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Future Power

  • What do you think will happen? Will diesel remain king? Will electricity steal the spotlight? Or, will raising fuel prices cause groups to consider steam power again? The ACE 3000 was a good example of this. What's on everybody's minds?

    Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

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  • Diesel Will be King

    DOGGY
  • i think when the fuel cell is profected...that might be the next genoration of power for a locomitives.. ... with the EPA putting more and more restrictions on engin emistions... its only a matter of time befor someone trys to put a fuel cell and a locomotive together...
    i dont see the rail roads running out to string cattanary over thier main lines also... the cost would be astromoical... the cost to build the powerplants to make the power... cost to buy or convert locomotives over to electric only power... and just the cost of putting up the wires and suport structers and fusilitys would we way out of the rail roads bugets...now if the governement where to foot the bill..it might be differnt...but that will also never happen
    steam is gone for good....
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
  • [alien]aparrently in england the goverment put a whole load of steam engines to one side in case of a nuclear attack in which all oil would be burned up. so i think that steam will be king because the are more relable[banghead]
  • [alien]sorry for the spelling mistake.
    this:because the are
    should be this:because they are[banghead]
  • There are a couple of technologies in development that may replace the diesel.

    One is fuel cells, still in it's infancy for such large applications, but certainly a possibility. The need to haul large amounts of hydrogen around is a consideration, however. It makes LP gas look positively safe.

    The other is the hybrids such as the green goat, although it's usefulness in long-haul situations hasn't been established yet - the generator needs opportunities to charge the batteries, and I don't think it's big enough to actually power the loco.

    I don't think you will see traditional steam emerge again. If steam does show up, it will probably be to drive a turbine and generate electricity.

    LarryWhistling
    Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
    Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
    My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
    Come ride the rails with me!
    There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • if thier was a nuclear attack... odds are even the steamers would be melted or severly damaged.... if their was anyone left to opporate them
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

    There are a couple of technologies in development that may replace the diesel.

    One is fuel cells, still in it's infancy for such large applications, but certainly a possibility. The need to haul large amounts of hydrogen around is a consideration, however. It makes LP gas look positively safe.

    The other is the hybrids such as the green goat, although it's usefulness in long-haul situations hasn't been established yet - the generator needs opportunities to charge the batteries, and I don't think it's big enough to actually power the loco.

    I don't think you will see traditional steam emerge again. If steam does show up, it will probably be to drive a turbine and generate electricity.

    but the question is.....
    what fuel would you use to power it.... if you where going to burn oil..why get rid of the diesle engine in the first place... you just put a more complicated system in place of a simpler system... a steam turbine is a majorly complicated unit comparired to a diesel engine...and then you got the down time of how long it would take to get the engin "up to steam" when it is started...also the added down time of adding water to the boilers... even if you uses a closed system such as they use on subs... the powerplanet would be massive..and the locomotive would be to big for use on the rail system as we have it today.....
    and as for coal agin...it goes back to the EPA restrictions on engin emistions...
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

    QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68


    I don't think you will see traditional steam emerge again. If steam does show up, it will probably be to drive a turbine and generate electricity.

    but the question is.....
    what fuel would you use to power it.... if you where going to burn oil..why get rid of the diesle engine in the first place... you just put a more complicated system in place of a simpler system... a steam turbine is a majorly complicated unit comparired to a diesel engine...and then you got the down time of how long it would take to get the engin "up to steam" when it is started...also the added down time of adding water to the boilers... even if you uses a closed system such as they use on subs... the powerplanet would be massive..and the locomotive would be to big for use on the rail system as we have it today.....
    and as for coal agin...it goes back to the EPA restrictions on engin emistions...
    csx engineer


    Agreed 100%. Unless there is some major breakthrough in steam generation and use, it's a dead technology for rail modern rail transportation.

    The way things go, though, one can't rule much of anything out. Somewhere, in a lab, someone is working on or toward the "next big thing."

    LarryWhistling
    Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
    Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
    My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
    Come ride the rails with me!
    There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

    One place where they are working on literally far-out energy sources is the U of Wisconsin. They're working on a fusion (not fission) reactor technology powered by heavy helium drawn from moon soil. No joke. A space shuttle load of canisters of this gas used with fusion reactors could provide the electricity needs of the US for a year!
    im not to fimiller with fusion technology...i know the basics behind it.. and that fusion is what makes a H. bomb work... but what are the draw backs... are the bi-producs and waste as dangerous as with a fission reactor? are they the same as with the fallout of an H bomb explostion?
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

    i think when the fuel cell is profected...that might be the next genoration of power for a locomitives.. ... with the EPA putting more and more restrictions on engin emistions... its only a matter of time befor someone trys to put a fuel cell and a locomotive together...
    i dont see the rail roads running out to string cattanary over thier main lines also... the cost would be astromoical... the cost to build the powerplants to make the power... cost to buy or convert locomotives over to electric only power... and just the cost of putting up the wires and suport structers and fusilitys would we way out of the rail roads bugets...now if the governement where to foot the bill..it might be differnt...but that will also never happen
    steam is gone for good....
    csx engineer

    CSX,
    I like the Fuel Cell idea they should do that

    DOGGY
  • QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

    CSX,
    Here is a link to Harrison Schmitt's bio which then links to info about UW's Fusion Technology Institute and related links.

    http://www.engr.wisc.edu/ep/faculty/schmitt_harrison.html#affils

    This portal can lead to far better answers to your questions than I could provide.

    tomtrain
    good deal..ill check it out on my off days when i have more time to read over the information..
    tanks
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
  • Diesel will remain king probably forever. The cost of electric railroads is too expensive. Who knows? Someday they might come out with super diesels that exceed 300 miles per hour!
  • I figure bio-diesel would be the likeliest fuel to be used in the near future. Followed by pure bio-fuel and eventually fuel cells. Diesel simply cannot be king forever. Just as with steam sooner or later it will no longer be economical.
  • bio fuel...thats a new one on me...whats that all about...share the details man
    csx engineer
    "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel