overall A stupid question, but, did not the operators along the railroad record the time the train paased on a train sheet? Isn't it a crime to falsify that? George
A stupid question, but, did not the operators along the railroad record the time the train paased on a train sheet? Isn't it a crime to falsify that?
George
Yes. And yes. But since, unike European roads where trains are timed at the quarters and half minute marks as well as the full minute, American roads have always used the nearest full minute or within the minute as deemed neccessary. Thus a train could go by station A at 1:01:00 and B station at 1:02:30 and be OS's a minute apart while it actually was a minute and a half. In one mile that could be the difference between 60 mph and 40mph. I am sure with Death Valley Scotty and the ego's of the Sante Fe employees and managers, the best time was put forward, even through fudge.
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Near the end of the 11-paragraph sidebar, Hankey writes "None <of theparameters he lists> would have permitted a top speed of 106 mph ..." Immediately after that are the two paragraphs dealing with Withun'sanalysis of steam capability:"To confirm my conclusions, I talked with Bill Withuhn. He recentlyretired as the Smithsonian's curator of transportation and is anexperienced steam locomotive engineer. His forthcoming book will bethe definitive history of modern steam locomotives. Years ago he rancalculations to determine the power output of New York Central's4-4-0 No. 999 (whose wishful 112.5-mph pace achieved in 1893 had beendiscredited within a decade) as well as Pennsylvania 4-4-2 No. 7002(the engine unofficially credited with going 127 mph in 1905)."In his opinion, neither locomotive - and certainly not Santa FeNo. 510 - could have generated the boiler output or cylinderhorsepower needed to accelerate their trains past 80 or 90 mph underideal conditions. Furthermore, it is hard to imagine that a firemancould shovel enough coal into No.510's firebox quickly enough toachieve such an extreme speed as 106 mph. The boiler couldn't havemade steam quickly enough, in the volume required, at a high enoughtemperature to propel those 349 tons much past 90 mph. It's a matterof energy inputs and mechanical outcomes."For myself, I know something about physics and a lot less aboutrailroads. None of these arguments is presented in enough detail tojudge whether the physics is right. There may well be data to supportthe conclusion, however as of now it's an argument on authority.John
[sarcasm]
It is my belief that the world is flat - To confirm my conclusions I talked with the Pope that excommunicated Galileo ..... he confirmed my beliefs and presented his science of the age to prove it....
[/sarcasm]
History is full of myths and falsehoods that have been proven incorrect by modern methods - yet we still refer to them as a part of the fabric of society.
I am more amazed by the fact that there were 19 engine changes within the elapsed time of the run.
jpwoodruff "To confirm my conclusions, I talked with Bill Withuhn. He recentlyretired as the Smithsonian's curator of transportation and is anexperienced steam locomotive engineer. His forthcoming book will bethe definitive history of modern steam locomotives. Years ago he rancalculations to determine the power output of New York Central's4-4-0 No. 999 (whose wishful 112.5-mph pace achieved in 1893 had beendiscredited within a decade) as well as Pennsylvania 4-4-2 No. 7002(the engine unofficially credited with going 127 mph in 1905).
"To confirm my conclusions, I talked with Bill Withuhn. He recentlyretired as the Smithsonian's curator of transportation and is anexperienced steam locomotive engineer. His forthcoming book will bethe definitive history of modern steam locomotives. Years ago he rancalculations to determine the power output of New York Central's4-4-0 No. 999 (whose wishful 112.5-mph pace achieved in 1893 had beendiscredited within a decade) as well as Pennsylvania 4-4-2 No. 7002(the engine unofficially credited with going 127 mph in 1905).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And about as many crew changes, too, I believe ! About 2-1/2 hrs. on duty for each, on average.
Unfortunately, that aspect wasn't much different by the time of the SuperC express intermodal train in the late 1960's - early 1970's. Wonder what it is now - 6 or 8 or so crews, probably.
- Paul North.
jpwoodruffFor myself, I know something about physics and a lot less aboutrailroads. None of these arguments is presented in enough detail tojudge whether the physics is right. There may well be data to supportthe conclusion, however as of now it's an argument on authority.John
Yes, the claimed debunking sounds like a bad case of sour grapes to me.
I wish I could find my old issue of Trains that covered this Death Valley Scotty run in a tone of admiration for the speed record and the performance of the AT&SF. It would sure draw a distinction between the magazine editorial attitude under DPM versus Trains magazine of today.
Having read the article and everyone's posts, I beleive that ATSF dropped the ball by not having some independant third party, perhaps someone from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers to be in charge of the speed measurement and record keeping. That person or persons would have published a paper telling exactly what they did , what equipment they used and what data they measured. Such an academic treatment of this experiment would have put to rest any questions about what actually happened. The article stated that Mr. Scott rushed everyone invloved into this trip for no good reason that I can find. I have to wonder why a big company like ATSF would allowed this to happen and why someone with them did not take the time necessary for a good and complete execution of this experiment.
I would submit that the 106.1 MPH was incidental to the trip, not a planned part of it.
The stated goal was 44 hours to Chicago. That simply required the average 50-ish speeds they attained.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "record" wasn't an ad hoc effort by the crew at the moment.
"How's she running?"
"Pretty good!"
"There's a good stretch of track up ahead, let's see what she'll do!"
"Let's get her primed!"
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
But the goal was not scientific measurments of speed but rather the hype and PR and bragging ability, the sensationlism.
"Railroad Folk Lore (?)" Stories iof incredible speed(?)
In College I did a paper on Raymond Loewy ( One statemet that really stood out had appeared on a Loewy Site: It was a repetition of his comments while standing on the Platform of an Ohio RR Station when the S-1 passed by with a Passenger train, and his description of the ground shaking, the noise, and the wind generated by its passage.
