UP GENEVA IL SUB

[condi]

WOULD ANYONE KNOW IF THE UP IS GOING TO EXTEND THE 3 MAIN LINE FROM WEST, CHICAGO THUR TO THE WEST SIDE OF GENEVA?????

THANKS CONRAD

[CShaveRR]

It's supposedly in the works, Conrad--and from what I've read, it should be done by next year. It looks like there are a lot of small obstacles, such as the Fox River and some too-tight overpasses, to prevent this from being a quick-and-easy job. I hope to see it, though!

[condi]

CARL 

THANKS FOR THE INFO. I CROSS OVER THE PECK RD BRIDGE SEVERAL DAYS A WEEK FROM THE LAYOUT THAT SURE LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE TIGHT.

CONRAD

[CShaveRR]

Yeah, and such a new bridge, too! Randall is another tight one. I guess the piers over the Fox River could accommodate another set of spans. And I understand that they've made alternative plans for the parking spaces they'll be losing in downtown Geneva.

[Bob-Fryml]

CShaveRR

Yeah, and such a new bridge, too! Randall is another tight one. I guess the piers over the Fox River could accommodate another set of spans. And I understand that they've made alternative plans for the parking spaces they'll be losing in downtown Geneva.

Carl:-

Last October I had occasion to drive through Dekalb, Ill. and if there's anyplace that west suburban commuter service should end, it's Dekalb.  Between the Northern Illinois University campus population and what appears to be a respectable number of local citizenry living in that area, Dekalb strikes me as being an ideal candidate for heavy rail passenger train service. 

• Has Metra made any short-to-medium term plans to extend service that far west?
• Would extending service to Dekalb require another county to provide taxpayer support for such service - and do you suppose the locals would resist that? 

 

[CarlHa]

Here is link from METRA about the project  http://www.metraupwest.com/improvements_updates.shtml

[CShaveRR]

Bob, I think I remember that in the pre-Amtrak days, when CNW was trying to get rid of its daily round trip to Clinton, it offered to run commuter trains to DeKalb about four times daily in exchange. We all know where that went.

Yes, DeKalb County would have to provide support for Metra, and the sales taxes there would go up. And UP would want Metra to fund their addition of a third track from Elburn to DeKalb. I don't see anything like that happening for a while.

It would be a good idea, though--the residential development has expanded into DeKalb County, and Maple Park and Cortland are seeing a lot of new houses being built (or they were, just before the housing bust). And once you're at Cortland, it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to DeKalb. If such a thing were to happen, I would hope that they'd build a new station closer to NIU, But then parking would be a problem. The best place for a station, in terms of parking, would be at the west end of town, near the stadium. But that wouldn't help the rest of the campus too much.

Then they'd probably want a new coach yard out there, to replace the nearly-new one at Elburn.

Oh, I'd love to see this all happen! But I suspect I won't.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The RTA's service area is defined in its enabling statute to be Cook, Lake, Dupage, Will, Kane and McHenry Counties.  Expansion to additional counties (Kendall and DeKalb would be most likely) may require action by the General Assembly.

[Chris30]

Hello,

Last I heard numero uno on the priority list was the third track between 25th Street in Melrose Park and Park in Elmhurst to provide extra capacity for freights going to / coming from the IHB. Again, last I heard it's in the planning / design stage. I suspect that the third track will also be (re) built from 25th east to Vale in River Forest at some point. There's also the planned bridge at 25th Street that is part of CREATE.

The infrastructure / new crossovers and signal upgrades between West Chicago and Elmhurst is in progress. I suspect that the third track between West Chicago and Peck Road is also in the planning stages. I don't think it's the bridges at Peck or Randall that are the issue; it's the lack of a bridge at Roosevelt Road that will need to be built as part of this project. Guess: 5 years depending on funding for the Roosevelt Rd bridge.

I sure hope that the new crossovers are better than the old ones:

"Its only a CNW commuter train .But whats rare is its crossover switches on the center track .Here in Wheaton there were three crossover's in the 70's .The crews are throwing switches for track one after loading on the center platform at the old Wheaton station.The tracks are in poor shape with mud and little rock in this 1974 photo" -- photo by Mark Llanuza

[CShaveRR]

What a (ugh!) shot! It probably captured CNW trackage at about its worst, before the Federal 4R grant was used to improve it. I remember that they preferred to put the coal trains on the center track, because it was the one with the welded rail. If Train 245 had been instituted by this time, it was the hottest train on the line, authorized to travel at 45 m.p.h. instead of 40.

Within two years the track had been upgraded to the point where the Falcons could hit 70 in spots. Now, of course, 70 is the timetable speed limit for all freights (equipment restrictions and other factors reduce that), and the track is maintained to FRA Class 5 standards, which allow trains to travel at 90.

I haven't seen where the crossovers will be placed, but they might be close to this site. Don't know about the precise location for the new Lombard crossovers, either, but there used to be hand-throw crossovers in Lombard (east of the station) as well.

