aNHpBwmol4hPBVbQ&lf=plcp Wonder what the passenger cars are for? Maybe the crew stays with the train from origin to destination. The US has the safest, most cost efficient rail freight system in the world. Canada is on par with the US.
Out of all the boxes the train was carrying, I didn't recognize the ownership of any of them except for several Maersk-Sealand. Must be a whole different set of Shipping Lines involved in Aussie trade that is involved in US trade.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Hi Sam,
I'm not sure on the finer details, but as far as I know two crews will work from say Adelaide thru Perth. As you surmised they will have a rest day and then take another train back. I would assume they have an extra day or two off per fortnight to compensate for the gruelling hours. Engineers (drivers in Oz) would be paid roughly $80,000 as a base rate, but it wouldn't be too hard to earn upwards of $100,000 with all the extra time and penalty shifts they do. I know drivers in the mines in northern WA and here in QLD START on $100,000 and go up from there.
The train lengths are pretty standard at around 1400m for interstate freight. As for locomotives Pacific National are the largest private player here in Oz, the drivers will more or less only drive one locomotive - the NR class, with older units consigned to trailing service only. NRs are basically a smaller downsized version of Dash 9's.
Most of the other companies such as QR national are starting to buy newer motive power, but in the recent past could have a 50+ year old EMD bulldog locomotive on the point of an interstate intermodal train.
Hope this helps...
BaltACD - The train pictured was carrying autos/trucks and parts. 99% of the containers on the train stay in Australia, which is why they are mostly marked for Linfox,Toll, FCL, Sadliers, Ceva etc
Linfox is owned by Lindsay fox and he is Australias largest transport player, Toll own the company hauling the freight (Pacific National.) We have alot of European companies in Australia, but I can guarantee (mostly from my line of work, for an importer of bathroom fixtures.) 'K' Line, Tex, Evergreen, GE Seaco, Maersk, Hapag Llyod, Mtsui OSK etc all are major players in what you see around here.
Where I work backs onto Acacia Ridge Intermodal yard, one of the largest in Australia, the interstate trains start/end here and also transload goods to QLD's narrow gauge system.
Hope I've cleared up a few things :)
BaltACD greyhounds: Out of all the boxes the train was carrying, I didn't recognize the ownership of any of them except for several Maersk-Sealand. Must be a whole different set of Shipping Lines involved in Aussie trade that is involved in US trade.
greyhounds:
Looking at the train I saw a lot of what I think are 16m containers. I would suspect there was a considerable amount of domestic freight on that train as a lot of the double stack containers on top were longer than the bottom container.
Thx IGN
james saunders Hi Sam, I'm not sure on the finer details, but as far as I know two crews will work from say Adelaide thru Perth. As you surmised they will have a rest day and then take another train back. I would assume they have an extra day or two off per fortnight to compensate for the gruelling hours. Engineers (drivers in Oz) would be paid roughly $80,000 as a base rate, but it wouldn't be too hard to earn upwards of $100,000 with all the extra time and penalty shifts they do. I know drivers in the mines in northern WA and here in QLD START on $100,000 and go up from there. The train lengths are pretty standard at around 1400m for interstate freight. As for locomotives Pacific National are the largest private player here in Oz, the drivers will more or less only drive one locomotive - the NR class, with older units consigned to trailing service only. NRs are basically a smaller downsized version of Dash 9's. Most of the other companies such as QR national are starting to buy newer motive power, but in the recent past could have a 50+ year old EMD bulldog locomotive on the point of an interstate intermodal train. Hope this helps... BaltACD - The train pictured was carrying autos/trucks and parts. 99% of the containers on the train stay in Australia, which is why they are mostly marked for Linfox,Toll, FCL, Sadliers, Ceva etc Linfox is owned by Lindsay fox and he is Australias largest transport player, Toll own the company hauling the freight (Pacific National.) We have alot of European companies in Australia, but I can guarantee (mostly from my line of work, for an importer of bathroom fixtures.) 'K' Line, Tex, Evergreen, GE Seaco, Maersk, Hapag Llyod, Mtsui OSK etc all are major players in what you see around here. Where I work backs onto Acacia Ridge Intermodal yard, one of the largest in Australia, the interstate trains start/end here and also transload goods to QLD's narrow gauge system. Hope I've cleared up a few things :)
I recall reading that the Aussie Gov't forced Toll to divest itself of Pacific National when they merged with the company they co-owned the Rail carrier with (Patrick)..
PN's current owner is a newly created company called Asciano Ltd.
http://www.asciano.com.au/
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
double stacks are planned for the new railroad that will run from brisbant to emerald queensland to darwin.... IF... it ever gets built.....an interesting thing is that cattle will travel in cattle containers ... boxes with bars... and normal containers will travel on top i read that the railway even plans to have water sprays fitted line side to cool the cattle... the cattle will mainly go to indonesia
regarding pays my friend drives coal trains in australia he gets a good pay but not great for the shifts he works approx $90,000 / year...... i work underground in a coal mine $ 190 / hour x 13hours per day and $1000 / week travel payment ... $ 190 aust is approx $200 american
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