Ed I agree but remember with all you said I was one who told the UTU that if the new hire is at 80% pay only charge him 80% dues and if he gets fired only fire hiim 80%. they thought i was being funny I wasnt.
Ok weve heard from railroaders and as you see we have mentioned some things you non-railroaders didnt know. Now its your turn and yes it may get testy but try not to slam or bait anyone in giving your opinion, be honest and give reasons why and then us railroaders will answer in a calm and cool style.
To be very truthful I have been in these talks before and my dog wont fight this I do want to know what the new way of thinking is of non-union or union haters are. And everyone remeber that this is a disscussion and that if we talk instead of yell we might be able to learn how the other side thinks and maybe change a opinion or 2. Now where did i lay my bottle of wild turkey (hic) hey Ed my mirror arrived who Cracked it?
edblysard I love the 50k plus claims of pay..wish it was true, but the fact is unless you are an overtime hound or work a road job that hogs out every day, or you live on the extra board, 50k is a hard earned amount. Most of us don’t get away from home terminal pay, air pay, short hand pay, unprotected man pay, none of the arbitraries the pre 85 guys get.
I was one of the pre-'85 guys. When I left the C&NW in '93, the basic day for engineer on a 2-man (foreman and helper) yard engine was $178. 178x5=890x52=46280. And that was back in '93. I don't know what rails are getting now.
zardoz edblysard I love the 50k plus claims of pay..wish it was true, but the fact is unless you are an overtime hound or work a road job that hogs out every day, or you live on the extra board, 50k is a hard earned amount. Most of us don’t get away from home terminal pay, air pay, short hand pay, unprotected man pay, none of the arbitraries the pre 85 guys get. Ed, FYI: I was one of the pre-'85 guys. When I left the C&NW in '93, the basic day for engineer on a 2-man (foreman and helper) yard engine was $178. 178x5=890x52=46280. And that was back in '93. I don't know what rails are getting now.
the basic day on a road switcher here is 208.00 a day so its made a 30.00 dollar increase in 16 years and most of that was in 2001 after you do the differance on cost of living and taxes we have not made that be a jump in pay
I'm a non-railroader, retired professor, though we were unionized. Given the responsibilities train crews have, the pay scale surely does not seem excessive, if anything on the low side, and not keeping pace with inflation.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I've looked at those numbers myself--and the contracts---
SHEEESH!!! How do you guys do all that? The contracts seem fairly standard so I'm not sure why there is alot of hooting from the management side in these affairs to begin with. The differences a lot of the time are not that huge.. It seems a little silly in that the arbs usually end up 'siding'( if that is even the word to be using here), with the unions which leads to my question of why not just go and work towards the dang thing instead of allowing this whole schmozzel to devolve to the arbitration boards in the first place.
I'd also agree with Schlimm--the pay could stand some boosting---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
On my railroad, a Class 3, Switching/terminal road...
Switch Engine Foreman, (me)....$25.4118 hour...8 hour day is $203.29.
Switchman helper...$24.3772 hour...8 hour day is $195.017
No clue on engineer pay, but a little better than ours.
Standard 11 day half, (pay period) $2236.19 or $4472.38 a month..(this is an average) there are 10 day halfs.
Or, $53,668.56 a year before taxes, union dues, 401 K, medical insurance co pay and job insurance.and life insurance.
23 17 46 11
the truth is you cant hurt them, but you can get there attention by getting into their pocket book and then they sit right up and fight, sometimes we can win but mostly we break even. until we have solidarity nobody will win.
It only seems to me that the guys who started trouble on the othr thread dont want to be heard this time, Im not baiting here But i can only say that you guys was baiting some very good men into a fight maybe hoping it was going to be me. sorry to disappoint you guys ,
Crandell I thank you for allowing me to try and get a discussion and some view points out in the open, and was really wanting to know on both sides of the boarder and also both sides of the labor union or non-union and canadian and US. Im sure that it would have went smooth, but the non-union side didnt want to talk this time. So I am saying if the members on here want it left open so be it, I myself will back away and let it go I might reply if warrented otherwise in my opinion you can lock it down and we can say we tried.and move on.
