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What's going on on the MR forum?

  • Now we will just have to go run trians istead of sitting her typing.
    BTW I have put a poll version of Train Trivia on the Trains.com section.
  • Here's some links of interest:

    http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46352
    Weekend Photo Fun

    http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46349
    Just a thread to...talk about model railroading.

    http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46350
    James' Train Trivia...in poll form.

    Let's make-do with what we have. (Sighs loudly)
  • Funny story,
    Today I finally got internet at home! (YAY!) And now my favorite place to spend internet time is locked! Good luck to Bergie on fixing it up quick.
    Matthew, finally at home

    Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

    Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/

  • Not sure if Bergie is bothering to read this or not, but I would be more than willing to provide my services as co-moderator (sub-moderator, sous-moderator, etc.) as I'm usre many others would. I have no doubt that many others have offered many other times but it never hurts to offer a help hand. :)
    Chris May ======== Modules make the best layout! If you move you can take them with you and they are already cut.
  • I wrote a quite lengthy response to the sticky note that was left this morning before the lock down. I got some good feedback on it. I figured I would repost it here for further comment.

    QUOTE:
    I admit that I have made some fiery and steamy remarks in the past. But I have always tried to ground my argument on solid grounds. I personally would not like to see these forums go away. However, I feel that to do their job, access to them should be free and unfettered. The forums have allowed me space to let me express my ideas and feelings, as well as engage in healthy debate with those who had valid disagreements.



    I have deep concerns about the future of this hobby. Because every trend I notice seems to indicate its slow lingering and painful death. Chances are that in my region of the country I very well could be the last person to be engaged in it when I am of similar age as most of the forum participants are now. I.E. 40-50 years old. Couple this with the fact that Model Railroader hardly ever showcases techniques any more. The NOV. issue is the first time in a long time that more than one "modeling" article has graced its pages in the same issue for a long time. And then there are only three, the scenery article, the depot building article and the conclusion of the Claremont and Concord series. Given that there are some Model Building articles in the last issue as well, I do not know if this is a shift back to more a more model building focused magazine or this is just a temporary trend. However the glitzy glamorous hollywoodesk appearance that started with the Jan. 04 Issue leaves me a little worried.



    For a long time, it seems that MR has not had a focus or a direction and seems to be going in editorial circles. Don't get me wrong, It’s still a good magazine and I am sure the staff is working very hard. But, the column/series "Working on the Railroad" just concluded. "Step By Step" covers much of the same ground. And both are a reinvention of the "Basic Model Railroading" series that was on going when I first started subscribing regularly in 1996. We lost Paint Shop as a monthly feature, which in my opinion, gutted the magazine of a major model building focus. I enjoyed paint shop. It gave me Ideas. Not to mention painting trains is just plain fun. This reminds me. "Model Railroading is Fun" got dropped as a magazine mantra as well. Giving me a sense of even more having lost direction. There used to be a monthly set of plans in MR. I don't know how many ever got used to build models but again, they were inspiring. (Yes I noticed the Santa Fe Baggage plans in the last issue)



    Model Railroader lately seems to have lost its way. Its biggest competitor Railroad Model Craftsman doesn't have that problem. (The only reason I consider Railroad Model Craftsman MR's biggest competitor is that it is the only other model train magazine I have seen in supermarket and street side newsstands.) RMC has a clear focus on the style of magazine they wi***o publish, with a veritable orchestra of regular contributing authors like Don Parker, Mike Rose, Don Fieghnman, Bob Walker, and Jim Provedensa. (You can bet when all those names show up in the same issue you are in for some enjoyable reading time.) Then they also publish a lot of stuff from people who just send stuff in. Recently RMC published a two part article on how to model a specific CNJ 2-8-2. I enjoyed it immensely. I probably never will attempt that particular project because I model the GN a good 12 years after steam was banished from the Empire Road, but It gave me something to chew on and savor and think about so maybe if I am modeling a GN O-2 2-8-2 for some reason, There might be a technique or two from that article that will apply to the model I am building. Last time I saw anything like that in MR. was when John Pryke detailed a New Haven 0-8-0 in a 2001 issue. Leaving this model builder less than inspired.