Linked below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_S1
FTL:"...Alleged speed records
"...It was hoped that the locomotive could haul 1,000 tons at 100 miles per hour, but this goal was not reached. While an article "Riding the Gargantua of the Rails" in the Dec. 1941 Popular Mechanics Magazine cites a speed of 133.4 miles an hour, there are apocryphal stories of the S1 reaching or exceeding 140 miles per hour, but there is no documentation of these and it is considered unlikely by experts.[7]
Its high speed capability was such that some have claimed the S1 may have even exceeded the 126 mph (203 km/h) record steam locomotive speed set in 1938 by the LNER locomotive Mallard. The locomotive was also rumoured to have operated at speeds exceeding 156 mph on the Fort Wayne-Chicago Railroad, as it was rumoured that the PRR received a fine posted by an interlocking tower on the division, proving the claim. However, it appears that no verifiable records are available to authenticate the claims.[7].."
And this site as well: http://www.crestlineprr.com/duplexexperimentals.html#s1
The PRR Crestline (Ohio) Engine Facility.
The there was the Story of the Speed Run of the CB&Q RR Zeypher from Denver to Chicago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Zephyr
FTL:"...On May 26, 1934, it set a speed record for travel between Denver, Colorado, and Chicago, Illinois, when it made a 1,015-mile (1,633 km) non-stop "Dawn-to-Dusk" dash in 13 hours 5 minutes at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h). For one section of the run it reached a speed of 112.5 mph (181 km/h), just short of the then US land speed record of 115 mph (185 km/h). The historic dash inspired a 1934 film and the train's nickname, "Silver Streak".[1][2][3][4]
Speed Records(?) You bet, but for the instant, legends in the minds of those observers and crews who were there. Many American records are suspect as the documentation wether "Official" or not, is mostly lacking.
The Europeans when the go after a record seem to do it right, they have it verified by documentation and observation with specific metrics for 'the Records' by Official Time and Record Keeping Organizations. Not so much so in the USA, It is an opportunity of circumstances and the individuals involved.
Onbe incident that was 'done right was the run of the NYC RR's M-497
http://jalopnik.com/359202/new-york-centrals-m+497-jet-powered-train
FTL:"...The build came in the form of a US Air Force surplus General Electric J47-19 jet engines in a B36-H bomber engine pod planted on the roof of a modified Budd commuter car with a custom made, fitted cowling. On a high speed test run between in 1966 between Butler, IN and Stryker, OH, the M-497 reached a top speed of 183.681mph-- still the current high speed record for light rail in the United States. With the rails proven capable of high speed transit, the experimental was dismantled and the M497 returned to civilian duty as an NYC commuter car, running the route between Poughkeepsie and Harmon for Metro North where it live until its sale to Conrail in May 1976. In an undignified end, the car was cannibalized for parts in Dec. 1977 and scrapped by Metro-North in 1984..."
[Copied the following Tale which was posted as noted by locoi1sa ( to whom I am grateful! This sort of rests my case about Speed and Rumors of those runs...] linked to MR Forum: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/203538.aspx
A good read for steam heads..................... A Pennsylvania Railroad Class T1. LAST CHANCE for a Pennsylvania Railroad Class T1 By John R. Crosby Early in 1948, Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) President Martin W. Clement announced that "by May of this year we expect all our important east-west passenger trains will be diesel-electric powered west of Harrisburg." True to his word, hordes of pin-striped diesels began to arrive from La Grange, Eddystone, Erie, and any other place that could slap together a diesel locomotive. It seems that the Pennsy, in its rush to dieselize, bought them all. With the arrival of the new power, it was not long before the Pennsy's T1 Locomotives, then only three or so years old were relegated to pulling secondary trains. I was firing such a run between Fort Wayne, Indiana and Crestline, Ohio, and return. Even our unglamorous trains, many bereft of names, now regularly sported diesels on the head end. The best evidence of this was the way passenger engine crews dressed for work. Most of us had discarded our work shirts, overalls, and bandanas in favor of slacks and sport shirts. Some of the old-timers persisted in wearing their Oshkosh or Carhartt overalls, but they were looked down upon as hopeless fossils by we of the younger crowd. While I had joined the slacks and shirt crowd, in the bottom of my grip I still carried a pair of goggles and gauntlet gloves. On the day in question, my engineer and I were awaiting the arrival of No. 43. The train was due into Crestline at 2:25 p.m., and was a typical secondary train of that era. The normal consist was about 14 cars of storage mail, Railway Express, and Railway Post office cars, a combination car and two coaches. The train originated in Pitts burgh and wound up in Chicago, making stops every 25 miles of so. On this run, the only significant revenue was produced on the head end, not in the coaches. About 1:45 p.m. we received word that number 43 was running some 45 minutes late, and was steam powered. We were being assigned a class T1, and would we kindly get ourselves on the No. 5536. Reluctantly we walked out of the roundhouse and searched for our engine. Way over on a back ready track we found it. What a pitiful sight! The engine and tender were coated with thick layers of grime and soot. At any place where steam was discharged, either by design or accident, streaks of gray dripped downward. Someone had cleaned off the numbers on the side of the cab. This had been done in such a fashion that each number looked as though it was in an oval frame. To verify ownership, the flanks of the tender proudly displayed the letters PENNSY. The LVANIA was totally covered by dirt. The rubber diaphragm between the cab and tender was in shreds or missing. On the engine, various inspection covers were missing, giving it a curiously hollow appearance. The casing around the stacks was gone and they showed up quite clearly. I had anticipated the cab would not be very clean so I scrounged up a large ball of cotton waste. Climbing up into the cab confirmed my suspicions that it was a filthy mess. About the only clean spot was the engineer's seat where the hostler had sat while coaling up the tender. Harry, my engineer, using the privileges of seniority, remained on the ground and hollered up to me to get him a long oil can. I handed him one and began to get busy with my cleaning. It was quite evident that this engine had been sitting around for some time with the cab windows open to the elements and whatever dirt happened to be in the area. I turned on the injector, then the squirt hose, and tried to wash down all the dirt that I could dislodge with water. While I did achieve some degree of success, there was still a lot of dirt in the cab as harry climbed up the ladder. He was very careful not to touch any place I happened to miss in my cleaning operation. He spent a few minutes wiping off his seat, and the various valves and levers he would be