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1950 PRR Layout Design & Operations ???

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  • Member since
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  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
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1950 PRR Layout Design & Operations ???
Posted by SpaceMouse on Saturday, June 9, 2007 10:09 PM

Here it is, my 30" x 96" shelf/switching layout from a single LDE. I took this from 1938 aerial photos, 1916,1930 & 1950 Sanborn maps, selectively compressed it some, and fudged a little to make it work.  

Operations

Notes 

1) Everything backs in from the wye about two miles to the left of the layout.

2) I'm assuming that staging will extend the leads.

Ops

Passenger Service comes once a day and the passenger track must be clear when it arrives.

Freight arrives once a day. A switcher will break down the train and build the train for pick up. The freight engine drops cars and picks up cars. The switcher moves them. I don't have a good place for the cabin. Theoretically, it would have been dropped off the layout.

There are two "sorts" of cars. One that is set out on the visible layout. One that is to the south of the layout. The industries that are south of town are a lumber yard, a tire manufacturing plant, a glass manufacturer, a brewery, etc. There are two switchers in the "yard." One switches the visible area, and the other takes the other sort to staging.

Outgoing trains are made up of outgoing shipments of both visible and staged industries.

What am I missing? What is implausible?  

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 2:04 PM

JUst in case someone jerks this back to the top, (it made page 3 with no comments,) I wanted to address the concerns some people had over in the Layout Forum. I posted it over there when I saw how fast it disappeared here. There are some good comments there.   

I'll start by saying that the track plan is strictly from the prototype. I wanted to keep that is much as possible to that plan. The only piece of track I added is I extended the siding along Stewart's Hardware to make a small runaround. Nowhere in the prototype was one provided. In fact, the only way an engine could make a runaround move was the one crossover you see and the point where the two tracks merged a quarter mile south.

http://www.vitaconnect.com/photos/IndianaMap01.jpg

So here are my fudges. The tractor supply is on the other side of an alley beyond the feed supply. The flour mill is on the other side of the alley from the produce supply. The grocery warehose was on the other side of the street just south of Stewart's Hardware.

The trackwork between the station and the freight station was present in 1950, but not used. However, the prototype had a quarter mile of dual track to sort and switch. I didn't have that kind of space so I needed to restore the old track.

Oh yeah, the engine house was on the lower of the three tracks not the upper.

Of course, the layout has compressed space.

The only way to turn the train was the wye. And since the photos I have of the era shows the trains backed in, I asuumed they all did. At least this why I am doing it this way on my layout.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 10, 2007 2:42 PM
Im posting here to mark this thread and put into my pile.
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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Sunday, June 10, 2007 4:03 PM

 SpaceMouse wrote:
What am I missing? What is implausible?
I don't think you are missing anything.  Since staging plays such a big part and since the all but one of the spurs are facing the same direction there isn't a whole lot of things to miss when operating the thing.   You  might want to add some industires that required a car to have "time on location" before they can be moved again.  That would limit some moves and add some operational interest.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:51 PM
 Gandy Dancer wrote:

 SpaceMouse wrote:
What am I missing? What is implausible?
I don't think you are missing anything.  Since staging plays such a big part and since the all but one of the spurs are facing the same direction there isn't a whole lot of things to miss when operating the thing.   You  might want to add some industires that required a car to have "time on location" before they can be moved again.  That would limit some moves and add some operational interest.

That's something I haven't thought of. I'll keep it in mind.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by WCfan on Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:16 PM
Maybe you could add stageing at the other end so The trains look like they go some where. I don't know what else would be wrong? Looks fine to me.
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, June 11, 2007 7:16 AM

 WCfan wrote:
Maybe you could add stageing at the other end so The trains look like they go some where. I don't know what else would be wrong? Looks fine to me.

Indiana was the end of the line for that branch.

Hey, WC, I'm going to be in your neck of the woods in a couple three weeks. My wife's family has a cottage in the North Woods.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, June 11, 2007 9:38 AM

Chip,

That looks like it'll be fun!

You need two locos.  One, get yourself a Bowser H9s 2-8-0.  Then, get a Stewart Baldwin diesel switcher.  Maybe get the diesel first so you can run it while you build the steam engine.

You could also consider a Bowser B6sb 0-6-0, but they tended to spend more time in the big yards.  Nevertheless, there were enough around you could get away with one.  The A5 0-4-0 didn't seem to stray much past Philly or Harrisburg.

For 1950, though, I think the H9s 2-8-0 would be the most accurate choice.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, June 11, 2007 9:43 AM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Chip,

That looks like it'll be fun!

You need two locos.  One, get yourself a Bowser H9s 2-8-0.  Then, get a Stewart Baldwin diesel switcher.  Maybe get the diesel first so you can run it while you build the steam engine.

You could also consider a Bowser B6sb 0-6-0, but they tended to spend more time in the big yards.  Nevertheless, there were enough around you could get away with one.  The A5 0-4-0 didn't seem to stray much past Philly or Harrisburg.