[billio]

Bob-Fryml

Carl:-

Last October I had occasion to drive through Dekalb, Ill. and if there's anyplace that west suburban commuter service should end, it's Dekalb.  Between the Northern Illinois University campus population and what appears to be a respectable number of local citizenry living in that area, Dekalb strikes me as being an ideal candidate for heavy rail passenger train service. 

• Has Metra made any short-to-medium term plans to extend service that far west?
• Would extending service to Dekalb require another county to provide taxpayer support for such service - and do you suppose the locals would resist that? 

Good point, excellent questions.  You are correct in that DeKalb would make a terrific (and logical) terminus for UP West Line METRA service (thinking regionally and long term, it might also make sense to extend ex-MILW west line service out to Rockford).   

Alas, there's the rub:  METRA's service area is (I believe by statute -- if I'm wrong, please fell free to correct) limited to suburban Cook County plus the five so-called "Collar Counties" -- DuPage, Kane, Lake, McHenry, and Will.  DeKalb lies outside the collar counties, in (where else) DeKalb County.  METRA service to ANY point in DeKalb County would involve a)  annexing DeKalb to the collar counties, a process which would probably require the assent of the legislature and a sign-off from Chicago's City Hall; b)  having a METRA board member appointed from DeKalb to "represent" his county's interests in METRA matters; and c) getting DeKalb residents to vote to tax themselves for a service that really would affect few of their numbers. Of these conditions, (c) is definitely the most difficult to bring about because, DeKalb city aside, the county is mostly agricultural, and few farmers commute downtown:  an extremely hard sell.  Moreover, a DeKalb board member would almost certainly be a Republican appointee, and another Republican could tip the power balance in METRA's board, which represents a great deal of compromise to even be in existence, so for a DeKalb member to come aboard (Get it? -- bad pun), some heavy back room dealing would have to take place before any wheeling can begin.

Based on the foregoing, one surmises that it will be awhile before anyone seriously broaches the question of a service extension to DeKalb -- or anyplace else outside the collar counties.  No matter how good, logical, or well-founded the idea.

[Chris30]

Hello,

I found some notes on this subject on the Chicago & North Western Historical Society North Western Lines 2009, Number 2 news section.

Per details from a February 2009 Geneva City Council meeting the '[c]onstruction of the third main track between Kress and Peck will proceed in two segments, the first being from a point west of the Fox River Bridge to Peck (about three miles)"."Work on this segment will begin in 2010 or early 2011 and be finished about a year later. The $17 million cost is being funded 50 percent by Metra (using unspent funds from the Elburn extension project) and 50 percent by UP. Funding for the second segment has not been finalized, but Metra hopes to complete the third track to Kress by 2013."

Note: Just for fun... That $17 million price tag for three miles of new track works out to @$1,073.233 per foot. Or, @$89.436 per inch.

? Question ?: In the picture that I posted above with welded rail on the center track, did that rail come from the Chicago Great Western main that the CNW ripped up (western Illinois?) after the takeover in 1968?

CC

[Chris30]

Hello,

Listed below is a link to Metra Connects which has details regarding Metra projects:

http://metraconnects.metrarail.com/

Look for the tab on the far right for the UP West Line. There are a bunh of items to chose from.

Thanks,

CC

 

[CShaveRR]

Chris, I suppose the welded rail could have come from the CGW. It was there in 1971 soon after I hired out, and the CGW line between Byron and Dubuque had been torn out by then, I believe.

[condi]

Just had a thought. Rather then putting in a 3rd rail from West Chicago thru Geneva has anythought been given to the branch off the geneva sub from West Chicago ending on the West side of Randall rd in St Charles. This branch has very little traffic and should not need lot of trackwork due to no need for high speeds.conrad

[Bob-Fryml]

Right on!  Traffic along North Ave., Ill. hwy. 64, is just horrendous through Saint Charles - especially at rush hour.  Establishing commuter train service along the remains of the C.G.W., including over the Fox River and into the west side of town, would be a real plus for the area.

Indulging in a fantasy for a moment, I wonder if a connecting one or two car shuttle running between West Chicago and Saint Charles might not fit the bill.  Perhaps a shuttle equipped with 600-volts d.c. overhead.  And the equipment wouldn't be too hard to design either - I'm sure that either the Fox River Trolley Museum and/or the Illinois Railway Museum would have a full set of specifications and erection drawings that they would be happy to loan.  Wouldn't a bright red and light gray color scheme for the equipment look great as well?