operating. Satisfied with his efforts, he sat down and began testing the air brakes, whistle, bell, water pump, etc. While he was busy with his chores I got the fire ready. Surprisingly, considering how long the engine had been sitting around, the fire was in fairly good shape. It did not require much to get it to my liking. We were now ready to back down to the station. Harry turned on the bell, gave three short blasts on the whistle, opened the cylinder cocks, then cracked open the throttle. We started to back up, blowing out large amounts of water through the open cylinder cocks. At Riley Street I saw that the dwarf signal governing our movement off the ready track to the running track was displaying "restricting," allowing us to continue our reverse move. We continued to back eastward until stopped by the signal guarding access to the mainline. We sat here for some time until we heard the unmistakable sound of a Pennsylvania chime whistle. No. 43 was finally in town. A few minutes later, a pair of bedraggled K4's slipped by on their way to the roundhouse. As soon as they cleared the interlocking, I could see the switch points flop over for our movement; this was followed by the signal changing from "stop" to "restricting." I called the aspect to Harry and we backed down to the train, rumbling across the tracks of the Big Four's Cleveland to Columbus mainline. As we coupled onto the train, I noted that our conductor was standing on the platform with a clearance card stating that No. 43 had no train orders. He also let us know that today we had a total of 15 cars, all heavyweight. It was quite obvious that his major concern was that of maintaining as much distance as possible between himself and the filthy locomotive. The car inspectors coupled the air and signal hoses, and then the steam heat connectors. Harry ran the air test while I fed coal to the fire. At 3:40 p.m., 1 our and 15 minutes late, the communicating whistle peeped twice and we were finally on our way. Harry turned on the bell, opened the sanders, and gently pulled on the throttle. With a T1, you did not yank open the throttle unless you waned the engine to slip, sand or no sand. We slowly began to move, again rumbling over the Big Four diamonds (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Railway or CCC&StL which became the New York Central). At about 20 mph, Harry made a running brake test. He released the brakes and opened the throttle a bit more. We had a 4-mph speed restriction around an "S" curve through the yard. Once clear of it, Harry got down to business and the tired old 5536 began to accelerate just as its designers had intended. [Keep it mind the T1s had rotary cam poppet valves]. In spite of its cruddy appearance, this engine was still in good mechanical condition. As the speed increased, so did the flow of cinders, grime sand and dust, and other debris into and out of the cab. Evidently, there were some nooks that I had overlooked in my cleaning efforts. It was indeed fortunate that I still had my goggles available. While our eyes are protected from the flying dirt, I cannot say the same for our slacks and sport shirts. Bucyrus was our first stop, only 12 minutes west of Crestline. We drove into the station in a cloud of sand and dust, and blue brakeshoe smoke. After a few minutes, during which mail, express and a few passengers had either been unloaded or loaded, we started another dash to Upper Sandusky, Ohio, all of 18 miles farther west. This was followed by stops at Ada and Lima. During the Lima stop, we filled the tender to its 19,000-gallon capacity. The farther west we went, the better the T1 performed. Our speed easily passed 90 several times. Now, before anyone reading this gets excited about the speed mentioned, and cites the fact that the legal speed limit for passenger trains on the Fort Wayne division was 79 mph, let me quote the road foreman at the time, on James A. (Pappy) Warren: "If you can't make up time without worrying about the speed limit, I'll get someone who can." Our last scheduled stop was in Van Wert, Ohio. Again, Harry drove into the station, making a precise spot so that the various mail and express carts did not have to move far to find an open door. He called me over to his side of the cab and said, "Johnny, this may be our last chance at one of these beasts. What do you say about seeing just what she'll do between here and Fort Wayne?" As he spoke, I noted that his face was completely covered with dirt, except for the two white circles behind his glasses. My deferential reply was, "You're the boss. My side of the cab is still attached to yours." He nodded in reply to my answer, and issued a warning. "You'd better get your fire ready, 'cause we're going to move out of here." With this bit of information, I began to work on my fire. I grabbed the No. 5 scoop shovel and filled the back corners of the firebox. I shut off the stoker jets and ran a big ward of coal into the firebox, right in front of the firebox doors. When finished, I felt satisfied that I was ready for what was to come. With the first peep of the communicating whistle, Harry turned on the bell and sanders. A second later came the second peep. He cautiously opened the throttle. The first six or so exhausts were relatively gentle "chuffs" as we began to move. One of the exhaust blew a perfect smoke ring. When Harry was satisfied that we had a good supply of sand under the drivers, he pulled open the throttle a little farther. Until then, the sounds of the exhaust had been drowned out by the sound of the whistle, but no more. The exhaust began to snap and crack out of the twin stacks. The presence of nearby warehouses and lumber yards created a pronounced echo effect so that each exhaust was multiplied as it bounced back and forth from building to building. This was the ultimate in stereo. With the heavy throttle, the engine began to rock slightly from side to side. We rounded the curve at Estry Tower, and now between us and Fort Wayne lay 31 miles of perfectly straight track. As soon as we cleared the Cincinnati Northern diamond, Harry pulled the throttle wide open. The engine began to quiver, and it was easy to note the acceleration. With a good supply of sand, there was not a hint of a slip, although I did note that Harry kept his hand on the throttle in anticipation of such an event. As the speed built up, he began to move the reverse lever from the corner up towards center, in effect shifting from low to high gear. The busy U.S. 30 crossing slipped by with the speedometer showing 78 mph. Soon the needle showed 86. In spite of the large demand for steam, I had no problem maintaining 300 pounds of steam pressure. This was not necessarily due to my prowess as a fireman, but rather to the fact that the engine was a free steamer. I cracked open the firedoors to check the fire. I was satisfied to note that its color was bright yellow-white. The coal that I had put into the back corners and in front of the fire door was long gone. Dixon is the location of a cast-iron post indicating Ohio on one side and Indiana on the other. We did not have much time for reading as we were now running at 96 mph. Harry had now moved the reverse lever to within just a few points of being vertical. He was kept busy blowing for road crossings. At our speed, there was not too much time from the passing of a whistle post until the crossing showed up. We bounced straight