I think it's been an informative and civil discussion that has no reason to be locked. I feel a bit better educated on working conditions and wages and appreciative of the hard work you guys do. Thanks!
Wabash1, you made it easy, and I thank you for your approach to the topic. I learned some things myself, and maybe we'll both continue to learn, if not in this thread, then in others.
I am happy this has worked for you. I am very certain that the other participants are just has happy and pleased for you.
-Crandell
edblysardOr, $53,668.56 a year before taxes, union dues, 401 K, medical insurance co pay and job insurance.and life insurance.
I'm going to throw in a question---what is a good rough estimate of the average percentage of deductions --taxes and all else. If I'm anywhere near correct I'd be suspecting about 40%?
Pretty close.
The RR indusrty is so much like the OTR Trucking field it is Scary. Except there we have next to no Unions. Here is what is expected of a Driver in that Industry. Get up from where you found a place to park the night before and took your 10 hour Mandated break. Go eat if possible. Then Do a Pre Trip Inspection on your Rig. Your Clock for the day is running. Then get rolling head towards your destiation get there Wait to Unload waisting time. Get unloaded head for reload point get there wait to reload. Reload then head out. Now pray you can get out of the CIty and find a parking space BEFORE YOUR 14 hour clock is up.
Next day start over. Heading west towards CA drive 11 hours tell dispatcher that after emptying out in CA will need reset to get fresh 70. Stop after dealing with traffic weather and anything else that happens. Fuel and shut down in Big Springs NE. Next day get up again and make it to Wendover NV for last stop before Stockton the next day. Get up grab fuel and PRAY LIKE HELL Donner is not requiring chains and Truckee is being nice to drivers. Make delivery and find a hole to climb into for 34 hours to rebuild hours.
Now what I listed is a normal trip for OTR drivers that run solo between Chicago and the west Coast. With our HOS regulations and lack of parking we really have fun trying to get a space sometimes to sleep. Yet the States constantly refuse us to idle to sleep or close down rest areas that force us to drive tired. On the training standards after 6 weeks of school and as few as 4 weeks of Comapny TRAINING you get 21 yr old people that I would not trust with a Potato gun hauling anything that will fit on a truck.
Luckily on the Nasty Stuff Exploisivves and Most of the real nasty chemicals most comapnyies want at least 3-4 years drive time before they will let you haul it. Can you imagine a driver with 1 month hauling Explosives I have seen it with my own eyes. People do this everyday and for 30-40K a year and the Goverment tells people that have not worked in years come drive a truck it requires no skill. THE HELL IT DOES NOT. What are you going to do when a 16year old cuts you off and your hauling an unbaffled tanker of Hydrochloric Acid called do not make a sudden move if you do Your comapny will be eating ONE HELL OF A CLEAN UP BILL.
Mr. Benton
Been there done that, Dont want to do that again.Ive seen people quit the railroad saying Im going to be a trucker I laugh at them in 6 months they are begging for the railroad job back. thing is railroads usually wont hire you back. The most common thing both jobs have in common is common sense and both need lots of it.
blownout cylinder edblysardOr, $53,668.56 a year before taxes, union dues, 401 K, medical insurance co pay and job insurance.and life insurance. I'm going to throw in a question---what is a good rough estimate of the average percentage of deductions --taxes and all else. If I'm anywhere near correct I'd be suspecting about 40%?
I paid 32% last year I dont think it changed for this year, Ask again at tax time when all of OBAMAS stimulas money is due to be returned.
A couple of months ago I caught the Boone (former CNW territory) yard engine off the engineer's extra board. The job only had a foreman, no helper. $210.38 straight time, $10.75 short crew and $5.00 for being licensed.
I'm not sure, but the straight time may be the UP rate. Former CNW engineers may make a bit more than that.
Jeff
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