Murphy Siding What is a bottom shelf coupler? What is a brake stick?
Omni Groups "Sidekick" brakestick at: http://www.omnigroupcorp.com/specs.html
http://www.rrtools.com/miscProducts/BrakeStick.asp
http://www.rktoolsandsupplies.com/ "Safstik"
Good images of a bottom shelf coupler are harder to find, but here's a few:
Shaded & colored perspective drawing: http://www.bescoltd.com/images/1312439786.jpg
Photos in this thread: http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=60160
Index page to several engineering drawings: http://www.columbuscastings.com/couplers_yokes.html
Patent drawing: http://www.google.com/patents?id=wq91AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
- Paul North.
Georgia Railroader Murphy Siding: That thing looks pretty heavy to be carrying around all day. Maybe I could make my first million by making a lightweight titinium or carbon fiber brake stick. The ones we have are like the ones in the link from Zug, we use the longer "Standard'' model. They weigh around 5lbs, so yea toting one of these around for 12 hours is a pain but I would much rather do that than to climb up and down cars all day. [snipped - PDN]
Murphy Siding: That thing looks pretty heavy to be carrying around all day. Maybe I could make my first million by making a lightweight titinium or carbon fiber brake stick.
That thing looks pretty heavy to be carrying around all day. Maybe I could make my first million by making a lightweight titinium or carbon fiber brake stick.
The ones we have are like the ones in the link from Zug, we use the longer "Standard'' model. They weigh around 5lbs, so yea toting one of these around for 12 hours is a pain but I would much rather do that than to climb up and down cars all day.
Paul_D_North_Jr One of the links I posted above (evidently I missed all these later posts since I first logged on a while ago) has a brake stick with a magnetic 'button' so you can let the car carry the brake stick along for you instead . . . - Paul North.
One of the links I posted above (evidently I missed all these later posts since I first logged on a while ago) has a brake stick with a magnetic 'button' so you can let the car carry the brake stick along for you instead . . .
You can hook a brakestick to a grabiron. Only problem is that you forget it is there and it gets buried 15 cars deep in a yard track. Or it ends up going to Fort Worth. And they won't let you put in for the "used out of route" penalty.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
About a year ago we had an informative thread here about locomotive cab crashworthiness, after that tragic early Sunday morning (?) BNSF accident in Oklahoma or Nebraska (?) where a coal train rear-ended a stopped MOW equipment move at about 25 MPH, and the rear car jack-knifed or buckled up into and demolished the cab which was then under a highway overpass, etc., and killed both crew members.
While looking for a good bottom shelf coupler illustration for Murphy in my post above, I stumbled across this FRA engineering-type report - I'd say it's 'required reading' for anyone who is interested in this subject, as you'll see (10 pages, approx. 1.5 MB file size in 'PDF" format):
LOCOMOTIVE CRASHWORTHINESS DESIGN MODIFICATIONS STUDY
Published in Proceedings of the 1999 IEEE/ASME Joint Railroad Conference, April 13-15, 1999, IEEE Catalog Number 99CH36340, ASME RTD Volume 16
http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/Research/locsumry.pdf
Paul,
Thanks for finding that link to locomotive crashworthiness. It looks like quite a substantial study. I think I'll print it.
Paul I sometimes use the hook on my brakestick to carry it along during various switch moves. Just dont forget it! The TM will get hot if you go to him for a replacement after yours took a field trip!
zugmann CSSHEGEWISCH: With all due respects to Ed and the other professionals who insist on working safely, I have noticed a few postings in the past complaining that certain safety procedures (especially 3-point protection) unnecessarily slow down operations with the implication that they are not needed. On the other hand, I remember talking with BRC's Mechanical Superintendent who mentioned an in-house barbecue for the shop personnel for their attainment of a safety milestone. He was a stickler for safe operation and was proud of this achievement. The only problem I have with 3-step/red zone is that if can give someone a false sense of security. You should always be prepared for a car to move, and never get yourself in a position* that you can't get in the clear really fast. *- not as easy when you have these mandates for bottom shelf couplers on everything. What a pain.
CSSHEGEWISCH: With all due respects to Ed and the other professionals who insist on working safely, I have noticed a few postings in the past complaining that certain safety procedures (especially 3-point protection) unnecessarily slow down operations with the implication that they are not needed. On the other hand, I remember talking with BRC's Mechanical Superintendent who mentioned an in-house barbecue for the shop personnel for their attainment of a safety milestone. He was a stickler for safe operation and was proud of this achievement.
With all due respects to Ed and the other professionals who insist on working safely, I have noticed a few postings in the past complaining that certain safety procedures (especially 3-point protection) unnecessarily slow down operations with the implication that they are not needed. On the other hand, I remember talking with BRC's Mechanical Superintendent who mentioned an in-house barbecue for the shop personnel for their attainment of a safety milestone. He was a stickler for safe operation and was proud of this achievement.
The only problem I have with 3-step/red zone is that if can give someone a false sense of security. You should always be prepared for a car to move, and never get yourself in a position* that you can't get in the clear really fast.
*- not as easy when you have these mandates for bottom shelf couplers on everything. What a pain.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Lining airhoses can sometimes be a pain with bottom shelf couplers.
Bucyrus - you're quite welcome. I anticipated that you, of all people, would appreciate it the most.
Looking at the suppliers pricing, brake sticks go for nearly $500 a pop. On my division their use is mandatory within terminals. Local terminal bought 100 - had to order more shortly thereafter. Problem with requiring their use - they are never where they are supposed to be when they are needed.
Anecdotal observation - I am seeing more trains flagged outside the terminals for applied hand brakes than I ever have in the past. Couple enhanced hand brake requirements and enthusiastic enforcement of those requirements along with the use of brake sticks and you watch cars slide out of town.
Georgia Railroader Paul I sometimes use the hook on my brakestick to carry it along during various switch moves. Just dont forget it! The TM will get hot if you go to him for a replacement after yours took a field trip!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Problem with requiring their use - they are never where they are supposed to be when they are needed.
Problem with requiring their use - they are never where they are supposed to be when they are needed.
That sounds like people want to use them, but they don't want to carry them around.
$500 per brake stick ?? That sounds like we need some Chinese brake sticks.
Bucyrus That sounds like people want to use them, but they don't want to carry them around. $500 per brake stick ?? That sounds like we need some Chinese brake sticks.
When you are working on a yard ladder, going between switches and couplings, then yeah, they get a little heavy (and awkward) to keep carrying. Especially when you also have to carry a lantern, switch list, and use your remote box at the same time.
And please, no cheap Chinese junk brakesticks. I'd like to get more that 3 uses out of one.
zugmann And please, no cheap Chinese junk brakesticks. I'd like to get more that 3 uses out of one.
So you are saying: "No disposable brake sticks."
Bucyrus zugmann: And please, no cheap Chinese junk brakesticks. I'd like to get more that 3 uses out of one. So you are saying: "No disposable brake sticks."
zugmann: And please, no cheap Chinese junk brakesticks. I'd like to get more that 3 uses out of one.
By rule, they are disposable. Can't use them for more than 2 years.
What I ultimately want is a brakestick that can materialize out of thin air when you need one. Then when you don't need it, *poof*, it's gone. That would be cool.
zugmann When you are working on a yard ladder, going between switches and couplings, then yeah, they get a little heavy (and awkward) to keep carrying. Especially when you also have to carry a lantern, switch list, and use your remote box at the same time.
BaltACD Looking at the suppliers pricing, brake sticks go for nearly $500 a pop. On my division their use is mandatory within terminals. Local terminal bought 100 - had to order more shortly thereafter. Problem with requiring their use - they are never where they are supposed to be when they are needed. Anecdotal observation - I am seeing more trains flagged outside the terminals for applied hand brakes than I ever have in the past. Couple enhanced hand brake requirements and enthusiastic enforcement of those requirements along with the use of brake sticks and you watch cars slide out of town. Georgia Railroader: Paul I sometimes use the hook on my brakestick to carry it along during various switch moves. Just dont forget it! The TM will get hot if you go to him for a replacement after yours took a field trip!
Georgia Railroader: Paul I sometimes use the hook on my brakestick to carry it along during various switch moves. Just dont forget it! The TM will get hot if you go to him for a replacement after yours took a field trip!
Our brakesticks are assigned to us by their cereal number, so wherever we go it goes.
The other part of your statement, I can understand too. We have that problem but it's caused by yard jobs building trains leaving handbrakes in the middle of the cuts. The car inspectors dont bother knocking them off, the detectors however catch them when the wheel treads are a nice blue hue.
My carrier does not belive in assigning brake sticks to every brakeman/conductor/utility man as a part of their personal equipment.
In our yards, the Carmen are not responsible for applying or releasing hand brakes in thier inspections at flat switch yards - they didn't set them and they won't release them. It is the responsiblity of the train crew originating the train or making the pick up to ensure all hand brakes have been released.
Georgia Railroader Our brakesticks are assigned to us by their cereal number, so wherever we go it goes. The other part of your statement, I can understand too. We have that problem but it's caused by yard jobs building trains leaving handbrakes in the middle of the cuts. The car inspectors dont bother knocking them off, the detectors however catch them when the wheel treads are a nice blue hue.