through the Monroeville crossovers at 108 mph, with the needle still unwinding. West of town we hit 110. The "T" still had reserve left. The only problem we had was with dirt and soot. This was compounded by coal dust from the tender. At Maples the speedometer needle quit moving. We were now covering a mile in 30 seconds - 120 mph! We blazed by Adams Tower with the engine and tender each trying to go their separate ways as they passed over the crossovers and siding switches. The tower operator beat a hasty retreat as the breeze we created tried to blow him over. Clearing the interlocking, Harry applied the brakes and pulled our speed down to a more respectable 80. We slipped into town, stopping at the coal dock for a load of coal. With the tender full, we made our final dash of a mile to the Fort Wayne station. Arriving there, we got off and headed downstairs to the crew room. The passenger crew dispatcher, Chet Glant, met Harry as he turned in his timeslip. "Harry, the dispatcher wants to talk to you upstairs." So without cleaning ourselves, we both went up to the dispatcher's office. The dispatcher eyeballed us, shaking his head in wonder. Somewhat sarcastically he asked, "Which one of you two clowns has a pilot's license?" He paused for dramatic effect and continued, "You guys were certainly flying low today. According to your timing by Estry and Adams, it took you only 17 minutes to cover 27miles. Now my math is nothing to brag about, but that averages out to something like 95 miles per hour, and that from a station stop." Neither of us offered any comment. He looked at us for a few moments and closed with the admonition, "Don't do this again." As we walked out he grinned and added, Good job, guys." The did turn out to be my last trip on a T1. With the proliferation of diesels on passenger trains, there was little call for maintaining much of an extra passenger board. About the only business was that of pulling dead, or nearly dead, Baldwin diesels. So when the engineers' board was cut, I wound up back on freight with Q2's (4-4-6-4), J1's (2-10-4) and F3's. But that is another story.
I will take the Sante Fe story at face value. True there was no third party verificaiton, but the speed was determined by times between specific mile posts, and there isn't any reason to doubt that the people in the cab were honest.
About the idea that the locomotive was not capable of such speed,: This might be true for a continuous basis, but any steam locomotive can exceed its rated firebox-boiler hoursepower capabilities for a few minutes, and that is all that it would take. Possibly there was a slight downgrade to help. Possibly the safety valve was set a few PSI above the 220 rating, and the actual boiler pressure might have been 223 or 224.
I would credit the Sante Fe BEFORE crediting the PRR and NYC records, which may be more doubtful.
But I don't doubt the T-1 performance. I wonder what those passengers in those not particularly well-sprung P-70 coaches were thinking!
I read the article and wasn't convinced with the authors conclusions. I thought railroaders all timed their distances to figure out their speed back in the day...that is why the seconds=mph charts were listed in the timetables.
Maybe Hankey can clear up how the Egyptians built the pyramids next.
My train videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/karldotcom
karldotcom I read the article and wasn't convinced with the authors conclusions. I thought railroaders all timed their distances to figure out their speed back in the day...that is why the seconds=mph charts were listed in the timetables. Maybe Hankey can clear up how the Egyptians built the pyramids next.
It has already been proven that the ancient Egyptians did not have the technology to lift such huge blocks so as to build the pyramiids, so it is obvious that they are just a myth and do not exist today.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
I still haven't gotte to the article yet, hope to tonight. But one of the factors to be applied to legendary stories as presented in this issue of Trains is an old saw, "the romance of railroading", virtually inconcievable in this technological age. There was romance and excitement for all Americans to hear these stories of bravado and speed, taking risks with their lives and others while manipulating the giant steam machine to do impossible feats defying God and gravity with speeds unimagined in a horse drawn and Model T world. Men, women, and childrens minds had not been deadened by a man on the moon, iPads, cell phones, and the internet. You've got to put all the eras between today and then in order and perspective to understand the charm and interest and hype. And to accept it.
samfp1943 " alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" /> " alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" /> locoi1sa Posts :2,400 Joined: 07-12-2006 I got this in an Email and its a great story. " alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" /> locoi1sa Posted: 03-03-2012 6:16 PM Reply More A good read for steam heads..................... A Pennsylvania Railroad Class T1. LAST CHANCE for a Pennsylvania Railroad Class T1 By John R. Crosby Early in 1948, Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) President Martin W. Clement announced that "by May of this year we expect all our important east-west passenger trains will be diesel-electric powered west of Harrisburg." True to his word, hordes of pin-striped diesels began to arrive from La Grange, Eddystone, Erie, and any other place that could slap together a diesel locomotive. It seems that the Pennsy, in its rush to dieselize, bought them all. With the arrival of the new power, it was not long before the Pennsy's T1 Locomotives, then only three or so years old were relegated to pulling secondary trains. I was firing such a run between Fort Wayne, Indiana and Crestline, Ohio, and return. Even our unglamorous trains, many bereft of names, now regularly sported diesels on the head end. The best evidence of this was the way passenger engine crews dressed for work. Most of us had discarded our work shirts, overalls, and bandanas in favor of slacks and sport shirts. Some of the old-timers persisted in wearing their Oshkosh or Carhartt overalls, but they were looked down upon as hopeless fossils by we of the younger crowd. While I had joined the slacks and shirt crowd, in the bottom of my grip I still carried a pair of goggles and gauntlet gloves. On the day in question, my engineer and I were awaiting the arrival of No. 43. The train was due into Crestline at 2:25 p.m., and was a typical secondary train of that era. The normal consist was about 14 cars of storage mail, Railway Express, and Railway Post office cars, a combination car and two coaches. The train originated in Pitts burgh and wound up in Chicago, making stops every 25 miles of so. On this run, the only significant revenue was produced on the head end, not in the coaches. About 1:45 p.m. we received word that number 43 was running some 45 minutes late, and was steam powered. We were being assigned a class T1, and would we kindly get ourselves on the No. 5536. Reluctantly we walked out of the roundhouse and searched for our engine. Way over on a back ready track we found it. What a pitiful sight! The engine and tender were coated with thick layers of grime and soot. At any place where steam was discharged, either by design or accident, streaks of gray dripped downward. Someone had cleaned off the numbers on the side of the cab. This had been done in such a fashion that each number looked as though it was in an oval frame. To verify ownership, the flanks of the tender proudly displayed the letters PENNSY. The LVANIA was totally covered by dirt. The rubber diaphragm between the cab and tender was in shreds or missing. On the engine, various inspection covers were missing, giving it a curiously hollow appearance. The casing around the stacks was gone and they showed up quite clearly. I had anticipated the cab would not be very clean so I scrounged up a large ball of cotton waste. Climbing up into the cab confirmed my suspicions that it was a filthy mess. About the only clean spot was the engineer's seat where the hostler had sat while coaling up the tender. Harry, my engineer, using the privileges of seniority, remained on the ground and hollered up to me to get him a long oil can. I handed him one and began to get busy with my cleaning. It was quite evident that this engine had been sitting around for some time with the cab windows open to the elements and whatever dirt happened to be in the area. I turned on the injector, then the squirt hose, and tried to wash down all the dirt that I could dislodge with water. While I did achieve some degree of success, there was still a lot of dirt in the cab as harry climbed up the ladder. He was very careful not to touch any place I happened to miss in my cleaning operation. He spent a few minutes wiping off his seat, and the various valves and levers he would be operating. Satisfied with his efforts, he sat down and began testing the air brakes, whistle, bell, water pump, etc. While he was busy with his chores I got the fire ready. Surprisingly, considering how long the engine had been sitting around, the fire was in fairly good shape. It did not require much to get it to my liking. We were now ready to back down to the station. Harry turned on the bell, gave three short blasts on the whistle, opened the cylinder cocks, then cracked open the throttle. We started to back up, blowing out large amounts of water through the open cylinder cocks. At Riley Street I saw that the dwarf signal governing our movement off the ready track to the running track was displaying "restricting," allowing us to continue our reverse move. We continued to back eastward until stopped by the signal guarding access to the mainline. We sat here for some time until we heard the unmistakable sound of a Pennsylvania chime whistle. No. 43 was finally in town. A few minutes later, a pair of bedraggled K4's slipped by on their way to the roundhouse. As soon as they cleared the interlocking, I could see the switch points flop over for our movement; this was followed by the signal changing from "stop" to "restricting." I called the aspect to Harry and we backed down to the train, rumbling across the tracks of the Big Four's Cleveland to Columbus mainline. As we coupled onto the train, I noted that our conductor was standing on the platform with a clearance card stating that No. 43 had no train orders. He also let us know that today we had a total of 15 cars, all heavyweight. It was quite obvious that his major concern was that of maintaining as much distance as possible between himself and the filthy locomotive. The car inspectors coupled the air and signal hoses, and then the steam heat connectors. Harry ran the air test while I fed coal to the fire. At 3:40 p.m., 1 our and 15 minutes late, the communicating whistle peeped twice and we were finally on our way. Harry turned on the bell, opened the sanders, and gently pulled on the throttle. With a T1, you did not yank open the throttle unless you waned the engine to slip, sand or no sand. We slowly began to move, again rumbling over the Big Four diamonds (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Railway or CCC&StL which became the New York Central). At about 20 mph, Harry made a running brake test. He released the brakes and opened the throttle a bit more. We had a 4-mph speed restriction around an "S" curve through the yard. Once clear of it, Harry got down to business and the tired old 5536 began to accelerate just as its designers had intended. [Keep it mind the T1s had rotary cam poppet valves]. In spite of its cruddy appearance, this engine was still in good mechanical condition. As the speed increased, so did the flow of cinders, grime sand and dust, and other debris into and out of the cab. Evidently, there were some nooks that I had overlooked in my cleaning efforts. It was indeed fortunate that I still had my goggles available. While our eyes are protected from the flying dirt, I cannot say the same for our slacks and sport shirts. Bucyrus was our first stop, only 12 minutes west of Crestline. We drove into the station in a cloud of sand and dust, and blue brakeshoe smoke. After a few minutes, during which mail, express and a few passengers had either been unloaded or loaded, we started another dash to Upper Sandusky, Ohio, all of 18 miles farther west. This was followed by stops at Ada and Lima. During the Lima stop, we filled the tender to its 19,000-gallon capacity. The farther west we went, the better the T1 performed. Our speed easily passed 90 several times. Now, before anyone reading this gets excited about the speed mentioned, and cites the fact that the legal speed limit for passenger trains on the Fort Wayne division was 79 mph, let me quote the road foreman at the time, on James A. (Pappy) Warren: "If you can't make up time without worrying about the speed limit, I'll get someone who can." Our last scheduled stop was in Van Wert, Ohio. Again, Harry drove into the station, making a precise spot so that the various mail and express carts did not have to move far to find an open door. He called me over to his side of the cab and said, "Johnny, this may be our last chance at one of these beasts. What do you say about seeing just what she'll do between here and Fort Wayne?" As he spoke, I noted that his face was completely covered with dirt, except for the two white circles behind his glasses. My deferential reply was, "You're the boss. My side of the cab is still attached to yours." He nodded in reply to my answer, and issued a warning. "You'd better get your fire ready, 'cause we're going to move out of here." With this bit of information, I began to work on my fire. I grabbed the No. 5 scoop shovel and filled the back corners of the firebox. I shut off the stoker jets and ran a big ward of coal into the firebox, right in front of the firebox doors. When finished, I felt satisfied that I was ready for what was to come. With the first peep of the communicating whistle, Harry turned on the bell and sanders. A second later came the second peep. He cautiously opened the throttle. The first six or so exhausts were relatively gentle "chuffs" as we began to move. One of the exhaust blew a perfect smoke ring. When Harry was satisfied that we had a good supply of sand under the drivers, he pulled open the throttle a little farther. Until then, the sounds of the exhaust had been drowned out by the sound of the whistle, but no more. The exhaust began to snap and crack out of the twin stacks. The presence of nearby warehouses and lumber yards created a pronounced echo effect so that each exhaust was multiplied as it bounced back and forth from building to building. This