MAKING AUTOMOBILES + VEHICLES MOVE ON YOUR LAYOUT

[Anonymous]

My layout is still in the planning stages at this point, but one thing I know for certain is that I want to feature a lot of lighting and animation. [:)]

I want to devise a way to make automobiles/vehicles move around like the real things. I know Faller makes a system for this, but, while I like the logistics of it, I'm not too impressed with the selection of vehicles (all they seem to have is big trucks and vans--probably a function of the fact that each has its own independent motor, which seems inefficient in my opinion [:(]). Also, they are mega-expensive and only available in HO. I’m currently leaning toward N scale.

I've also seen an article in MR where the guy used a wire system. However, this involved cutting a rut down the middle of the roadway and I'm not crazy about that, either. [:(]

I was thinking possibly of some type of magnet-driven system. Click the following link for a diagram ->

http://hometown.aol.com/chadinark/myhomepage/layoutcarmover.jpg

Magnets are what Faller uses for guidance. One big advantage of this system would be that it would require no cuts/ruts in the road. Possibly I could mount a small magnet on the bottom of a car that could follow a magnet or magnetic strip that was in motion under the road (which would likely be a sheet of styrene or similar material). The magnets would be driven by a conveyor-belt type system. I could have slow speeds for city scenes and a somewhat faster conveyor for highway scenes. The cars could be made to move in a circuit around the layout, or I could have them go in a tunnel and reappear on the other side of the layout (after traveling upside-down under the layout).

The cars themselves might have working axles/rubber tires or maybe only the magnet would drag along the road and this way the tires might not need to ever actually touch the roadway (they would just be really close). Just some brainstorming...

One drawback of this system is that I also wanted to have illuminated headlights/taillights on the vehicles; this would probably be much easier in the wire-driven/rut-in-the-road system because power could be routed to each vehicle through the stem that connects to the vehicle).

Any other ideas? Has anyone figured out a way to make cars move? [?] I'd appreciate any suggestions. My layout is only in the planning stages at this point but I figure this is something I would want to do from the ground-up.

[DSchmitt]

I have seen static N scale vehicles with working lights using fiber optics. Don't see how it could be done with a moving vehicle since the light sourse was in the scenic base.

Have seen a magnet system used on an HO layout, don't know the details.

At least one N scaller has made a Hi Rail Maintenance truck that actually ran on the rails.

If you are successful might make a good magazine article.

[Anonymous]

Good topic i will check it often becuase i was thinking the same.

[nfmisso]

If you use LEDs for the light - possibly in combination with fiber optics so that you only have one LED per vehicle - battery power is a viable alternative for the lights.

[Anonymous]

Questions to consider:

How do you deal with railroad crossings? If the train is coming, the cars have to stop, but in a conveyor-belt system ALL the cars would stop, everywhere. Not realistic.

How do you deal with intersections? Again, if one direction has a red light, ALL the cars on that road would stop, not just the ones at the light. No traffic light means endless collisions.

How do you deal with the wear from running those cars on the roadway surface? It would take long before friction created an unrealistic scrape if a magnet touched the road; not a problem if the wheels roll and support the cars.

Would it not be distracting for just some of the cars to move while others on un-powered roadways sat still?

Just some idears.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

Questions to consider:

How do you deal with railroad crossings? If the train is coming, the cars have to stop, but in a conveyor-belt system ALL the cars would stop, everywhere. Not realistic.

How do you deal with intersections? Again, if one direction has a red light, ALL the cars on that road would stop, not just the ones at the light. No traffic light means endless collisions.

How do you deal with the wear from running those cars on the roadway surface? It would take long before friction created an unrealistic scrape if a magnet touched the road; not a problem if the wheels roll and support the cars.

Would it not be distracting for just some of the cars to move while others on un-powered roadways sat still?

Just some idears.

Very good points. Granted, this idea of mine is far from perfect. Otherwise I guess many folks would be doing it and we would probably have commercially-available vehicle systems.

