I have several questions about the BNSF and UP Diamond traffic at Rochelle ILL.
#1 How far from diamond is the apposing traffic stopped?
#2 How far past the diamond does rolling traffic go before the waiting traffic is released to enter?
#3 A train is crossing the diamond. A train is approching in the opposite direction. There is traffic waiting for clearance. Who is given priority to cross?
#4 How far back is the first indication that a train is approching the diamond? A-- another train has priority, B-- a train takes priority.
spikejones52002 wrote: I have several questions about the BNSF and UP Diamond traffic at Rochelle ILL.#1 How far from diamond is the apposing traffic stopped?#2 How far past the diamond does rolling traffic go before the waiting traffic is released to enter?#3 A train is crossing the diamond. A train is approching in the opposite direction. There is traffic waiting for clearance. Who is given priority to cross?#4 How far back is the first indication that a train is approching the diamond? A-- another train has priority, B-- a train takes priority.
Hi, Spike, great questions all, but some of them yield fairly complex answers. I'd recommend you also post your question on the "Railroad" site at Trains, because it gets a lot more traffic than this site.
No. 1 - opposing traffic: Just for orientation, beyond the crossing, the tracks on the left at the far end of the Rochelle webcam's scope (which is quite similar to what we humans can see from the RR Park shelter) belong to UP. The bldg. in the middle is or was a cannery, and then the tracks to the far right of the picture are BNSF's.
Traffic across the diamonds is on a first-come, first-served basis. There used to be a local tower, but it was closed years and years ago, in the 1960s I think. Control routinely now emanates electronically from corporate headquarters in BNSF's case (Ft. Worth, TX); but I'm not sure if UP directions come from corporate headquarters in Omaha or from somewhere else. Both lines are under CTC. So permission to cross is usually a long-distance affair, except that I've seen very occasional exceptions listed below.
You can't see it from the cam (park), but just west of Rochelle UP owns a newish and HUGE intermodal facility called "Global III." It is (not too much) beyond the webcam's or visitor's field of vision. It seems to me that eastbound trains (toward the shelter and on to Chicago) ready to leave Global III usually wait inside or at the edge of Global III for clearance, possibly because for a train to move out of the yards and onto the main line would block a grade crossing (barely visible at the far left of picture, beyond cannery). But other eastbound UP trains usually sail right through, some faster than others. I don't know how far away they wait, if they must, but apparently that would be beyond the webcam's scope.
Westbound UP trains are a little different. Some people joke that "UP" stands for "Unlimited Parking" and it's not unusual to see several waiting UP freights extending from adjacent to the park all the way thru town and on toward DeKalb, in the east, about a signal block apart. If a train is pre-cleared, it can sail right across the diamond, BUT if it must wait I have seen the lead engine of the lead waiting WB (that is, closest to the diamond) holding so close to the diamond its engines are about even with the shelter. (Making for great still photography.) Perhaps it is not coincidental that both lines have large, track-spanning, traditional signal towers just a couple of hundred feet east of the diamond, about even with the park's shelter. WB UP trains, when they hold before crossing the diamond, seem to do so as close as possible to those overhead signals while still being able to read them, or to trip the block for that matter. If so, CTC signalization would make stopping so close to the diamond quite safe.
In short, your best bet for standing-still trains is UP westbound, adjacent to the shelter, on busy days.
Since there's an exception to practically everything there was a minor accident last year between a train on one company's line and railcar (think modern-day handcar) from the other's. The human element caused a slight collision, probably because it relied on sight, at night.
As for BNSF, that's pretty straightforward. You can see the BNSF tracks heading east for about ¾ of a mile, then there's a sharp turn to the right (south) and they are no longer visible from the RR park. I myself have never seen a westbound train holding at its respective signal tower opposite the park*; most Beaners are intermodal and pass thru at a pretty good clip. (There are perhaps one-quarter as many BNSF movements as UP's.) I have seen westbound BNSF trains holding on the southeastern edge of Rochelle, at a point where the track runs north-and-south, so apparently they like to wait a good distance away if they must. To gather momentum, perhaps? TOFC trains tend to be faster and to accelerate more quickly than other types of freight trains. It certainly doesn't hurt public relations that the Beaners occupy minimal time crossing Rochelle's several grade crossings -- something we can't always say of Uncle Pete.
* (I told you everything has an exception: BNSF does keep at least two road-switchers on the far (east) side of Rochelle for local switching at the industrial park area. When last I saw the pair, they still bore "fallen flag" paint jobs: one Burlington Northern green-and-white and the other in ATSF blue-and-yellow warbonnet motif. I have seen them hold at or near the BNSF signal tower adjacent to the RR park, apparently awaiting clearance into Global III. There's a third, outside rail that makes this BNSF-to-UP maneuver possible.)
BNSF's from the west, heading eastbound, appear quite suddenly at the edge of the cannery. They also move fairly quickly and leave very little time to get that camera ready!
No. 2 - Both roads are under CTC, so my guess is that the engineer simply follows the signals, though I suppose there's left open the possibility that HQ can countermand the signals via radio. I did once hear a late-running westbound BNSF intermodal beg permission of the lead UP westbound to cross the diamond first at a time three UP freights were stacked up to the east (as I said above, a not-atypical situation). So apparently train-to-train communication is possible between the competing lines and they know each other's scanner frequencies, but I don't think they make a habit of it, or need to.
No. 3 - I can't tell from your question if you mean the second train is from a different line or a train from the same line running in the opposite direction. But for competing lines, as I said it's first-come, first-served with the occasional exceptions noted above. Recall that both lines are under CTC and very well signalized.
No. 4 - A train moving at a good clip toward the shelter should (must) have been granted clearance. Hard to stop a moving train, after all. ;)
People with good scanners (and really good antennas!) probably know more about the give-and-take of a shared frog crossing than I do. But for the non-equipped enthusiast (me), the first-come first-served system seems to work fluidly and well.
Hope I've served. Do post your question under "Railroads," too. Feel free to e-m
Railfan1 wrote:That is good information. I needed some of this as well. I plan to visit this fall. (1700 miles round trip!).
Thanks for the note of appreciation! My car odometer showed 1,051 mi. from Folkston to Chicago (Northside), so I am definitely in sympathy with the sacrifices of time and travel we are willing to make to cultivate our hobby.
For what it's worth, on your trip I hope you have time to drive the remaining 75 miles or so eastward to Chicago. The four largest commuter stations are concentrated downtown, pretty close outside the boundaries of the L's (elevated's) "Loop." In fact, the largest terminal, Union Station (which also handles all Amtrak) is pretty much kitty-corner leading from its north-facing platforms across the street into the (ex-CNW) Ogilvie Transportation Center.
If you go online -- I think it's just Metra.com -- you can find out not only the schedules but info about the cheap weekend pass, sightseeing points near the lines, etc.
Feel free to e-mail if you'd like to try working out a rendezvous.
Best, al-in-chgo (Allen)