was the ultimate in stereo. With the heavy throttle, the engine began to rock slightly from side to side. We rounded the curve at Estry Tower, and now between us and Fort Wayne lay 31 miles of perfectly straight track. As soon as we cleared the Cincinnati Northern diamond, Harry pulled the throttle wide open. The engine began to quiver, and it was easy to note the acceleration. With a good supply of sand, there was not a hint of a slip, although I did note that Harry kept his hand on the throttle in anticipation of such an event. As the speed built up, he began to move the reverse lever from the corner up towards center, in effect shifting from low to high gear. The busy U.S. 30 crossing slipped by with the speedometer showing 78 mph. Soon the needle showed 86. In spite of the large demand for steam, I had no problem maintaining 300 pounds of steam pressure. This was not necessarily due to my prowess as a fireman, but rather to the fact that the engine was a free steamer. I cracked open the firedoors to check the fire. I was satisfied to note that its color was bright yellow-white. The coal that I had put into the back corners and in front of the fire door was long gone. Dixon is the location of a cast-iron post indicating Ohio on one side and Indiana on the other. We did not have much time for reading as we were now running at 96 mph. Harry had now moved the reverse lever to within just a few points of being vertical. He was kept busy blowing for road crossings. At our speed, there was not too much time from the passing of a whistle post until the crossing showed up. We bounced straight through the Monroeville crossovers at 108 mph, with the needle still unwinding. West of town we hit 110. The "T" still had reserve left. The only problem we had was with dirt and soot. This was compounded by coal dust from the tender. At Maples the speedometer needle quit moving. We were now covering a mile in 30 seconds - 120 mph! We blazed by Adams Tower with the engine and tender each trying to go their separate ways as they passed over the crossovers and siding switches. The tower operator beat a hasty retreat as the breeze we created tried to blow him over. Clearing the interlocking, Harry applied the brakes and pulled our speed down to a more respectable 80. We slipped into town, stopping at the coal dock for a load of coal. With the tender full, we made our final dash of a mile to the Fort Wayne station. Arriving there, we got off and headed downstairs to the crew room. The passenger crew dispatcher, Chet Glant, met Harry as he turned in his timeslip. "Harry, the dispatcher wants to talk to you upstairs." So without cleaning ourselves, we both went up to the dispatcher's office. The dispatcher eyeballed us, shaking his head in wonder. Somewhat sarcastically he asked, "Which one of you two clowns has a pilot's license?" He paused for dramatic effect and continued, "You guys were certainly flying low today. According to your timing by Estry and Adams, it took you only 17 minutes to cover 27miles. Now my math is nothing to brag about, but that averages out to something like 95 miles per hour, and that from a station stop." Neither of us offered any comment. He looked at us for a few moments and closed with the admonition, "Don't do this again." As we walked out he grinned and added, Good job, guys." The did turn out to be my last trip on a T1. With the proliferation of diesels on passenger trains, there was little call for maintaining much of an extra passenger board. About the only business was that of pulling dead, or nearly dead, Baldwin diesels. So when the engineers' board was cut, I wound up back on freight with Q2's (4-4-6-4), J1's (2-10-4) and F3's. But that is another story.
After thinking about the probability of speed records being exaggerated, I find myself unable to believe the speed run described by John Crosby in his above quoted piece about a run with PRR class T1. It is a fun story, but I don’t believe they ran 120 mph. It is not that I don’t believe the locomotive was capable of pulling the train that fast. It may or may not have been capable of that. But what I do not believe is that an engineer would have exceeded the speed limit by 41 mph with a passenger train.
The consist of the train as described in one of the early paragraphs makes it out to be primarily a mail & express train, with a rider coach or two. Carriers in the era had a number of these type trains operating....12-15 Mail & express cars and a rider coach, mainly for the crew. They operated on passenger train schedules at passenger train speeds but rarely had actual passengers. The station stops mentioned could very well have been for working the mail & express, not for handling passengers.
Another thing - back in the day, there was no radar and supervision was not a stickler for crews observing more than the maximum on unrestricted areas of track, in fact some in supervision even encouraged crews to 'make up time' when possible.
Bucyrus After thinking about the probability of speed records being exaggerated, I find myself unable to believe the speed run described by John Crosby in his above quoted piece about a run with PRR class T1. It is a fun story, but I don’t believe they ran 120 mph. It is not that I don’t believe the locomotive was capable of pulling the train that fast. It may or may not have been capable of that. But what I do not believe is that an engineer would have exceeded the speed limit by 41 mph with a passenger train.
BaltACDAnother thing - back in the day, there was no radar and supervision was not a stickler for crews observing more than the maximum on unrestricted areas of track, in fact some in supervision even encouraged crews to 'make up time' when possible.
Anecdote from one RR mag or another:
After coupling his steamer to a hot NYC passenger train at Harmon, an engineer got his orders:
"Do not arrive in Albany before....."
Well, I read the Scotty article, and actually found the entire issue quite interesting. I was pleasantly surprised that the overall theme was not what I expected. I find the cover design to be particularly attractive.
But to the issue of Scott’s speed run, Mr. Hankey says, “Let’s just say there are grounds for skepticism.” I can’t disagree with that. But there is a lot of distance between skepticism and debunking. Perhaps debunk was a word chosen by the editorial staff.
Mr. Hankey gives the following three reasons to discredit the speed claim:
1) It reeks of wishful thinking and corporate spin.
2) There is no credible scenario that it could have been accurately timed.
3) It was physically impossible according to the law of thermodynamics.
Regarding #1, if we reject claims on that basis, I would submit that 100% of the news reported today has to be 100% false.
Regarding #2, there is no reason to assume that times were rounded off to the nearest minute just because that was the normal practice for train schedule timekeeping. Anybody seeking to determine actual track speed over a few miles of sample is going to realize that it has to be timed to the second. To attempt to discredit the speed claim by speculating that the railroad may not have clocks with second hands, could not set clocks to the second, or did not have clocks at all, strikes me as absurd. Mr. Hankey says that the operators at the two stations would have had to each record the time of passage, and their clocks might not have been synchronized.
