This is a shocker because Homewood is about as idyllic a suburb as can be found anywhere. Looks like they knew this guy was coming. This is from the Chicago Tribune today.
Canadian National Railway police killed a man matching the description of a parole jumper sought by Michigan authorities in a shootout near CN tracks in south suburban Homewood Monday night.
Shortly after 9 p.m., two officers responded to a call of a suspicious person hiding in bushes on Elm Road at Harwood Avenue--along the east side of the CN tracks near the commuter rail station--said CN spokesman Patrick Waldron.
"As they arrived at the scene, officers identified themselves and ordered the man to come out toward them," Waldron said. "The man refused and ran south along the tracks toward the commuter parking lot."
One of the officers pulled a marked CN squad car in front of him in the parking lot and ordered him to stop, Waldron said.
The man stopped, and as a CN police officer got out of the squad car, "the man pulled out a gun and fired at least one shot at the officer. The police officer returned fire striking the [offender]," Waldron said.
The 48-year-old man, identified by the Cook County medical examiner's office as Robert Craig Sherrill, of 2915 Western Street in Detroit, was pronounced dead at Advocate South Suburban Hospital in Hazel Crest. A handgun was recovered at the scene, Waldron said.
Sherrill had gunshot wounds in the neck and chest, according to the medical examiner's office.
The officers were not injured in the shootout, Waldron said.
According to a Michigan Department of Corrections Web site, Sherrill absconded from parole March 15. He had been paroled Jan. 2 on a jail-breaking conviction.
CN police have jurisdiction over the incident because the man was found near its tracks, Homewood authorities said.
Illinois State Police and CN police continue to investigate the incident, Waldron said.
I can't express my feelings regarding this incident on this forum as it would violate the rules regarding non-railroad related content or expressions...so I won't.
Poor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this.
Lest anyone doubt that railroad police are real police, this ought to remove that doubt (except maybe in Wyoming ?). Plus this acknowledgement of same from the article: "CN police have jurisdiction over the incident because the man was found near its tracks, Homewood authorities said." [emphasis added - PDN.] "Jurisdiction" is a special word in this context, with deep legal meaning - it means "in charge of, has authority over, control of, or is responsible for", etc.
Also shows that these RR police know what they're about: 2 officers - not merely 1 - responded, attempted to defuse and handle the encounter, and when that didn't work, at least 1 of them showed that he knows how to handle his weapon. Unfortunate, but probably necessary, for the safety of the traveling public at the nearby commuter station.
- Paul North.
UlrichPoor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR I don't know...from here, it looks like CN did things right in this case.
That was my thoughts. If there was a platform nearby better to stop him there than have him go for a hostage or random shootings of civillians waiting to go to work/wherever.
Dan
I agree...although they seem to be having a run of bad luck..
Can someone give us a little insight on railroad police - how are they trained, are they a contract company as opposed to railroad workers, and are they all armed just as city/county/state officers or in some juridictions do they have to call the city/county/state officers to handle a more involved situation?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I have heard and read that RR police are often former municipal law enforcement (maybe "municipal" isn't exactly the right word, but I mean former city/town police, sheriffs dept., etc.).
eolafan I can't express my feelings regarding this incident on this forum as it would violate the rules regarding non-railroad related content or expressions...so I won't.
Big-city police have a very dangerous and difficult job; I give them credit when it is due.
CShaveRRUlrich Poor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this. I don't know...from here, it looks like CN did things right in this case.
Ulrich Poor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this.
This might be bias on my part, but if an individual fires a shot at ANYBODY and the target responds with deadly force, the coroner should record the death as a suicide. IMHO, anyone who fires at a law enforcer in uniform and/or with a clearly marked vehicle is trying to get himself killed.
In this case, the perp succeeded.
Chuck (MSgt, retired)
Generally they are commissioned police officers with jurisdiction in any state the railroad does business. They have levels of training generally as high as the local or state police, but have different expertise, they may know more about hazmat or drug interdiction. Railroad police typically have their own K9 units, uniformed officers and plain clothes officers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
CN Police 1
Scumbag 0
Mookie Can someone give us a little insight on railroad police - how are they trained, are they a contract company as opposed to railroad workers, and are they all armed just as city/county/state officers or in some juridictions do they have to call the city/county/state officers to handle a more involved situation?
Mookie - As a start to an answer, if you can find it:
Chicago knights Trains, February 1993 page 62 Chicago & North Western's police ( C&NW, POLICE, SECURITY, "ZIERKE, JIM", TRN )
Here's the little bit that I can contribute - I expect that there are numerous variations on the answers - by state (Wyoming ?), by railroad, by the rank and seniority of the person, etc., but very generally - and subject to amplification/ correction/ supplementation by those who are more closely involved than me:
Training - varies a lot. Most states require basic firearms training at minimum;
Contract company ("rent-a-cop") - I haven't seen that yet - they've all been railroad employees that I've met;
All armed - in uniform, yes; in plainclothes or public appearances - not that often;
Authority/ powers - just the same as a municipal or state police officer. They can handle as much by themselves as they choose; but nothing stops them from calling on other police agencies as a "mutual aid" or back-up if needed.
There must be a professional organization with a website and newsletter on this. Maybe someone can find it, or ask these questions of a RR cop that they know and post the answers here for more specifics.
tomikawaTTCShaveRRUlrichPoor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this. I don't know...from here, it looks like CN did things right in this case.This might be bias on my part, but if an individual fires a shot at ANYBODY and the target responds with deadly force, the coroner should record the death as a suicide. IMHO, anyone who fires at a law enforcer in uniform and/or with a clearly marked vehicle is trying to get himself killed. In this case, the perp succeeded. Chuck (MSgt, retired)
CShaveRRUlrichPoor CN just can't win in IL. So much trouble with the EJ&E purchase...then brush fires...and now this. I don't know...from here, it looks like CN did things right in this case.
Mookie - and others who are interested -
From a Google search for "railroad police" (as a phrase), I quickly found BNSF's webpages, starting at:
http://www.bnsf.com/tools/resourceprotection/police_services.html
BNSF calls it their "Resource Protection Solutions Team" and "Police Solutions Team". Check out all the internal links in the text for duties, responsibilities, hiring standards, training, and K-9 units, the link below for the Brochure, and the links in the menu at the upper left for Canine Police, and especially for Railroad Special Agents to answer most of your questions at:
http://www.bnsf.com/tools/resourceprotection/railroad_special_agent.html
I'm very impressed by the effort that BNSF has put into this page, and their police force. If you think about it, it's unique - every other police department has to worry only about their local jurisdiction, but this railroad has to coordinate with the laws and officials of 28 states plus the Federal government and 2 Canadian provinces as well ! Here's an excerpt:
"Our community is best described as being 34,000 miles long and 100 feet wide, crisscrossing hundreds of local and state jurisdictions along the way."
The railroad also has 40,000 employees to be involved with.
Firearms Training information is at:
http://www.bnsf.com/tools/resourceprotection/firearms_training.html
Defensive Tactics information is at: http://www.bnsf.com/tools/resourceprotection/defensive_tactics.html
If you look at all of this, I'm confident that it will answer almost all of your questions, and that you'll be as impressed as I was. If you ever encounter a BNSF Special Agent in a casual way, it would certainly be a good basis to strike up a conversation.
I betcha that copper was glad he put in his range time.
Obviously the parole jumper didn't want to go back to prison. His possession of a firearm while on parole is a felony. He had a decision to make, and he chose wrong.
Makes me wonder if he had less respect because they were railroad police. Your thoughts?
I think the general concensus among the public will be less respect, just because he's railroad police, even though he acted appropiately. Railroad police are full-fledged police, BTW. They are no less than the guys you see on the road. Few people in the public seem to know this.
Sounds like the CN police work well with Homewood PD.
