A friend of mine emailed me a PDF file orgionally from BNSF as part of their "Commit to Communicate" program. It is regarding a derailment on 12 January 2008 involving a grain train and 2 Z trains at Agusta, KS. Throughout the document it refers to the train at fault as a grain train and its symbol, GEDYDHT510, is that of a grain train. However, in the pictures, you can see that the cars are tarped BN coalporters. I can't imagine that BNSF would incorrectly lable the train as a grain train or that they would have to wrong symbol. This leads me to ask if they use coal cars for grain shipments.
Maybe if they were short on grain car supplies, but practically, it doesnt make sense to use rotary dump only cars for grain service. Does anybody know if they do use coal cars and how/why?
Heres pictures
This is an unusual train that hauls corn byproduct including dried distiller grains (DDG) from Cargill's large corn processing complex at Eddyville, Iowa, to a feedlot at Dalhart, Texas, where the cars are rotary dumped. DDG is a byproduct of ethanol production and has a market, albeit at low prices, as a cattle feed. The covers prevent loss of contents and keep out precipitation and contaminates.
I don't know of any other regular use of cars designed for coal for hauling grain. It's happened on occasion when there were severe car shortages and heavy demand, but it's not a good practice unless the cars are regularly assigned and are either gondolas or have good doors, as you would have to clean the cars of coal before loading grain, and clean the cars of grain before loading coal, and check the doors for leakage. Also grain is not as dense as coal so the coal cars will cube out before they tare out: a 286K BethGonII is 4,520 CF level and a 286K corn car such as made by Trinity is 5,161 CF (wheat will load to 286K in a 4,750 CF car). DDGs are very low density and in a 286K car cube out at 6,351 CF.
RWM
Interesing. Photos I saw, possibly from the same source as shown here, lead me to wonder if the loads were DDG. The product dumped from the cars appeared to a fairly dark brown in color, too dark to be corn or most other grains. I didn't bother to bring the subject up in the original thread, because I thought it might just have been a result of the photo process.
This is the first I knew of a rotary dump for feed grains at a feed lot. (Or any other location.) They must move one hell of a lot of feed through that facility.
What happens to the first by-product produced at that feedlot?
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cargill (?) and someone else were working on a car for DDG that resembled a coal hopper, but had the removable tarp. I'm not saying those in the picture are them, but maybe modified cars for testing purposes?
The other day I saw a car with TILX intials (and don't remember the number) that looked like a open hopper with a roll across tarp system similiar to what you see on grain truck trailers. On the train list it was an empty (with a car code similiar to a covered hopper, RR designation not the AAR mechanical type) that had the notation about last containing a by product. It was going back to one of the ethanol producers.
Maybe Carl could shed some light on this.
Jeff
Old BN coal cars were changed over in Burlington Ia to have a tarp put on them for the Eddy trains.They roll on the Ottumwa Sub to Galesburg and then over to the Chilli to Ft Mad and then on the Marceline to KC.
These are pretty regular and are hot. I think we have like 3 days ( if that) to get them from Eddyville to Dalhart,and other locations.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
How economical is it shipping in coal cars? There is a significant loss of capacity verses the 6300cf class of cars. Also, to dump the cars I imagine the feedlot would have had to install a rotary dump and loop track. Granted rotary dump would be easier due to the charactoristics of DDGS and its resistance to flowing.
I worked at an ethanol plant loading out DDGS and ethanol and in the winter months we were able to load out 110+ tons yet in the summer it was a struggle to get 100 tons. There was a couple of times when a car would come back with a couple tons left in the hopper after its 3 week turn to either Mexico or Idaho and after that time it was a royal pain in the *** to bang that stuff out of the car.
Im just wondering if any of you guys who already know far more than me about this operation know how this method compares to covered hoppers. Also Id like to know about that TILX car if anybody knows more about it.
-Tom
gopherstate wrote:When I worked for the DM&E in the early 90's we hauled grain in open top coal hoppers fromSpringfield MN to Winona MN for a short time when cars where hard to get.These were 3 and 4 hopper dump bottom cars. This was a shuttle move between an elevatorand a barge loading facility. I don't remember how long we ran this train, but I'm sure it was short term. Some of the former CNW crews said the same thing was done in the 1970's. I don't think the cars were tarped, but I do remember always keeping an eye on the weather,the railroad was liable for any damage. I have also seen pictures of old stock cars converted to load grain by lining them with plywood. I know this happened on the BN in Nebraska. Matt
I think I mentioned in a previous thread that around 1970 IC actually had fibreglass tops-with hatches- built to cover coal hoppers so they could be used to haul grain. In the day, there was a considerable amount or relatively short grain hauls from country elevators to major grain terminals. For lack of storage, the country elevators had a big surge of shipments at harvest time and it was impossible to provide anything close to an adequate car supply with the existing grain covered hopper fleet.