The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Or somebody on the train could have recorded the time by each station. It is incomprehensible to me how anyone can believe that the timing would have been technologically impossible, or even difficult.
Regarding #3, I agree that the speed run could be proven to be either possible or impossible according to the laws of thermodynamics. However, proving it according to that law is not the same thing as merely claiming that the law proves it. The way the laws of physics apply to this speed record can be demonstrated.
We know the parameters such as locomotive specifications, train weight, mechanical details of locomotive, train, and track, and the exact geographical location. So the physics problem can be laid out for all to see. Its terms and result are objective, and will tell us one way or the other whether the speed claim was possible. But just claiming the laws of physics are on your side is meaningless.
Bucyrus The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I can't speak to what the ATSF procedures were in 1905....however, when I broke in, telegraph was still active on the division - At NOON every day a signal was sent over the telegraph wire that all locations with Standard Clocks and all telegraph operators that had clocks were required to set and regulate their clocks in accordance with the signal that was being sent. My understanding is that the signal originated from the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. What other carriers may have used I don't know, however, since Time was a routine statement in Time Table & Train Orders railroading I am certain there was a daily procedure for all clocks on the system to be synchronized.
Murphy Siding Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years?
Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used.
BaltACD I can't speak to what the ATSF procedures were in 1905....however, when I broke in, telegraph was still active on the division - At NOON every day a signal was sent over the telegraph wire that all locations with Standard Clocks and all telegraph operators that had clocks were required to set and regulate their clocks in accordance with the signal that was being sent. My understanding is that the signal originated from the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. What other carriers may have used I don't know, however, since Time was a routine statement in Time Table & Train Orders railroading I am certain there was a daily procedure for all clocks on the system to be synchronized. Murphy Siding: Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years?
Murphy Siding: Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years?
Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years?
Of course, the time at which the signal was sent on your division depended upon your time zone, as one signal was from the Naval Observatory at noon, EST. Thus, if you worked in the Central Time Zone, it came at 11:00 a.m.
The Naval Observatory (or whatever it is called now) has been transmitting the time by radio for more than sixty-five years (that was about the time that I began listening to WWV, which now broadcasts, using the same call letters, from Fort Collins, Colorado. I do not know all the frequencies used, but I have listened on 2.5, 5.0, and 10.0 mghz (using a radio that was built in 1946).
Please, let us not quibble about "coordination of watches."
Johnny
tree68 After coupling his steamer to a hot NYC passenger train at Harmon, an engineer got his orders: "Do not arrive in Albany before....."
Actually that is a standard train order which sets a schedule for an extra train or a regulat triain under special circumstances. First, it gives the train a schedule to follow then it gives notice to all towers, stations and operators as well as all opposing trains and trains it might overtake, track crews, etc. notice that there will be a train and what time to expect it. It was most common on single track, running in oposing direction on double track, when detouring over track or route it wouldn't normally operate.
Murphy Siding Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years?
I don’t think it would have been a big deal to synchronize watches or clocks to compare times. That has been a signature procedure in railroading for a long time. But even so, a stretch of run could be timed with just one timepiece. Engineers routinely did that with a measured mile. And railroads provided measured miles for just that purpose. The perception of a passing mile marker could easily be marked to the second. It could probably be marked to a quarter-second.
For the Scott run, they had to work to the second in order to make the calculation. There were smart people back in 1905. Hankey makes it sound like they hadn’t invented the second yet.
Here is a link to the story of the Scott Special:
http://cprr.org/Museum/Scott_Special_1905.html
Quoted from the link:
“From the little hamlet of Cameron to the still smaller one of Surrey is 2.8 miles. “She” made it in one minute and thirty-five seconds at a rate of 106 miles an hour.”
From that description, they must have had the ability to count seconds.
Deggesty BaltACD: I can't speak to what the ATSF procedures were in 1905....however, when I broke in, telegraph was still active on the division - At NOON every day a signal was sent over the telegraph wire that all locations with Standard Clocks and all telegraph operators that had clocks were required to set and regulate their clocks in accordance with the signal that was being sent. My understanding is that the signal originated from the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. What other carriers may have used I don't know, however, since Time was a routine statement in Time Table & Train Orders railroading I am certain there was a daily procedure for all clocks on the system to be synchronized. Murphy Siding: Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years? I have no reason to doubt that the procedure followed by BaltACD's road was followed by all other roads that depended upon accuracy in timekeeping in the operation of their trains. Remember: you do NOT railroad with a fast watch when you depend upon train orders and the timetable to prevent collisions. All timepieces on a division that operated in one time zone were set to the same time. Why worry about "coordination of timepieces? They had to be coordinated. Of course, the time at which the signal was sent on your division depended upon your time zone, as one signal was from the Naval Observatory at noon, EST. Thus, if you worked in the Central Time Zone, it came at 11:00 a.m. The Naval Observatory (or whatever it is called now) has been transmitting the time by radio for more than sixty-five years (that was about the time that I began listening to WWV, which now broadcasts, using the same call letters, from Fort Collins, Colorado. I do not know all the frequencies used, but I have listened on 2.5, 5.0, and 10.0 mghz (using a radio that was built in 1946). Please, let us not quibble about "coordination of watches."