IMHO, anyone who fires at a law enforcer in uniform and/or with a clearly marked vehicle is trying to get himself killed. In this case, the perp succeeded. Chuck (MSgt, retired) -------------------- I get what you're saying, but thats not actually what suicide means. Suicide is a category of 'manner of death' (which is different from 'cause of death'). In this case, the manner of death is homicide because the SR's death was caused by the action of another person.
--------------------
I get what you're saying, but thats not actually what suicide means. Suicide is a category of 'manner of death' (which is different from 'cause of death'). In this case, the manner of death is homicide because the SR's death was caused by the action of another person.
So lets compromise and all this a police assisted suicide?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
More like "Victimization of one last person, and if a perfect finale, it will be the very one or more enforcement people upon whom society relies for security at home," type of suicide.
While the references to suicide vs. homicide are popping up, this isn't a "Suicide By Cop" type case.
The perp, while fleeing, shot at an officer who tried to stop his attempt at staying "free". If it were a suicide by cop case, he would have engaged the officers simply in order to force them to kill him.His motive was to continue fleeing, as scene by his attempt to keep running after being hailed.
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I was going to let this drop, but since the discussion is continuing, consider the following hypothetical scenarios of what I view as essentially self-inflicted death:
1) Perp shoots (and kills) himself;
2) Perp throws himself under a fast-moving freight train, about 50 cars back so the crew has no idea he was there and no opportunity to stop the train;
3) Perp steps in front of the locomotive of a fast-moving train about 50 feet before it gets to him, so that even though the engineer may see him at the last second, there's just not enough time to even apply the brakes;
4) Perp steps in front of a fast-moving police car about 50 feet before it gets to him, so that even though the officer may see him at the last second, there's just not enough time to even apply the brakes; [Something similar to this actually happened in Whitehall Twp. here about 10 years ago on a dark, rainy night - the word "horrific" doesn't start to apply to the results.]
5) Perp jumps into the crocodile pit at a zoo. The crocs do what comes naturally, and have him for lunch;
6) Perp does what Granite Railroader (above) calls a "suicide by cop" case - just confronting and shooting at the the officer without attempting to flee. The officer returns fire and kills the perp;
and finally,
7) Perp does what apparently happened here at Homewood - tries to flee, encounters officer, shoots at the the officer. The officer returns fire and kills the perp.
I would argue that there's not a huge difference among these scenarios. Other people are involved in all of them except 1) [only the perp] and 5) [the crocodiles]. But in those, the other people had no meaningful chance to avoid the perp's death - 2), 3), and 4) are obvious, I think.
Some will argue that 6) and 7) involving the police officer are different, because in their view the officer could theoretically choose to not shoot back - the officer's shooting back is supposedly a "volunatry" act. But I think that is fallacious - anytime someone shoots at a cop, he's entitled to and they have to expect that he's going to shoot back and try to kill them. That reaction is close to automatic by instinct, training, and tactics. It's not that different from jumping in with the crocodiles. The added wrinkle of the perp attempting to flee during the encounter doesn't change or subtract from the essence of what happened here - he shot at the officer and the officer returned fire. It's just like stepping in front of a fast-moving police car [4) above ]- only the mechanics are different.
That's how I see it, regardless of the administrative nuances that are later attached to it - "manner" vs. "cause" of death, etc. End of
Paul_D_North_Jr 6) Perp does what Granite Railroader (above) calls a "suicide by cop" case - just confronting and shooting at the the officer without attempting to flee. The officer returns fire and kills the perp;
While only slightly OT, you make some very interesting points.
I thought "suicide by cop" involved pointing a weapon at officers and NOT firing. The mere act of raising the weapon forces the officers to defend themselves by firing.
In our area we've had a several "average Joe Homeowners" with no history of violence do this -- walk out of their homes after some sort of disturbance to attract police and raise a handgun to the officers to draw their fire. Some were wounded by sharpshooters and survived, some were subdued with rubber bullets, and others were shot dead.
If you ever had a weapon directed at you in anger, you'll never forget it. Can't blame the cops for doing what they had to do to go home that day.
PZ
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