    I am writing because I am sure this thread has the attention of the MR staff. I have made these comments before in other threads and emails I have sent to MR and have been ignored. As a loyal Kalmbach customer I want to know the official stance on these issues. I Subscribe to MR, Trains, Classic Trains and Garden Railways, and my dad Subscribes to Fine Scale Modeler, so at any given time there are 5 Kalmbach Titles in Circulation in my household. We also buy many of the special annual issues to for MR, Trains/Classic Trains, and FSM. I feel I am at least deserving of such at least some response. I haven’t even received a form email.



    I urge the MR staff and Editor Thompson to please find a direction for the magazine to go. MR is the Ambassador for Model Railroading. At my local supermarket newsstand The Column for FSM, MR, and Trains, Is next to Hotrod, Low-rider, and BMX on the right, and Ladies Home Journal, Better Homes and Gardens, and McCall’s Monthly on the left. I feel that the current line of material that MR is now publishing comes across as "SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO IF YOU HAVE MORE MONEY THAN GOD!" The V&Os, the UBs, and the 3rd Districts of the Clover Leafs, are nice to look at. But when they show up as standard fare, it comes off as "This is the way things must be done"



    Also how about a Project Layout that is just more than a table top? Tony Keoster’s Claremont and Concord is a nice step away from that, and the fact that it is in G-scale is refreshing. It something we haven’t seen since Malcome Furlow was working with it in the late 80s. But why not go beyond a large scale switching layout. How about something that can be done in a spare bedroom. I feel that the 10 X 12 or 10 X 10 spare bedroom is a pretty common model railroad space. And a great many things can be done in that space. I have read the series done for the BN, Wisconsin Central, and Arkansas and Missouri, project layouts and they do a wonderful job providing some heavy duty mainline action in about the space I described. Granted these are N scale layouts. But why not focus on a prototype branch line in HO if an HO layout is what is wanted. I have a designed a dandy 10 X 14 (Easily shortened to 10X12) trackplan for the BN (former CB&Q) Deadwood Branch in South Dakota. I am sure your talented staff can come up with others. Or get Ian Rice on the phone, (What happened to him any way, Haven’t heard from him in a long time) and I am sure he can design a few dandies for you. Probably even be happy to send a few English prototype plans along if you want to explore modeling their prototypes. (Be interesting reading, that’s for sure)



    If a return of paint shop, or non- table top project layouts is simply a matter of no one available to do it. Then I am willing to do it. Need one paint project per issue? Fine I can whip one out once a week for you. Want to explore a bedroom sized model railroad, if you will let me borrow your studio for a few weeks, I'd be happy to come and get it going for you. If there is anything your looking for. Let me know. As long as its more involved than taking the latest BLI Class X whatchagidit tweaking it slightly and sending it down the tracks.



    As I close. I just want to say, that I would like to know how the MR staff feels about this. State your personal feeling because I am just sitting on pins and needles wanting to know. Have for a few years. I am a simple country boy from Wyoming. Builds his model railroad from the Spare Parts and Cast aways from others. (I kitbashed a GP-35 from a Life-Like GP38-2 for crying out loud) And the current mindset position that seems to come from reading MR. (Look at all this money you can spend) leaves me feeling disheartened. It seems to be sewing the seeds of destruction for this great hobby. Because a lot of the new Modelers are not learning the skills needed to do even do basic repair. Skills I learned by the way, by reading MR.

    James.

  • I do agree, as when I look at 10 year old issues, I like them more than the ones we get now.
    Matthew

    Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

    Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/

  • QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

    ........................................................
    At times like this, you get the soul-searching question that since the forum is free anyway and your good graces are being abused, maybe it's just not worth the hassle?

    I don't envy their position right now, but I hope they decide that with some changes to tighten security, the forum will continue.



    Hi all,

    It isn't an enviable position, that's for sure!!
    I run a small, specialized forum (or two[;)][:)] ) and instituted the routine of clearing every registrant prior to him/her being able to post.
    That works thus far to keep the "undesirables" at bay - mind you I get to check "credentials" almost every day and delete registrants, but that is preferable to some of the hoopla that goes on in Internet land.

    Oh, the other routine I use is making some of the forum sections invisible to "Guests". Some may refer to that as being "paranoid, discriminatory, elitist" and several other less flattering terms. Frankly I don't care, I set the rules, they are clearly posted and those who don't like them, need not attempt to sign up.
    Cheers HJ http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/ http://www.easternmountainmodels.com
  • There were entire posts made up of screen-names that "joined Today." Half a dozen of them, at least.

    My guess is, after the names were deleted the Troll started re-joining and posting. Since Bergie was probably going home, and didn't want to wake up to a flooded forum, he locked us down for the night until he could personally be available to supervise the situation.

    It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

    There were entire posts made up of screen-names that "joined Today." Half a dozen of them, at least.

    My guess is, after the names were deleted the Troll started re-joining and posting. Since Bergie was probably going home, and didn't want to wake up to a flooded forum, he locked us down for the night until he could personally be available to supervise the situation.

    But it was around 4 P.M. EDT when they were locked down. Isn't Bergie in Wisconsin? That would mean he leaves from work at 3 P.M. CST. [%-)]
  • Well why dont we talk about model trains here?There aren't any rules saying we can't talk about model trains here in TRAINS magazine.
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by npr765

    Well why dont we talk about model trains here?There aren't any rules saying we can't talk about model trains here in TRAINS magazine.

    Well, we could do that...but we have already started a model trains thread over on the TRAINS.COM forums. http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46349

    C'mon over and join us!
  • If the regulars here don't mind, there is a forum that is willing to take the MR Forums refugees until this all blows over.

    http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

    I wrote a quite lengthy response to the sticky note that was left this morning before the lock down. I got some good feedback on it. I figured I would repost it here for further comment.

    QUOTE:
    I admit that I have made some fiery and steamy remarks in the past. But I have always tried to ground my argument on solid grounds. I personally would not like to see these forums go away. However, I feel that to do their job, access to them should be free and unfettered. The forums have allowed me space to let me express my ideas and feelings, as well as engage in healthy debate with those who had valid disagreements.



    I have deep concerns about the future of this hobby. Because every trend I notice seems to indicate its slow lingering and painful death. Chances are that in my region of the country I very well could be the last person to be engaged in it when I am of similar age as most of the forum participants are now. I.E. 40-50 years old. Couple this with the fact that Model Railroader hardly ever showcases techniques any more. The NOV. issue is the first time in a long time that more than one "modeling" article has graced its pages in the same issue for a long time. And then there are only three, the scenery article, the depot building article and the conclusion of the Claremont and Concord series. Given that there are some Model Building articles in the last issue as well, I do not know if this is a shift back to more a more model building focused magazine or this is just a temporary trend. However the glitzy glamorous hollywoodesk appearance that started with the Jan. 04 Issue leaves me a little worried.



    For a long time, it seems that MR has not had a focus or a direction and seems to be going in editorial circles. Don't get me wrong, It’s still a good magazine and I am sure the staff is working very hard. But, the column/series "Working on the Railroad" just concluded. "Step By Step" covers much of the same ground. And both are a reinvention of the "Basic Model Railroading" series that was on going when I first started subscribing regularly in 1996. We lost Paint Shop as a monthly feature, which in my opinion, gutted the magazine of a major model building focus. I enjoyed paint shop. It gave me Ideas. Not to mention painting trains is just plain fun. This reminds me. "Model Railroading is Fun" got dropped as a magazine mantra as well. Giving me a sense of even more having lost direction. There used to be a monthly set of plans in MR. I don't know how many ever got used to build models but again, they were inspiring. (Yes I noticed the Santa Fe Baggage plans in the last issue)