For 1950, though, I think the H9s 2-8-0 would be the most accurate choice.

But...but...

I am building the layout so I can run my S1's.

I have my son's Spectrum 2-8-0 set-up for Dixie that he is going to let me change to PRR. That's a stretch for him. Autistic kids hate change.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, June 11, 2007 10:02 AM
Chip,Actually that looks like a bailiwick for PRR's Baldwin switchers or the SW1s.I would not be surprise if a FM10-44 work that area as well..Of course in 1950 a H9 could work that area as well as a B6sa or B6sb.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Monday, June 11, 2007 10:16 AM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Chip,

That looks like it'll be fun!

You need two locos.  One, get yourself a Bowser H9s 2-8-0.  Then, get a Stewart Baldwin diesel switcher.  Maybe get the diesel first so you can run it while you build the steam engine.

You could also consider a Bowser B6sb 0-6-0, but they tended to spend more time in the big yards.  Nevertheless, there were enough around you could get away with one.  The A5 0-4-0 didn't seem to stray much past Philly or Harrisburg.

For 1950, though, I think the H9s 2-8-0 would be the most accurate choice.

The Old Dog would agree with the statement that two locomotives would be needed. But the second locomotive probably should be a 4-6-0 for passenger service

http://www.bowser-trains.com/holocos/g5/g5.htm

Or maybe

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-81421

Indiana, Pa was a little small to require it's own switcher.

For coal drags a 2-10-0 might have been used

http://www.bowser-trains.com/holocos/i1/i1.htm

Have fun

 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 11, 2007 10:19 AM
Dog, I think this 2-10-0 engine will be a tad BIG for this town LOL.
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Posted by exPalaceDog on Monday, June 11, 2007 10:39 AM

 Safety Valve wrote:
Dog, I think this 2-10-0 engine will be a tad BIG for this town LOL.

Probably true, but maybe not for the coal mines south of town. Apparently, there was a wye some distance before the station. The 2-10-0's would have turned there.

Have fun

 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, June 11, 2007 11:44 AM
I suspect passenger power would be a K4 or E3/E4 4-4-2 more then a G class..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, June 11, 2007 12:11 PM

Okay guys it's this way. At this point it is easier to change my year than to change my power. I have at this point:

2 - s1's

An E7

A 2-8-0

Dog, the Hoodlebug stopped running in 1940 in Indiana.

So guys, pick me a year.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, June 11, 2007 12:18 PM

The S1 and E7 still work for 1950, although E7s were frontline passenger power and probably would not have been on a branchline.

My only issue (and it's mine, not yours...  it's your layout and not mine!) is that the 2-8-0, if it's the Spectrum one, is a "foobie," in that it looks nothing like a PRR engine.  It's a wonderful machine; well-detailed, well running...  but has none of the characteristics of a Pennsy engine, from the center-smokebox headlight to radial-stay boiler to the steps connecting the running boards to the pilot to the square sand dome to the...  well, you get it.

But then, given the issue with your son, I think it's a good compromise.  But eventually you may want to augment that 2-8-0 with a PRR-prototype engine.  It'll just look more natural with your otherwise carefully-construced slice of the PRR.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Monday, June 11, 2007 1:03 PM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

Okay guys it's this way. At this point it is easier to change my year than to change my power. I have at this point:

2 - s1's

An E7

A 2-8-0

Dog, the Hoodlebug stopped running in 1940 in Indiana.

So guys, pick me a year.

What! We can't bend the calendar. Actually, if the Pennsy couldn't make money with a gas-electric in 1940 with a two man crew, that would pretty well kill passenger service on the line. Using an E7 with a full crew wouild be unlikily.

Maybe you could go forward to say 1970 and use the E7 as a freight engine after most of the passenger trains had been dropped on the mainline.

Maybe you could run an inspection train once in a long while.

Or how about a passenger special, say for the company picnic for one of the local business.

Have fun

 

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, June 11, 2007 1:11 PM

By 1970, that E7 would have been "PennCentralized."

I've never seen shots of PC E7s (there were very few remaining by then) in freight service, but hey, anything was possible on the Penn Central!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 11, 2007 1:29 PM
Im thinking of the D class just like the #1223 4-4-0 that is being kept in the PRR railroad museum after serving on the Strasburg Railroad. That engine was to me one of the best as it did it's job nicely and without jerking the train. I recall it used to haul about 5 wooden cars at about 20 mph or so with a little bit of stack talk at times.
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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, June 11, 2007 1:33 PM
By 1950 the two remaining D16sb class engines were working in the DELMARVA because of the light bridges and load restrictions.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, June 11, 2007 1:35 PM

Yeah, I figure passenger service died with the Hoodlebug. We're not much of a commuter town. Either you worked the mines or you didn't work. 60 years later, the mines are either closed or longwell--that means people aren't working. Many think the mines will re-open one day.

I'll probably keep the E7 in staging anyway--for the picnic. Everyone wants to come to Indiana for a picnic.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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