BaltACD: I can't speak to what the ATSF procedures were in 1905....however, when I broke in, telegraph was still active on the division - At NOON every day a signal was sent over the telegraph wire that all locations with Standard Clocks and all telegraph operators that had clocks were required to set and regulate their clocks in accordance with the signal that was being sent. My understanding is that the signal originated from the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. What other carriers may have used I don't know, however, since Time was a routine statement in Time Table & Train Orders railroading I am certain there was a daily procedure for all clocks on the system to be synchronized. Murphy Siding: Bucyrus: The two station operators could have synchronized their clocks by telegraph ahead of time. Indeed, the whole ATSF system probably synchronized their time by telegraph as an every day routine. Or the two agents could have used one clock at one station, and recorded the passage at the other station by telegraph signal to the station with the clock being used. Test If the ATSF did synchonized their watches on that day, or on every day, I can't imagine they would be synchonized to the second. If they had sychronized their watches to the second especially for that run, wouldn't there have been some mention of the fact in print somewhere over the last 100 years? I have no reason to doubt that the procedure followed by BaltACD's road was followed by all other roads that depended upon accuracy in timekeeping in the operation of their trains. Remember: you do NOT railroad with a fast watch when you depend upon train orders and the timetable to prevent collisions. All timepieces on a division that operated in one time zone were set to the same time. Why worry about "coordination of timepieces? They had to be coordinated. Of course, the time at which the signal was sent on your division depended upon your time zone, as one signal was from the Naval Observatory at noon, EST. Thus, if you worked in the Central Time Zone, it came at 11:00 a.m. The Naval Observatory (or whatever it is called now) has been transmitting the time by radio for more than sixty-five years (that was about the time that I began listening to WWV, which now broadcasts, using the same call letters, from Fort Collins, Colorado. I do not know all the frequencies used, but I have listened on 2.5, 5.0, and 10.0 mghz (using a radio that was built in 1946). Please, let us not quibble about "coordination of watches."
I hate to quibble, but...
The time rules were the first numbered rules in the rule books. Rule No. 1 was that the time from the U.S. Naval Observatory would be obtained at a certain hour and transmitted to all points. (CB&Q 1900 book says 4pm central, 3pm mountain. CRI&P 1904 book says 12 noon central, 11 am mountain.) So there is a time standard. When going on duty engine and train men where either to check their watches against a Standard Clock, or if one wasn't available, with someone who had a watch with Standard time. Upon checking they were to fill out a form (often train or engine registers would have a space for this) and note any variation. Later era rule books and our current GCOR codified a variance of 30 seconds fast or slow. Out side of that range the watch must be changed to the correct time. Those two 1900 era books don't mention an allowable variance, but say they must be noted. I've seen a picture of an AT&SF standard clock from a later era that had a sign, "This clock is 1 second slow." So as long as you knew how much your watch deviated (within allowable reason) you would be good to go. You could, of course, correct your watch when comparing it, but you may not have too.
So while there may be a matter of seconds in the difference between times operators used in O-S ing trains, I doubt it matters. I would guess the timing between stations or mile posts was done on the train by someone using their own watch. (When I time mile posts to check the speedometer I don't look at my watch at the first MP and ask the conductor for the time at the second MP.) It wouldn't matter if that person's watch was fast or slow as long as it didn't gain or lose time during the timings. I imagine a few people had their time pieces out, each timing between points on that train.
Jeff
All clocks and watches were set to the second at noon EST everyday. OS'ing time was, I believe, set by the railroad at the descretion of the OS'ing operator...thus minute one could be anywhere from zero minute 31 to one minute 30 but may have been more defined by local or railroad practice. In Europe, public timetable often reflect the quarter and half minute. So, under timetable and train order, time was precise to the second but I don't think it is so restrcted today, especially in freight operations; even commuter roads proclaim a 5 or 6 minute window for "on time" perfromance but how close their operating time may be tighter.
henry6 tree68: After coupling his steamer to a hot NYC passenger train at Harmon, an engineer got his orders: "Do not arrive in Albany before....." Actually that is a standard train order which sets a schedule for an extra train or a regulat train under special circumstances.
tree68: After coupling his steamer to a hot NYC passenger train at Harmon, an engineer got his orders: "Do not arrive in Albany before....."
Actually that is a standard train order which sets a schedule for an extra train or a regulat train under special circumstances.
My take (and, as I recall, the gist of the anecdote) was that the engineer had a free hand to run pretty much as fast as he wanted, but don't get to Albany early.
I'm sure there were other considerations (like ride quality, slow orders, etc) involved.
BaltACD I can't speak to what the ATSF procedures were in 1905....however, when I broke in, telegraph was still active on the division - At NOON every day a signal was sent over the telegraph wire that all locations with Standard Clocks and all telegraph operators that had clocks were required to set and regulate their clocks in accordance with the signal that was being sent. My understanding is that the signal originated from the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. What other carriers may have used I don't know, however, since Time was a routine statement in Time Table & Train Orders railroading I am certain there was a daily procedure for all clocks on the system to be synchronized.
No it was not giving the engineer a free wheeling hand but a restrictive hand. Free wheeling hand would be given with an order to "run extra" or to run to Albany. But this type order was a standard operating procedure to set a schedule for the train and to allow others to know the train was running, it was expected to be at or pass such and such a station by a particular time after which its rights were lost, that other trains and work crews had to clear or not clear according to rules and timetable instructions. If the train could not make the instructed schedule he would have to abide by other rules and regulaitons as prescribed by ruls and timetable instructions including but not limited to clearing the main until further ordered. The order was not just for the benefit of the train receiving the order(s) but also for every train, work crew, operators, agents, etc. affected duirng the time period and distance of the order. Train orders were precise instruments and not to allow any one to take matters into one's hand such as making better time than the timetable or the railroad structure or eqouiment would allow.
Think about this: Even if you are only keeping time to the minute, you have to regulate your clocks and watches to the exact minute. That means that everyone’s minute begins at the same second.
Otherwise, if you are one minute off what your watch calls for according to schedule; and if your watch is one minute off perfect time, then you are two minutes off schedule.
The standard telegraph daily time signal was an elaborate countdown to exactly the top of the hour to the second. Operators stood by ready to set their time to the exact second marking the top of the hour.
Here is an antique railroad watch, and it has a second hand:
http://0.tqn.com/d/antiques/1/0/u/Z/RailroadRepeater.jpg
henry6All clocks and watches were set to the second at noon EST everyday.
Hate to bust your bubble - the work ethic of those that maintained clocks in those days was much stricter than what you see today. Those that maintained clocks took getting it right SERIOUSLY![
quote user="timz"]
henry6: All clocks and watches were set to the second at noon EST everyday.
[/quote]
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