    Model Railroader lately seems to have lost its way. Its biggest competitor Railroad Model Craftsman doesn't have that problem. (The only reason I consider Railroad Model Craftsman MR's biggest competitor is that it is the only other model train magazine I have seen in supermarket and street side newsstands.) RMC has a clear focus on the style of magazine they wi***o publish, with a veritable orchestra of regular contributing authors like Don Parker, Mike Rose, Don Fieghnman, Bob Walker, and Jim Provedensa. (You can bet when all those names show up in the same issue you are in for some enjoyable reading time.) Then they also publish a lot of stuff from people who just send stuff in. Recently RMC published a two part article on how to model a specific CNJ 2-8-2. I enjoyed it immensely. I probably never will attempt that particular project because I model the GN a good 12 years after steam was banished from the Empire Road, but It gave me something to chew on and savor and think about so maybe if I am modeling a GN O-2 2-8-2 for some reason, There might be a technique or two from that article that will apply to the model I am building. Last time I saw anything like that in MR. was when John Pryke detailed a New Haven 0-8-0 in a 2001 issue. Leaving this model builder less than inspired.



    I am writing because I am sure this thread has the attention of the MR staff. I have made these comments before in other threads and emails I have sent to MR and have been ignored. As a loyal Kalmbach customer I want to know the official stance on these issues. I Subscribe to MR, Trains, Classic Trains and Garden Railways, and my dad Subscribes to Fine Scale Modeler, so at any given time there are 5 Kalmbach Titles in Circulation in my household. We also buy many of the special annual issues to for MR, Trains/Classic Trains, and FSM. I feel I am at least deserving of such at least some response. I haven’t even received a form email.



    I urge the MR staff and Editor Thompson to please find a direction for the magazine to go. MR is the Ambassador for Model Railroading. At my local supermarket newsstand The Column for FSM, MR, and Trains, Is next to Hotrod, Low-rider, and BMX on the right, and Ladies Home Journal, Better Homes and Gardens, and McCall’s Monthly on the left. I feel that the current line of material that MR is now publishing comes across as "SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO IF YOU HAVE MORE MONEY THAN GOD!" The V&Os, the UBs, and the 3rd Districts of the Clover Leafs, are nice to look at. But when they show up as standard fare, it comes off as "This is the way things must be done"



    Also how about a Project Layout that is just more than a table top? Tony Keoster’s Claremont and Concord is a nice step away from that, and the fact that it is in G-scale is refreshing. It something we haven’t seen since Malcome Furlow was working with it in the late 80s. But why not go beyond a large scale switching layout. How about something that can be done in a spare bedroom. I feel that the 10 X 12 or 10 X 10 spare bedroom is a pretty common model railroad space. And a great many things can be done in that space. I have read the series done for the BN, Wisconsin Central, and Arkansas and Missouri, project layouts and they do a wonderful job providing some heavy duty mainline action in about the space I described. Granted these are N scale layouts. But why not focus on a prototype branch line in HO if an HO layout is what is wanted. I have a designed a dandy 10 X 14 (Easily shortened to 10X12) trackplan for the BN (former CB&Q) Deadwood Branch in South Dakota. I am sure your talented staff can come up with others. Or get Ian Rice on the phone, (What happened to him any way, Haven’t heard from him in a long time) and I am sure he can design a few dandies for you. Probably even be happy to send a few English prototype plans along if you want to explore modeling their prototypes. (Be interesting reading, that’s for sure)



    If a return of paint shop, or non- table top project layouts is simply a matter of no one available to do it. Then I am willing to do it. Need one paint project per issue? Fine I can whip one out once a week for you. Want to explore a bedroom sized model railroad, if you will let me borrow your studio for a few weeks, I'd be happy to come and get it going for you. If there is anything your looking for. Let me know. As long as its more involved than taking the latest BLI Class X whatchagidit tweaking it slightly and sending it down the tracks.



    As I close. I just want to say, that I would like to know how the MR staff feels about this. State your personal feeling because I am just sitting on pins and needles wanting to know. Have for a few years. I am a simple country boy from Wyoming. Builds his model railroad from the Spare Parts and Cast aways from others. (I kitbashed a GP-35 from a Life-Like GP38-2 for crying out loud) And the current mindset position that seems to come from reading MR. (Look at all this money you can spend) leaves me feeling disheartened. It seems to be sewing the seeds of destruction for this great hobby. Because a lot of the new Modelers are not learning the skills needed to do even do basic repair. Skills I learned by the way, by reading MR.