By the way, prior to covered hoppers, grain moved in bulk in box cars. To keep the grain in the car, a wall made of wood boards was built inside the doorway leaving just enough space at the top of the doorway for the elevator loading shutes. When the car was unloaded, the boards were knocked out and then probably went on to become fuel for the bonfire at the pep-rally for the local high school's big game. Late in the box car era, reinforced kraft paper was employed as the grain door. Needless to say, there tended to be a considerable loss of grain when the permanent wood lined floors and walls were rather beat up from years of use (or misuse).
route_rock wrote: Old BN coal cars were changed over in Burlington Ia to have a tarp put on them for the Eddy trains.They roll on the Ottumwa Sub to Galesburg and then over to the Chilli to Ft Mad and then on the Marceline to KC. These are pretty regular and are hot. I think we have like 3 days ( if that) to get them from Eddyville to Dalhart,and other locations.
I saw one of these trains go through Wyaconda MO last year. On the end of the train were a couple Cargill grain hoppers, but all the rest were Burlington Northern Coalporters. Very interesting train.
I remember coal hoppers and gondolas being use during grain cars shortages. Some were tarped, but most weren't round here anyway. Part of the shortage in the 80's was from the Alphatoxon in corn, a lot of grain cars were already loaded and no one would take delivery, since it couldn't be used for food or feed till tested. Now it could be used for ethanol production, but there wasn't much of a market back then.
Jeaton,
I remember the 70's, when boxcars were put back into grain service. The small elevator here in town hadn't shipped by rail in years, but the loading chute was still there and the siding could still be use, so it was put back in service again for a short period. The bins n chute is still there today but the elevator is closed and the siding is long gone.
Some food processors also produce DDG as a by-product, like the cereal mill [cornflakes] in Paris. I think most of it is shipped by truck still; some may go out in covered hoppers. I remember buying it as a kid for hog feed at bout a $1 or so, by the truckload.
inch
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
jeaton wrote: What happens to the first by-product produced at that feedlot?
Presumably, the feedstock used to produce the ethanol and DDG was corn. As compared to some other crops, corn is a very nutrient depleting crop. Maybe the "first by-product" should be shipped back to the area in which the corn was produced to be used on the land. Perhaps the same hoppers could be used, thus creating a second revenue generating haul.
Well I thought that loaf of whole grain bread tasted a bit "gritty", now I know why ....
On the subject of grain in boxcars by the way, I once saw a photo of a Rock Island stock car that had been boarded up so it could be used to haul grain during the annual grain rush!
Frightened cows and pigs and grain ... yum!
Dave Nelson
Dakguy201 wrote: jeaton wrote: What happens to the first by-product produced at that feedlot?Presumably, the feedstock used to produce the ethanol and DDG was corn. As compared to some other crops, corn is a very nutrient depleting crop. Maybe the "first by-product" should be shipped back to the area in which the corn was produced to be used on the land. Perhaps the same hoppers could be used, thus creating a second revenue generating haul.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
23 17 46 11
Jeff, I'm pretty sure I haven't seen the TILX car(s) you describe--not yet, anyway. I'd like to, though--drag some east and warn me!
There are some Bethgons with a General American reporting mark (can't remember which one) and green rotary-coupler ends that were put into this tarp-cover service right when they were built.
C&O was another railroad that had fiberglass covers (yellow!) for placement on hoppers hauling export grain to Newport News.
The DDG I've seen is yellow--certainly not the dark brown that appeared in other photos of that BNSF wreck.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
In the early 70s the Andersons in Maumee Ohio shipped grain in coal cars. They may have been former N&W coal hoppers.
CShaveRR wrote: Jeff, I'm pretty sure I haven't seen the TILX car(s) you describe--not yet, anyway. I'd like to, though--drag some east and warn me!There are some Bethgons with a General American reporting mark (can't remember which one) and green rotary-coupler ends that were put into this tarp-cover service right when they were built.
Carl, I have a number now. TILX 42679. Saw it on a MPRCB, although it may have been picked up enroute and not out of Proviso. There were about 10 or so in the train.
It seems like they also may have a green panel on one end. I looked up this car and it's type designation seems different from the other car I saw. That might be due to looking at numbers and letters on a screen as opposed to a print out made with a weak printer ribbon.
Thanks for the number, Jeff! In UMLER it appears to be just another gondola of the coal-hauling type (the overall length, 53'1", makes it perfect for rotary dumpers). The UP TCS code for the car, G4F, is the same as that of a typical rotary-dump aluminum coal gon. However, the lessee of this car--Cargill--isn't exactly known for hauling coal. This particular car was moving between Cargill plants in Iowa and Nebraska; would have been added to the train in Marshalltown or thereabouts.
Come to think of it, the light green rotary end I saw on the other cars with tarp covers (still can't think of the reporting mark and series) is the shade that would probably be used on something leased to Cargill.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.