[EJE818]

The new crossovers are being put in in Lombard, and a second set of crossovers is set to be put just east of Wheaton, which would require closing a grade crossing, which would be replaced with a pedestrian underpass. New signals have went up in Lombard, Glen Ellyn and just west of the Wheaton depot. I was just in Wheaton two days ago, and it didn't appear any work to put in the crossovers east of the depot was underway. I've heard once all this work is done, expect the amount of Metra trains on the Geneva Sub to increase. With crossovers going in at Wheaton and Lombard, I bet they'll run trains from Chicago to both of those stations, then flip them back to the city, similar to what they do on the BNSF racetrack. Also the bridge in Geneva was mentioned before, yes, the bridge's piers are wide enough for at least three mains. They plan on building a parking garage to make up for any parking spaces lost at the Geneva Station. Hopefully once this is all done, trains will be able to move down the Geneva Sub at quicker speeds, and the amount of stopped trains will hopefully be drastically reduced.

[CShaveRR]

Robby, I've been looking all over for those crossovers in Lombard, and can't find 'em yet! Where are they (I'd heard they'd be east of the station)?

Signal bridge locations I've seen (so far):

1. Finley Road, Lombard.

2. East of Taylor Avenue, Glen Ellyn.

3. Just east of Park Boulevard, Glen Ellyn.

4. On the curve near the Glen Ellyn/Wheaton limits.

5. Near the F. W. Wheaton Lumber Company spur, Wheaton.

6. East of County Farm Road (not sure which side of the pedestrian overpass).

7. Winfield Road, Winfield.

I have heard, but not confirmed, that the grade crossing to be closed in Wheaton will be the one nearest the Billy Graham Center (a pedestrian crossing here would be very logical), between President and Cross Streets.

I have not noticed any signal bridges going up yet that would serve as home signals for either of these crossover control points, assuming that we have the correct locations. Also, we would need at least one signal bridge location east of the crossovers in Lombard (and probably more, assuming that they want to fill in the blocks all along here).

[EJE818]

The grade crossing you mentioned would be the correct one, the one just west of President Street by the college. East of Lombard would be the ideal place as there are no crossings around there,

[CShaveRR]

Robby, we took a little ride out that way after work and volunteer duties this afternoon. Chase Street is the crossing they want to close. Looks good to me--straight stretch of track for the crossovers, and a nice hump up to the tracks (semi-trucks prohibited) that would be not too drastic a grade for a pedestrian tunnel. Might be a bit of fancy shoehorning between the tracks and the Prairie Path, though.

Took a better look at the signal bridges installed so far, and maintain my belief that none of the bridges that will contain home signals for these crossovers have been put up. However, I'll have to amend my statement to say that two new bridges will have to appear east of the Lombard crossovers.

Why? Because from the looks of things, there will be advance-approach aspects for the crossovers. Both the Glern Ellyn Park Boulevard and city-limit-curve signals will have two heads for westbound traffic and one for eastbound (both are east of the Chase Street crossing, where the crossover is expected to be built). I have not been able to get close to the signal near Taylor Avenue in Glen Ellyn (bike trip will take care of that!), but the Finley Road signal has two heads eastbound, one westbound. (I suspect that the Taylor signal bridge is the same.)

What bothers me is that the lower heads on these double-headed signals appears to have only one light (hard to tell for sure--everything's covered). In order to display an Approach Diverging signal, you'd need a pair of yellows, but the lower head would be red to display a clear signal or a stop. Or, perhaps, it may not light up at all for anything other than diverging. Haven't seen it done that way on our line before, but then there was a time when you didn't see flashing yellows, either!

[jeffhergert]

CShaveRR

 

What bothers me is that the lower heads on these double-headed signals appears to have only one light (hard to tell for sure--everything's covered). In order to display an Approach Diverging signal, you'd need a pair of yellows, but the lower head would be read to display a clear signal or a stop. Or, perhaps, it may not light up at all for anything other than diverging. Haven't seen it done that way on our line before, but then there was a time when you didn't see flashing yellows, either!

 Carl, do you know what speed the new crossovers will be good for?  If they'll be good for 50mph, like the newest ones across Iowa, that bottom single head will display a green light (Yellow over Green, Approach Clear 50) when the crossover is lined for a crossover moves.  Otherwise the single head will be dark.  Depending on block spacing, there could also be a signal in advance displaying a Yellow over Flashing Green, Approach Clear 60. 

Should the crossovers be good for 60, they'll omit the Approach Clear 50.  We have one 60mph turnout at Missouri Valley.  They are the ones with three switch machines, two for the points, one for the frog.

If they want to use an Approach Diverging, that single head could just light up yellow for the diverging move.  We have a couple like that out here in the wilderness.

Jeff   

[CShaveRR]

Thanks for this information, Jeff! Just knowing that a dark lower signal is an option opens up a lot of possibilities here. It still looks like there are two signals in advance of the projected home signals, each with two heads. I guess I'll have to count switch machines once these crossovers are in place (they'll be unlike anything else this side of Kane County if they have more than one!).

While watching (and waiting for) trains at Geneva not too long ago, we noticed the signal right at the station showing a flashing yellow westbound. I presume (can't remember for myself) that there's another block signal between there and the control point at Peck (and I also think a trip out there's in order to check out those switch machines!).