The railroads after the end of petroleum era.

[pedrop]

I am wondering about the end of an era: the petroleum era. Dou you think the railroads in America are doing arrangements to the end of petroleum era? It will be possible to electrify all railroads in less than 30 years? Are there sufficient electric power plants to serve all them? As you perceive, there are a lot of questions around this simple question

[J. Edgar]

even though i dont doubt the truth of peak oil and limited reserves....i dont see the age of black gold ending in the next 30 yrs....i doubt even in my childrens lifetime.......but i bet things are much different 30 yrs from now......

[wjstix]

It would be nice to see railroads electrifying now. (BTW, many people forget that a lot of the east coast electrification was done under the PWA during the 1930's, maybe govt needs to be involved again?) Even if we really do have coal reserves enough for 300 years of use (as is often claimed) I don't see us going back to steam engines, be better to use the coal to create electricity.

Course we should be building more nuclear power plants, but politically that might not be feasible.

[RR Redneck]

Hey there ole Pedro! Long as the railroads is runnin diesels, they aint got nothin to worry bout! Ole Rudolph Diesel designed them babies to run off anything. Heck, durin one deminstration of his then new diesel engine, he ran it off of some peanut oil! A few minor (if any) modifications, and they can run them suckers off cookin grease!

[WCfan]

even though i dont doubt the truth of peak oil and limited reserves....i dont see the age of black gold ending in the next 30 yrs....i doubt even in my childrens lifetime.......but i bet things are much different 30 yrs from now......

I've heard that the oil will run out in the next 50-70 years. You got to think about that the traffic in China is going to sky rocket in the next 20-30 years.

I think the locos will run off cooking grease. Cheap and easy to get.

[RR Redneck]

Not to mention, the fact that it is ecofriendly and they will have to make virtually no changes to the locomotives.

[Railfan1]

even though i dont doubt the truth of peak oil and limited reserves....i dont see the age of black gold ending in the next 30 yrs....i doubt even in my childrens lifetime.......but i bet things are much different 30 yrs from now......

I've heard that the oil will run out in the next 50-70 years.

If that's the case, I'll be in my 90's and I don't think I'll care that much.

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

Hello pedrop.....  interesting question you raised. 

Unfortunately, the politicians in the US over the decades since WWII have favored transport policies that discourage rail transportation.  We've abandoned thousands and thousands of railway miles.  Meantime, we've built thousands and thousands of highway miles.

The government knows better.  Goverment studies show trucks consume three times the diesel fuel than is the case with trains hauling freight measured on a ton-mile basis.  Now that emmisions are becoming a great concern, government statistics show truck emmisions are also triple that of rail with eqivalent ton-miles.

Clearly, rail transport is the better alternative over highway transport.

Electrification may be an issue due to cost of transporting power to locomotives.

Thanks for the thread, pedrop.  Best wishes to you.

 

[ndbprr]

No petroleum = no electricity so it is a moot point.  You still need to burn something to make the steam to turn the generators.  OH wait.  I have an idea.  Let's build a huge dam all around the country so when global warming raises the oceans we can convert the rise into hydroelectric power.  Don't believe anything the fear mongers tell you.  It has been my experience that most of the enivronmental movement consists of wackos with no concept of reality.  Al Gore need to explain to me how we are melting the ice cap on Mars and why it is our fault it is disappearing.  Maybe the guys who claim the sun has heated up a little are on the right path.

[Anonymous]

I would suggest you go to two of my posts in the Trains Magazine Forum (General Discussions).

I am very concerned about the future of railroads after the end of the petroleum age.

The end of the oil age is much, much closer, than you think. I refer you to: Google search "peak oil", lifeaftertheoilcrash.net, and the Association For The Study Of Peak Oil And Gas.

[ndbprr]

If you truly believe this tripe then you should be more concerned about how you are going to survive rather than how trains are going to run.  None of the sources you cite have anything to do with producing or distributing oil and gas.  Just a bunch of doom and gloom prophets.  Maybe we should all worry about the huge meteor that will wipe out man also.

[Anonymous]

I would like for you to contemplate the following.

The oil consumption in the United States is 20 to 22 million barrels per day. This times the 365 days in a year, equals an annual consumption of approximately 8 billion barrels annually.

The worldwide oil consumption, including the US, is 85 million barrels per day. This times the 365 days in one year, equals approximately 31 billion barrels annually.

The known oil reserves of the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve are 16 billion barrels. The US consumption of oil would wipe out the ANWR in two years. The worldwide consumption would wipe out the ANWR in under 7 months.

The Saudi Arabia reserves, the world's largest, are rated as high as 280 billion barrels. The US consumption would wipe out the Saudi Arabia reserves in 35 years. The worldwide consumption would wipe out the reserves in a little over 9 years.

The Iraqi reserves, the second largest in the world, are 112 billion barrels. The US consumption would wipe out these reserves in 14 years. The worldwide consumption would wipe out the reserves in less than 4 years.

The Ghawar oil field, the largest in the world, in Saudi Arabia; had an intial reserve of 60 billion barrels. It is, now, down to 5 billion barrels and dropping. To keep this field going, the Saudi's are pumping in 7 million barrels per day of sea water. Depending on where the wells happen to be, of the total liquids pumped from the field; 30 to 50 percent, or more, of the liquids is composed of salt water. This, the mightiest oil field of them all, has gone into stripper well operation; which indicates it is reaching the end of the line in its ability to produce oil.

The Cantarel field, the world's second largest, in Mexico; is enduring the same fate as the once mighty Ghawar.

Of the top 23 oil producing countries worldwide, 15 have already peaked in their production; and are in a permanent state of decline. Leaving only 8 that have any chance of increasing production.

[tatans]

Lets see now, how many sets of overhead wires will be needed to cross the U.S. fom East to West, is there enough wire in the world for this, remember the U.S. is a little bigger than say,,,,the Dominican Republic.

[snagletooth]

 The biggest problem with electrifing the US rail system is the power source. The only real energy source answer is nuclear power, which, as wjstix said, not a welcome answer in this country. Yet it is the only answer. To deny the answer that stares us in the face!

[SSW9389]

There was a show on the History Channel the other day about freight railroads. Today's heavy line haul locomotives were said to use about 350,000 gallons of fuel per year and 7 million gallons over a 20 year life. To me this means fuel saving is an area that railroads will continue to focus on. Electrification of those rail lines with the highest annual tonnage could be in the offing in the very near future if the economics are right and especially if Uncle Sam is pushing it or giving tax credits for it.