BaltACD My carrier does not belive in assigning brake sticks to every brakeman/conductor/utility man as a part of their personal equipment. In our yards, the Carmen are not responsible for applying or releasing hand brakes in thier inspections at flat switch yards - they didn't set them and they won't release them. It is the responsiblity of the train crew originating the train or making the pick up to ensure all hand brakes have been released. Georgia Railroader: Our brakesticks are assigned to us by their cereal number, so wherever we go it goes. The other part of your statement, I can understand too. We have that problem but it's caused by yard jobs building trains leaving handbrakes in the middle of the cuts. The car inspectors dont bother knocking them off, the detectors however catch them when the wheel treads are a nice blue hue.
Georgia Railroader: Our brakesticks are assigned to us by their cereal number, so wherever we go it goes. The other part of your statement, I can understand too. We have that problem but it's caused by yard jobs building trains leaving handbrakes in the middle of the cuts. The car inspectors dont bother knocking them off, the detectors however catch them when the wheel treads are a nice blue hue.
I understand, but walking a 150 car train eats up a lot of time. We couple up in the forwarding yard, check the head six cars, have the utility man check the rear while he does the EOT pop test. No way of knowing that there may be a handbrake buried 75 cars deep unless you walk the whole cut, or have someone watch you by which wont always happen.
This was an ongoing problem at one terminal. Leave out and get stopped by the detector at least twice out of 15 trips. The car inspectors wouldn't touch them and neither would the yard crew building the trains. They would swing out and double a track but wouldn't bother to release the handbrakes before shoving the track.
Since the yard crew will usually set the brakes on a few cars at the end of a cut to act as a 'stop' to switch or kick cars, or for the cars off the hump to run up against, it seems to me that the responsibility for releasing those brakes ought to be with the yard/ "trimmer"/ "pull-down" crews.
Alternatively, when doing the departure brake test, isn't someone - like the carmen - supposed to walk the whole train to make sure all the brakes have set ? And then - more to the point here - aren't they then supposed to walk the entire train again anyway to make that all brakes have released ? If the brakes on a car haven't released, that could be either a defective brake valve, etc. - or a still-applied handbrake. Either way, that ought to be checked and remedied. In any event, I wonder why a General Order or Rule hasn't been issued to clarify this and make clear who is responsible, to save time and prevent damage to car wheels, delays to road trains and wasted occupancy of main line track time, and wear on the brake shoes ?
Unless, of course, it's simply because with this lack of accountability, the train crews then get more time on duty and maybe some OT with the delay, and the carmen get more work by having to changing out the thermally-damaged wheels and worn brake shoes ? What's not to like about that, at least in the blue-collar ranks ? (And - Is the operating management asleep on this ?)
People better be careful and do their jobs.
Paul, in a perfect world everyone would do their jobs and we wouldn't have these issues. It's always a game of point the finger out here.
Well I know it - but that's why there's also still supposed to be some hard-case, no-nonsense middle managers for these situations, to knock some heads together and get the team to pull together, or know the reason why - and then do something about it.
Paul_D_North_Jr Well I know it - but that's why there's also still supposed to be some hard-case, no-nonsense middle managers for these situations, to knock some heads together and get the team to pull together, or know the reason why - and then do something about it. - Paul North.
Well it used to be that way, that is until the railroads stopped promoting from the ranks and started hiring managers off the street. Now our management is as clueless as can be because they have zero knowledge of railroad operations. They are completely out of their element.
On page 5 of this thread, Paul North posted this 1999 locomotive crashworthiness report:
I have read this report from 1999, and considered its conclusions in relation to last year’s BNSF rear end collision in Iowa in which a coal train ran into a work train made up of flat cars loaded with maintenance equipment.
In this report, it considers improved collision posts designs with strengths up to the strength of the main underframe structure of the locomotive. So this amounts to strengthening the posts themselves so they do not fail before the main underframe fails. Within that margin of improvement, the report offers two designs for strengthened posts. One is capable of protecting the cab at a closing speed of 30 mph, and the other is capable of protecting the cab at a closing speed of 37 mph. So, at 37 mph, the underframe would not be damaged.
I wonder if it has yet been determined what the closing speed was in the Iowa collision. In that collision, the collision posts themselves did not fail, but the main underframe did fail where the posts connected to them. Therefore, according to the analysis of the report ten years prior, the Iowa collision speed had to be in excess of 37 mph. If it was less than that speed, the report’s determination of what collision posts can withstand before damaging the main underframe is in error.
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