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What it is going to take for High Speed Rail to succeed?

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:55 AM
BT CPSO 266
Look, America is sick of the current air travel conditions and are starting to get sick of driving. Some look at it and they don't care how much it cost, if it improves their commutes or travel (rail is kid of in between travel) by either using the train or using a less constrained highway network or airways than so be it. 
Is this proof of the Yogi Berra axiom, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:04 AM
BT CPSO 266
if it improves their commutes or travel (rail is kid of in between travel) by either using the train or using a less constrained highway network or airways than so be it. 
Most highway congestion is urban/suburban and is due to commuting. The fastest and cheapest way to alleviate it is to do transit and commuter rail, not HSR.

The next fastest and cheapest thing you can do is divert trucks to highway. The whole Crescent Corridor project NS has going costs only $2B, a good chunk of it from NS's own pocket and won't cost taxpayers a dime in operating subsidies. (Just the opposite, the profits made by NS will increase Fed. income tax revenue!)

Of course, the details are important. It would be hard to do more transit around NYC and there are some intercity links where there is highway congestion with little chance for diverting truck traffic. There are no absolutes here. The solution has to fit the circumstances. A national, "one size fits all" HSR plan would be wasteful.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:28 AM

oltmannd
  

Most highway congestion is urban/suburban and is The fastest and cheapest way to alleviate it is to do transit and commuter rail, not HSR.

The next fastest and cheapest thing you can do is divert trucks to highway. The whole Crescent Corridor project NS has going costs only $2B, a good chunk of it from NS's own pocket and won't cost taxpayers a dime in operating subsidies. (Just the opposite, the profits made by NS will increase Fed. income tax revenue!)

Of course, the details are important. It would be hard to do more transit around NYC and there are some intercity links where there is highway congestion with little chance for diverting truck traffic. There are no absolutes here. The solution has to fit the circumstances. A national, "one size fits all" HSR plan would be wasteful.

These assumptions are wrong...at least for the east.  Highway congestion is found most in urban areas, yes, but if you have traveled either I80 east and west in Pennsylvania or through Ohio, or I81 South from PA into Virginia, you'll find trucks bumber to bumper and over the bumps at 70+ mph.  I81 has been screaming for help.  NS has the answer but is looking for the Feds to help them help alleviate the congestion.  And as for finding more rapid transit around NYC, its not as hard as it sounds.  There are many underutilized or abandoned roadbeds and rights of way which can accomodate anything from light rail to 79+mph heavy rail...just gotta get the politicians on the right pages and the NIMBYS paid off.  And you are right, a "one size fits all" HSR plan is absurd.  The only two things, legal and commercial, which fits all are McDonalds and Coca Cola.  And even then there are some regional differences.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:52 AM
henry6
but if you have traveled either I80 east and west in Pennsylvania or through Ohio, or I81 South from PA into Virginia, you'll find trucks bumber to bumper and over the bumps at 70+ mph.  I81 has been screaming for help
Yes! Yes!
henry6
And as for finding more rapid transit around NYC, its not as hard as it sounds.  There are many underutilized or abandoned roadbeds and rights of way which can accomodate anything from light rail to 79+mph heavy rail
The trick is getting them in and out of The City.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:08 AM

There's no trick.  There is plenty of space for more tunnels and bridges.  But sensibly...I don't like stub ending a tunnel under Manhatten Island but rather see a through route between NJ and LI...would love to see a downtown NJT tunnel  continue on to LIRR's Atlantic Terminal or the new uptown tunnels go on to LIC.  Some of the subway tunnels might have to be used or moved.  But there is a lot that can be done if warrented and thought out long term.

BTW: run through stations could mean run through services eliminating deadheading and in city storage; more available and usable regional public transportation; better use of equipment and crews (don't start the union arguement or the inter agency domain arguement, think positive, out of the box); consolidation of all kinds of services in outlying areas rather than in inner city or along the waterfronts.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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