    James.





    Good points in your lettter, James. Unfortunately I agree with all of them. So I told my wife not to send the re-subscription letter back. I can't say I've read more than ten minutes in any issue this year.

    mike
  • Awww, still down? Darn. Oh well, good luck to bergie getting it up again
    Matthew

    Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

    Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/

  • Student of Big Sky Blue wrote:
    QUOTE: I personally would not like to see these forums go away. However, I feel that to do their job, access to them should be free and unfettered.


    Agreed. There are too many free discussion areas to actually pay to talk trains. Besides the Yahoo! groups and other freebies, you also have newsgroups like rec.models.rail and misc.transport.rail.americas (these can be accessed via Google.com if you don't have NNTP access). Sure, the discussion would be more tightly moderated if there was a pay service, but it would also tend to stifle free speech. For an example, I give you Trainorders.com. When they were free, it was a little wild, but very popular discussion forum. Now that it's a pay site, forum postings are way down, and the conversation (at least in the MR section) is pretty bland.

    QUOTE: But, the column/series "Working on the Railroad" just concluded. "Step By Step" covers much of the same ground. And both are a reinvention of the "Basic Model Railroading" series that was on going when I first started subscribing regularly in 1996.


    IMHO, beginner's articles are necessary. Not every one who buys an MR has been a model railroader for 10 years or more, and you have to attract new readers and modelers by having easy and introductory articles frequently...IMHO at least one in every issue. Do they evenutally go over the same ground? Yes. I mean, how many times has an article been printed in MR on how to lay track or carve plaster or wire a layout? Probably dozens (each) over the last 60-odd years. Eliminating these "beginners" articles would be a serious mistake, IMHO.

    QUOTE: Model Railroader lately seems to have lost its way. Its biggest competitor Railroad Model Craftsman doesn't have that problem.


    Tthe problem with RMC is that while they have a very clear focus on what they want to publish, they are outsold by MR by something like 4 to 1. Clearly, if RMC was what the people wanted, they would be the Number 1 magazine. They aren't, not even close. So why should MR try to be RMC? If MR became a "Craftsman" magazine like RMC, they'd soon have the same readership as RMC...and no magazine is going to willingly cut it's own throat like that.

    QUOTE: I feel that the current line of material that MR is now publishing comes across as "SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO IF YOU HAVE MORE MONEY THAN GOD!"


    Ha! Have you picked up those other magazines??? Take Action Pursuit Games (a paintballer magazine). Back when I was playing, they showed what all the top players were using...AutoMags, Angels, etc., plus all the gear like nitrous systems, etc. These cost a fortune to outfit for top of the line equipment. Model Railroader is no different. No magazine is going to show the bottom of the economic scale as the "state of the art". It doesn't sell. An remember, MR and RMC aren't publishing magazines for the good of the hobby. They are trying to make as much money as possible.

    QUOTE: The V&Os, the UBs, and the 3rd Districts of the Clover Leafs, are nice to look at. But when they show up as standard fare, it comes off as "This is the way things must be done"


    Not to me. It comes off as "this is what you could have if you work hard enough on improving your skills", just like it did when I was 15 years old. But to each their own.

    QUOTE: If a return of paint shop, or non- table top project layouts is simply a matter of no one available to do it. Then I am willing to do it. Need one paint project per issue? Fine I can whip one out once a week for you.


    The main problem is that there just isn't that much interest by model railroaders in custom painting anything, really. So what would be the point, economically? Take a look at the model railroad shows in your area, and I bet you can't find any custom painters anymore. 15 years ago, it was possible to see multiple custom painters. Now? A rare thing to find. The reason for that is that the manufacturers are painting all the items in the correct schemes for you, and only the best custom painters can match a factory job. The beginning of the end was when brass started coming in factory paint. After that, it was only a matter of time.

    Paul A. Cutler III
    *****************
    Weather Or No Go New Haven
    *****************