I have considered most of the problems you mentioned. I wasn't planning on having movement everywhere. Probably only certain scenes in strategic locations on the layout (like a highway overpass, etc). I probably would have to avoid movement in traffic areas or use a system other than magnets..don't ask me what, though! [:D]

Faller's system actually has working intersection if I'm not mistaken.. but once again nothing for N scale and very expensive. But even with other systems like the wire / slit-in-the-road, you'd have the same problems. Absent some kind of super high-tech commercially-available nanotechnology that is probably 20 years away, I'm not sure how to make the cars move like the real things!! [8D]

True that all the cars moving at the same speed all the time seems unrealistic. Don't know how to fix that prob, either... It's basically the same problem as the intersection/downtown dilemma--making a lot of different cars move at different speeds (including stop) and different directions without colliding.

I also considered the wear problem. I was thinking that with the proper weathering *maybe* this could be alleviated somewhat. You're right though... not much of a trade off for not cutting a slice in the roads when you're going to end up with an ugly black line down the middle anyway. And while HO vehicles can accomodate moving axles/wheels, I don't know that it would be feasible in N.

I heard about someone else who used a system where essentially the cars where stationary and the whole road moved (the road was basically a conveyor belt). However this seems even less realistic to me! [:)]

Thanks for the ideas so far and let's please keep them coming. Surely there has to be a way!! If they can put a man on the moon...

[Anonymous]

Well in the march 1998 (i think - i'll check) there was an N scale fine scale layout (2mm:ft) in the Railway Modeller magazine in the UK.

It featured a branchline terminus where the gantry crane lifted freight from the open wagons and put it on either a farm tractor and trailer, a lorry or an articulated 'donkey' lorry ( small, three whelled tractor with trailers used around yards and towns).

these drove off throught the town and disappeared through the backdrop.

they were powered by a magnet on the bottom that was drawn along the road by a magnet under it that was mover by a home made monorail that was slung from the bottom of the road (the road base was PCB).

The advantage was that the lorry could be controlled properly but the disadvantage was that there was only one route and it wasn't automatic. it was like another train really.

This worked great in this setting but if you want loads of moving cars then it would not work as well.

I like the concept though. If i was modelling a little railway like this then i think i would try something similar except in OO or HO.

so basically it has been done with the realism that you are after but it might no be easliy scaled up to cope with the traffic levels you want.

Neil

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: I’m currently leaning toward N scale.

Electronics is another one of my hobbies. What is the Width, Length, and Height of an N scale car. I'll see what I can come up with.

[FJ and G]

Chadnark,

The link you provided is simple and elegant solution to the expensive Faller system.

I'd like to take it one step further. You could also get people and possibly animals to move on the layout with a mini verson of the system. The arms and legs could be segmented (like the old Lionel gateman) to swing on their own. A thin glass rod could hold the figures upright and it would appear that the humans/animals are really moving.

Your thought, and experiments on these things highly appreciated.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by neilmunck

Well in the march 1998 (i think - i'll check) there was an N scale fine scale layout (2mm:ft) in the Railway Modeller magazine in the UK. ...

Neil

Thanks Neil, I'll check on maybe getting a back issue.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Snake

QUOTE: I’m currently leaning toward N scale.

Electronics is another one of my hobbies. What is the Width, Length, and Height of an N scale car. I'll see what I can come up with.

Hmm .. I'm a little stumped since I don't have any at the moment (haven't started this project yet). They are 1:160 and approximately 1/2 the size of an HO vehicle. Guesstimating, I would say something like 3"4 in length, 3/8"-1/2" width, and 1/4"-5/16" in height. Those are guesses. I'll try to look at one and repost. Suffice to say, they are tiny!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Chadnark,

You could also get people and possibly animals to move on the layout with a mini verson of the system. The arms and legs could be segmented (like the old Lionel gateman) to swing on their own. A thin glass rod could hold the figures upright and it would appear that the humans/animals are really moving.

Thanks for your comments! [:D] Moving figures is something I considered as well. I guess the same problems are presented with all of the people moving at the same speed all the time. However, I don't think this anamoly would be as noticeable with people because "the prototype" (real people!) do actually tend to move closer to the same speed than vehicles do. It might be nifty in a downtown/city sidewalk scene to see people walking around. You could have two tracks for people to create the appearance of people moving both directions. For people in N scale the challenge seems even greater... might be feasible in HO, though.