"Big Boy vs. Allegheny"; Those are fighting words!

[Fergmiester]

Good Question! but no. I read back through some of my original retorts and am of the opinion I was suffering form RR Block and was just "stirring the pot" to annoy those who wanted to be annoyed. The other issue is those who are UP fans are rather eletist and need to be put in their place. [:O]

Now that this pot is stirred once again it's unfortunate I will not be sticking around to watch the Fireworks as once again I have to sail again for parts unknown

[lupo]

Hi fergus! During autopsy of this dead [xx(] horse a question popped up:
does your disfunctional Bigboy have something to do with your preference of the [:p] "other" engine ?
[(-D][(-D]

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

I was trying to get the ball rolling again, as this was an intresting discusion. Nevermind. [:(]

Key word being "was". You can't flog a dead horse especially after the flies have had their fill. Yes this was a good topic but as you may or may not remember and if I'm not mistaken got out of hand and lead to mud slinging and sand storming resulting in some of us leaving the sand box.

Bottom line is we goota find something new to get the creative juices and the fun started again after all we all know the Allegheny was by far the better of the two[:D]

Round 2 anyone?

[Anonymous]

It's out of steam. I have done all the pulling I could on this topic what I say stands. Maybe some one else can throw in something else for us to chew on. But I thought this thread was rusting quietly in peace on one of the server's hard drives. =)

[Anonymous]

Well the PRR had longer engines than the Big Boys.[;)]

[AggroJones]

I was trying to get the ball rolling again, as this was an intresting discusion. Nevermind. [:(]

[mustanggt]

This topic is still alive?

[AggroJones]

I think the Big Boy is just a glorified Yellowstone with a better pilot truck! [:p] [;)] [X-)]

[Anonymous]

Dear HighIron

From what I have been able to gather is that some of the grades in ohio where .63%. My understandinding of grades tells me that this is not a big deal I wonder if this is a typo. I know that there was a grade in the Canadian Rockies that was 4% and that Selkirks (2-10-4) where used to move freight through this region.
Speaking of 2-10-4's Broadway is soon to release a C&O 2-10-4! Time to save!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

LCandMRR,

You mentioned the C and O 2-10-4 engines. These monsters were specifically ordered by C and O to run 170 loads of coal in Ohio where the terrain is demanding. I think that these engines performed magnificently both directions with a little assistance here and there. Grades experienced in Ohio is nowhere near the long fuel starving grades of the west and or the brutal frame busting grades of the eastern mountain ranges.

The large engines of the Big Boys and Etcetra including electrics will always be able to break a Texas Type engine when the going gets hard.

I will take a shot at the 70 mile and hour figure by reminding you that Coal is not a "Piority" freight. All that is needed is slow and steady supply in never ending trains. 15 miles and hour is just well suited to this. Now a mile of Fruit from California needs high speed with power across the barren wastes of Wyoming to get to the market in good condition and the UP's Big Boy fit the bill nicely.

Well said, Highiron. [^]

[Anonymous]

LCandMRR,

You mentioned the C and O 2-10-4 engines. These monsters were specifically ordered by C and O to run 170 loads of coal in Ohio where the terrain is demanding. I think that these engines performed magnificently both directions with a little assistance here and there. Grades experienced in Ohio is nowhere near the long fuel starving grades of the west and or the brutal frame busting grades of the eastern mountain ranges.

The large engines of the Big Boys and Etcetra including electrics will always be able to break a Texas Type engine when the going gets hard.

I will take a shot at the 70 mile and hour figure by reminding you that Coal is not a "Piority" freight. All that is needed is slow and steady supply in never ending trains. 15 miles and hour is just well suited to this. Now a mile of Fruit from California needs high speed with power across the barren wastes of Wyoming to get to the market in good condition and the UP's Big Boy fit the bill nicely.

[Anonymous]

Fergus,

I have no problems with your reply. I enjoy whatever people have to offer on this wonderful thread. I admit to being very stobbern in support of the "Alley" However, I will say that I do not yet know very much about steam in the mountains regions beyond northern california and west of Missoula yet. However I am too reading books and learning for instance that the Cab forward is valuable in keeping the crew alive in the long tunnels.

I believe there is something to learn everyday. Ty for your insightful post.

[Anonymous]

OK here we go on the N&W...yeah ok so they could do 70mph...but the N&W was a single track coal dragging railroad...how often did they see 70????

