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[Ham549]

We have all heard about the red bird subways being dumped into the ocean "to make artificial reefs" a.k.a. to save money. I have two problems with this. Reefs take hundreds of years to form, while steel only takes decades to get eaten away. 2 I am sure a lot of train fans out there (like me) would love to have taken them so why not just give them to whoever wants them and have them take it at there own expense?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The R-17's (Redbirds) were quite numerous. They were generally stripped of anything salvageable before the carbodies were dumped in the Atlantic. Artificial reefs give the coral and other bottom dwellers a place to attach themselves and the rest of the marine life to live. Shipwrecks of all sorts last longer than you might think so dumping R-17's, A-6 Intruders, etc. to form reefs isn't so shortsighted.

In response to your second request, it isn't that cheap to move even relatively small subway equipment out from Coney Island shops since it probably couldn't be moved on its own wheels.

[ndbprr]

If you want a real gem the first Chinese steamer bought by the Suquehanna was on a ship that sank and never turned one wheel in revenue. They had to build them another one.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure you're right, CSHEGEWISH, but it seems to me (on paper) that old IRT cars should be able to be towed on their own trucks. It's heavy-rail transportation and standard gauge, after all.

There must be other factors I'm not aware of. Why, then, is it generally not a good idea to haul such heavy without sledding?

[espeefoamer]

There is a group of Pacific Electric cars in the Pacific Ocean,off the coast of Santa Monica.

[ndbprr]

I'd bet that some other agency was behind the reef idea. Dumping them for artficial reefs denied them the scrap value of the cars which is where they would have wound up.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Rapid transit equipment has little in common with the rest of railroading besides the gauge. Couplers and quite frequently other items such as braking systems are not compatible, the frame is often lower, etc. New rapid transit equipment is usually delivered by flatcar and is often small enough to not cause clearance limitations. In this case, I would assume that the NYCTA was paid scrap value for the carbodies.

[Anonymous]

Regarding oddball disposal methods, I know of a few railcars over here that were buried (literally) due to their having asbestos insulation in their structure (built before the risks were known). I'm intrigued to hear about the artifical reefs - I've seen old ships used for this purpose but not rail equipment!

[ndbprr]

The city of New York for years built artficial reefs with garbage. Their solution for where to put it was to take it to sea and dump it. I expect three headed sharks to appear off the east coast at any date now.

[Anonymous]

Here's something very interesting! Check out this site: http://www.czimages.com/CZMemories/frtrain/frtr_index.htm . An 0-6-0T locomotive and cars were raised after being underwater many years and will be preserved! Never say never!

I also came across this site: http://www.mermetsprings.com/photoshoot.html . This bathtub gondola was sunk in a lake not to provide habitat for sea creatures, but for the pleasure of scuba divers. From looking around the site, they've also got a Boeing 727 and numerous other air, land and sea vehicles down there.