[Anonymous]

What about N&W A class 2-6-6-4? They do it all, up to 70 mph, I recall. And if you're talking about efficiency, straight eletrics beat all of them hands down. Why do you think the VGN or the PRR of the CMStP&P went that route? What about the C&O T-1 and the PRR copies? They were almost as strong, and two less cylinders to boot! That might have been the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Dear HighIron

Forgive me, as the last dig was just that a dig, now that I am in the amongst professionals I'll have to keep on track and be more circumspect. Your comment about the Cascade engines and I take it you meant those that worked the Allegheny and Appalachian ranges are not nearly as well documented. I have approximately 20+ books on North American Steam and the majority of them have pictures of the BB's working Sherman Hill and yes I wish I could have been there to witness this exhibition of steam supremacy. As for the Allegheny's, which numbered 60, the pictures found in most books are far and few between. As many have said different engines for different roles. All had a part in the History of Railroading. We should consider our selves lucky that we are able to dream the dream.

[Anonymous]

Fergus,

I have to say that where the BB's ran was not flat. It just takes 100 miles of climb to get just as high as say 3 miles in Western North Carolina.

I have not heard a word on this thread about the Cascade engines until now. As a former driver I found the terrin between Redding CA and over towards Missoula Mt pretty formidable. Especially Syskiyou and the Blue Mountain range in eastern Oregon.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

Hey Big Boy!

Look at the Specs!

Allegheny's rule, hands down

MY Rails or YOURS!!!!

MINE!!!!!!! (whatever "my rails or yours" means, lol)[;)]

Just admit it, your beat fair and square! Big Boys are flat land dwellers!!![^][^][^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

Hey Big Boy!

Look at the Specs!

Allegheny's rule, hands down

MY Rails or YOURS!!!!

MINE!!!!!!! (whatever "my rails or yours" means, lol)[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Johnnydash9

Hmmm....Big Boy or Allegheny....hmmm...how about this....BOTH OF THEM SUCK LOL

!!!!![:0][:0][:0][:0]!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Hmmm....Big Boy or Allegheny....hmmm...how about this....BOTH OF THEM SUCK LOL

Id take a DM&IR Yellowstone or a Clinchfield Challenger or a SP AC Series Cab Foreward anyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

I run the Microsoft Train Stimulator. I wonder if there is a way to download a Big boy and a Alley as well as a good route for them to run on. Perhaps I could try to time a run between the two.

You can download one at www.train-sim.com along with a Challenger and a FEF-3. They have tons more stuff, too!!!

[lupo]

BIG BOYS RULE!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: [i]
This question has been asked before and the answer the last time was "No!"

They will never be restored to operational condition simply because there is no turntable or shops left anywhere in the country that can accomodate it. Also remember BB's were used only along certain routes where the curvitures clearences trainsheds etc at the yards and shops were adequate for these monsters. Most places everywhere else could not accomodate them.

Translation: Allegheny;s are more versatile and adaptable. I'm quite sure an Allegheny could haul a Mile of fruit without any trouble, question is can a BB haul an Allegheny's worth of coal?

We will never know.[:D][:D][:D][^]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddechamp71

Today my question is: will we ever have the chance to see one day a Big Boy return to rails after having been restaured?

This question has been asked before and the answer the last time was "No!"

They will never be restored to operational condition simply because there is no turntable or shops left anywhere in the country that can accomodate it. Also remember BB's were used only along certain routes where the curvitures clearences trainsheds etc at the yards and shops were adequate for these monsters. Most places everywhere else could not accomodate them.

[vsmith]

Sorry guys but Ive seen movies of both these behemoths, and between an Allegheny slugging a coal trian along at 15 mph -vs- a Big Boy hauling a mile long frieght at 70 mph...

....the BIG BOY wins HANDS DOWN!!!!

That was a mighty, mighty impressive scene once upon a time to see a loco THAT BIG giving express trains a run for thier money! now imagine that train double headed with 2 BB's moving the bacon at 60 mph.

[Anonymous]

ddechamp71,

If you follow the embedded links to the "Bigboy" on the Alley's Web page which I posted link to earlier you will eventually find your way to most if not all the Bigboys in the USA and prospects for restoration.

Good Luck and hope you find what you are looking for.

Lee

[ddechamp71]

Today my question is: will we ever have the chance to see one day a Big Boy return to rails after having been restaured?

[Anonymous]

I run the Microsoft Train Stimulator. I wonder if there is a way to download a Big boy and a Alley as well as a good route for them to run on. Perhaps I could try to time a run between the two.

[Anonymous]

AggroJones,

The 2-8-8-2's were indeed fine engines but the C and O found them to be Shop Hogs and not up to the task. They were about 20 years old by the time the 2-6-6-6's were ordered.

But as stated before, the 2-8-8-2 Y6's may be the finest drag engine there was.